Which is More Significant: Finishing 3rd in the West or the Playoff Sweep?

[Gronk Brady]

Great post.




Yeah. My $42.50 denial for my seats will show PA!!!

You cant be serious with that. For every person not going ot a game, there will be another wanting to go. This is almost Gronk worthy.

If I yell at the wall long enough, it wont be a wall anymore....

Yeah right....

Some teams actually value the opinion of their fans

Masai: “The fans are always on my mind, but they don’t have the information that we have and that sometimes makes it hard. If we didn’t do anything, I think everybody would by (mad). ‘It’s the same team ... will only lose in the playoffs again would be the narrative.’”

vs.

Neil: "But this idea that (we need) sweeping changes. Where were all these people that wanted sweeping changes 10 days ago? Where were they? They were the ones bouncing off the walls in the Moda Center when we got the third seed for the first time since 1999-00... Relative to people back in December who were complaining that we weren't going to make the playoffs and we were in purgatory because we weren't going to make the playoffs and we weren't going to pick high enough. Right? That was the rallying cry. Then it was, 'Oh my God. They're going to blow the third seed because they're going to lose all these games. They're not even going to get home court advantage.' They overreacted to that.”

 

[Orion Bailey]

.

Hey!! You are back!!!. Thanks for ending the constant shove of your opinion on us. Welcome back. Lets talk Ball!!!

 

[Gronk Brady]

Any GM who pays the least little bit of attention to what fans think should be done with respect to actual moves by the team ought to be fired on the spot. Jeez, what a stupid notion.

Well Toronto has been better than Blazers so I guess it’s not so stupid.

 

[e_blazer]

Well Toronto has been better than Blazers so I guess it’s not so stupid.

And you seriously think that's because management has been paying attention to what fans think should be done?

 

[Orion Bailey]

Some teams actually value the opinion of their fans

Masai: “The fans are always on my mind, but they don’t have the information that we have and that sometimes makes it hard. If we didn’t do anything, I think everybody would by (mad). ‘It’s the same team ... will only lose in the playoffs again would be the narrative.’”

vs.

Neil: "But this idea that (we need) sweeping changes. Where were all these people that wanted sweeping changes 10 days ago? Where were they? They were the ones bouncing off the walls in the Moda Center when we got the third seed for the first time since 1999-00... Relative to people back in December who were complaining that we weren't going to make the playoffs and we were in purgatory because we weren't going to make the playoffs and we weren't going to pick high enough. Right? That was the rallying cry. Then it was, 'Oh my God. They're going to blow the third seed because they're going to lose all these games. They're not even going to get home court advantage.' They overreacted to that.”

Its one thing to value, its another to understand that fans dont have all the inside info and to not get caught up in who they want on the team.

Its one thing to value the fans thoughts and keep them in your mind. Its another to cater to the fans, which in my opinion would be a very bad move. Fans know about as much as owners... just enough to get the team into real trouble.
Otherwise there is a reason there are people in certain position in every organization that get [aid big bucks to analyze the data or info we do NOT have... thus coming to a more educated decision/opinion than any fan could ever have.

 

[riverman]

Masai: “The fans are always on my mind,

firing the coach of the year and trading the most popular player to ever play there who wanted to stay for his entire career for a one year rental....sure...the fans were NOT happy about it and Masai could give a shit

 

[Mediocre Man]

Great post.




Yeah. My $42.50 denial for my seats will show PA!!!

You cant be serious with that. For every person not going ot a game, there will be another wanting to go. This is almost Gronk worthy.

If I yell at the wall long enough, it wont be a wall anymore....

Yeah right....

We agree. That's my point as well. Nothing will change because so many fans are cool with mediocrity.

Look at the the era before Aldridge and Roy. 16k came to the games, so they made a change. Now, fans will come because guys are nice and they'll do ok

 

[Gronk Brady]

Its one thing to value, its another to understand that fans dont have all the inside info and to not get caught up in who they want on the team.

Its one thing to value the fans thoughts and keep them in your mind. Its another to cater to the fans, which in my opinion would be a very bad move. Fans know about as much as owners... just enough to get the team into real trouble.
Otherwise there is a reason there are people in certain position in every organization that get [aid big bucks to analyze the data or info we do NOT have... thus coming to a more educated decision/opinion than any fan could ever have.

It’s not about the fans dictating every individual move... it’s about a GM having respect for the fans opinion of the product on a higher level... making a change to give them something different to watch, to give hope... not doing the exact same thing every year and expecting different results. And also not insulting the fans with condescending angry interviews.

 

[riverman]

And also not insulting the fans with condescending angry interviews.

don't confuse the fans with Jason Quick and Dwight Jaynes.....

 

[BonesJones]

Nope. I didn't notice that. If it happened, I don't agree with it. As long as Aminu and Harkless are still on the starting roster, my view is that there's still rebuilding to be done.

Y'all define rebuilding in weird ways. Is Golden State rebuilding since they could improve this off-season too? It seems like some view "rebuilding" and "improving the roster" as the same thing.

 

[BonesJones]

It’s not about the fans dictating every individual move... it’s about a GM having respect for the fans opinion of the product on a higher level... making a change to give them something different to watch, to give hope... not doing the exact same thing every year and expecting different results. And also not insulting the fans with condescending angry interviews.

See if you just posted calmly like this without the repetitiveness, it'd be great, because this echos my thoughts exactly.

 

[H.C.]

We agree. That's my point as well. Nothing will change because so many fans are cool with mediocrity.

Look at the the era before Aldridge and Roy. 16k came to the games, so they made a change. Now, fans will come because guys are nice and they'll do ok

This is exactly the point which should be made.
At the end of the day it's about making $. You don't like it? Watch another sport.
Yes they'd like to win a ring. But when it's shown in the past that fans stop paying for a shitty product. And it's also shown in the present(philly) that fans won't pay to watch a shitty product.
This trading away everyone of value and tanking isn't good business strategy.

 

[oldmangrouch]

Those 9 teams that won fewer than 29 regular season games won the exact same amount of playoff games as the Blazers... ZERO... and they added a lottery pick to their roster while Blazers added Seth Curry

Ouch!

But you ain't wrong.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Y'all define rebuilding in weird ways. Is Golden State rebuilding since they could improve this off-season too? It seems like some view "rebuilding" and "improving the roster" as the same thing.

I think some also confuse rebuilding and building. In order to rebuild, you tear it down to the ground and start over. You tank, you win 15 - 20 games for a couple years. You suck deliberately in hope of getting a high lottery pick and then hope that pick, and more, pan out and don't bolt for greener pastures at the first opportunity.

Thanks to getting Lillard with New Jersey's pick, POR never really torn it down to the ground, like they did back in 2004. I suppose you could call what happened in 2015-16 something of a rebuild, but it really wasn't. We already had our franchise player by then. So, everything sense has been a effort to build around him. Some of it good (drafting C.J. and trading for Nurk). Some of it has been disastrous (the summer of 2016), but to me, we're still building. Trying to find the right pieces to supplement Dame. I think Nurk is one of those pieces. C.J. may be another, or he may be someone we trade for a missing piece. I don't think we'll see an actual tear it down to the ground rebuild in POR as long as Damian Lillard is wearing a Blazers uniform.

BNM

 

[riverman]

you can't compare a championships dynasty like GS to other teams in the league....players will ring chase to get there and play for nothing...we have been decent at finding former high picks that are now 2 year vets that are buried on some teams bench and developing them.or the draft..that seems to be the way around being a non destination for free agents so far..sometimes it pays off...seems to be the game plan over the last few seasons

 

[e_blazer]

Y'all define rebuilding in weird ways. Is Golden State rebuilding since they could improve this off-season too? It seems like some view "rebuilding" and "improving the roster" as the same thing.

To me, the rebuild isn't done until you've got your core three or four players set. The Warriors have their main guys and they switch out the components of the supporting cast as necessary each year. The Blazers have Dame and CJ as franchise cornerstones. Maybe Nurk and/or Collins become members of the club, but they're not there yet as steady contributors on a winning team. Aminu and Harkless weren't picked up as anything more than stopgap pieces to fill in while Olshey looked for better players at those spots.

 

[Orion Bailey]

We agree. That's my point as well. Nothing will change because so many fans are cool with mediocrity.

Look at the the era before Aldridge and Roy. 16k came to the games, so they made a change. Now, fans will come because guys are nice and they'll do ok

I think your breakdown of fans going to games= fans cool with mediocrity, is the issue.

One can still go to games, support the players and get enjoyment out of it while still wanting more and bot being content.

As a season ticket holder myself i get annoyed when people say, dont go to the games, it will show them and they will change.

As if my going or not going actually has a major influence.
This is a single sport town and i love sports and i have loved the blazers since i was in highschool watching clyde and gang.

One thing i have learned is all teams change. Its inevitable and for you to want me to give up my tickets so they will change, is laughable at best.
They will change eventually whether i do or dont. Players dont last forever.
Im in this for the long haul and not interested in being a bandwagon fan and only wanting to go to the games when they are winning. Regardless of whether i trust in management or not.

Everything evolves man. I just have patience enoug to wait it out without tossing in the towel.. or tickets in this case.

 

[BonesJones]

To me, the rebuild isn't done until you've got your core three or four players set. The Warriors have their main guys and they switch out the components of the supporting cast as necessary each year. The Blazers have Dame and CJ as franchise cornerstones. Maybe Nurk and/or Collins become members of the club, but they're not there yet as steady contributors on a winning team. Aminu and Harkless weren't picked up as anything more than stopgap pieces to fill in while Olshey looked for better players at those spots.

We have our core 3 players set... Nurkic is definitely a cornerstone of the franchise. He IS our defense. Nurkic definitely contributes to our winning, as a top rim protector in the league and average offensive player (who was very good the 2nd half of the season averaging 20pts per 36 on 55% shooting). Going from 24th to 8th in defense was due primarily to Nurkic, so I don't see how you say he's not a steady contributor to us winning yet.

Maybe that's why we have a different opinion. Nurkic is definitely a part of the core. We have our core 3. Anything we do is adding to the foundation and core, not rebuilding it. We could alter it by trading CJ for a Butler-type, but that wouldn't be a rebuilding move, that would be trying to improve what's already established. We could trade CJ for prospects and picks, which would be a rebuilding move, but I don't see that happening, as we're not in rebuild mode. We're a "Buyer" now.

 

[BonesJones]

I think your breakdown of fans going to games= fans cool with mediocrity, is the issue.

One can still go to games, support the players and get enjoyment out of it while still wanting more and bot being content.

As a season ticket holder myself i get annoyed when people say, dont go to the games, it will show them and they will change.

As if my going or not going actually has a major influence.
This is a single sport town and i love sports and i have loved the blazers since i was in highschool watching clyde and gang.

One thing i have learned is all teams change. Its inevitable and for you to want me to give up my tickets so they will change, is laughable at best.
They will change eventually whether i do or dont. Players dont last forever.
Im in this for the long haul and not interested in being a bandwagon fan and only wanting to go to the games when they are winning. Regardless of whether i trust in management or not.

Everything evolves man. I just have patience enoug to wait it out without tossing in the towel.. or tickets in this case.

A good GM wouldn't make the fans boycott going to games in order to make the changes that are needed...

 

[hoopsjock]

Ouch!

But you ain't wrong.

Technically he is wrong because one of the nine teams was the Nets and they didn't have their pick, lol.

 

[tester551]

This is exactly the point which should be made.
At the end of the day it's about making $. You don't like it? Watch another sport.
Yes they'd like to win a ring. But when it's shown in the past that fans stop paying for a shitty product. And it's also shown in the present(philly) that fans won't pay to watch a shitty product.
This trading away everyone of value and tanking isn't good business strategy.

Sometimes it's worth 4-5 years of pain for the eventual payoff. Granted Philly has a long ways to go, but they'll be contenders in a year or two

 

[Orion Bailey]

A good GM wouldn't make the fans boycott going to games in order to make the changes that are needed...

A gm doesnt make a fan do anything. We all have a choice.
I get peoples frustration with him and Stotts at times, but ive been to playoff games watching my favorite team every year ive been a ticketholder.
Ive also been a mariners fan since the edgar days. Do you know how many years in the last decade they have had post season games?
0

Im not content with the blazers but im also not willing to just jump ship because it aint going right. Its going alot better than it used to and it could be alot worse in my opinion.

Content? No.
Ready to turn my back on the blazers? No

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

A gm doesnt make a fan do anything. We all have a choice.
I get peoples frustration with him and Stotts at times, but ive been to playoff games watching my favorite team every year ive been a ticketholder.
Ive also been a mariners fan since the edgar days. Do you know how many years in the last decade they have had post season games?
0

Im not content with the blazers but im also not willing to just jump ship because it aint going right. Its going alot better than it used to and it could be alot worse in my opinion.

Content? No.
Ready to turn my back on the blazers? No

I think the closest I came to the giving up on the NBA and the Blazers was last January, the Blazers has been mediocre, the NBA has many flaws, GS seems so far away right now. I had to just come to that decision I was going to root for the Blazers no matter what and I just love basketball in general so here I am. It was really the first time I remember really dwelling on the is this what I want to do with my “free” time line of thinking.

I think what we have right now is more than Stotts, or NO, or the NBA and super teams, and bad officiating. It’s just at that point where all those things come together and here we are, Blazer fans are far from the only frustrated fan base.

 

[riverman]

The only year I was disgruntled and didn't enjoy anything about the season was the lockout season when Roy and Oden went down, Nate got fired, we had no GM and Kaleb Canales tried to use Jamal as a pt guard because fat Felton couldn't see his feet and dribbled off them all the time...Luke Babbitt was cheered so fans could get a chalupa after the game....most unenjoyable season in all my decades as a fan.....in perspective this version of the Blazers is a joy to watch..

 

[PtldPlatypus]

It’s not about the fans dictating every individual move... it’s about a GM having respect for the fans opinion of the product on a higher level... making a change to give them something different to watch, to give hope... not doing the exact same thing every year and expecting different results. And also not insulting the fans with condescending angry interviews.

So basically, if a GM thinks the fans are clueless, he will run the team in such a way for it to be good enough for clueless fans. But if he's respects the fans and their understanding of the game, then he will be more likely to hold himself to the higher standard to which he would expect the fans to hold him, and run the team accordingly.

That about right?

 

[tester551]

A gm doesnt make a fan do anything. We all have a choice.
I get peoples frustration with him and Stotts at times, but ive been to playoff games watching my favorite team every year ive been a ticketholder.
Ive also been a mariners fan since the edgar days. Do you know how many years in the last decade they have had post season games?
0

Im not content with the blazers but im also not willing to just jump ship because it aint going right. Its going alot better than it used to and it could be alot worse in my opinion.

Content? No.
Ready to turn my back on the blazers? No

Not exactly comparing apples to apples with the MLB and NBA post seasons.

In the MLB only 8 teams play in a post-season series, while 16 do in the NBA. To be comparable, the Blazers would have to make it to the second round (which I realize they have in the not too distant past).

 

[riverman]

I honestly think that we got a lot of shooters to be able to win games without playing our starters into the ground early in the season...having 12 guys who can keep a lead on the court instead of 4 guys for a whole game....Dame and CJ won't have to score 50 pts a game to win. This is a big advantage...we play well after the allstar break most years and stumble early ….if we win early and use the depth, we'll be in better shape when the playoffs come. After Feb we trim down to a 9 or 10 man rotation. Our starters are always leading the league in miles on the court. Ball movement and improved assist numbers will be important.

 

[oldmangrouch]

So basically, if a GM thinks the fans are clueless, he will run the team in such a way for it to be good enough for clueless fans. But if he's respects the fans and their understanding of the game, then he will be more likely to hold himself to the higher standard to which he would expect the fans to hold him, and run the team accordingly.

That about right?

The world is full of people who approach their job with the attitude that they are going to do just enough to get by. If a GM believes that alienating the fans will cost him his job, he will behave differently from a GM who thinks he can get away with treating the fans like mushrooms. It's just human nature - no need to over-think it.

 

[Orion Bailey]

Not exactly comparing apples to apples with the MLB and NBA post seasons.

In the MLB only 8 teams play in a post-season series, while 16 do in the NBA. To be comparable, the Blazers would have to make it to the second round (which I realize they have in the not too distant past).

I think the mriners have the longest post season deought i nthe majors eight now though.

All im saying is it could be much worse.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NBA_franchise_post-season_droughts

 

[TBpup]

Regarding the OP, I would say the sweep is more indicative. Finishing 3rd came along with being 3 games away from missing the Playoffs so it's not quite the accomplishment it might be in other years where there was a definitive difference between #3 and #8.