Which Starting Backcourt Would You Rather Have?

[BLAZER PROPHET]

ABM & I are at the beach for a few days. On the drive down we talked about women & Blazers. We disagree about whether or not we should trade away Batum if it means getting Rondo or Parker. I think we need to keep talent we have (aka Batum & LAM) and he thinks we need to trade Batum if it means gaining Rondo or Parker. So our debate leads us to the question- Which starting backcourt would rather have:

Rondo or Parker & Matthews

or

Brooks & Batum

Me, I'll take Brooks and Batum as I think it gives us above average talent at both positions and improves our overall team talent. ABM thinks a Rondo or Parker upgrades us so much that Batum is expendable.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

Rondo and Matthews for sure. Parker shouldn't even be in this conversation.

I wouldn't trade Batum for Rondo though.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

I wouldn't trade Batum for Rondo though.

I think it's an impossibility we get Rondo without giving up Batum.

 

[B-Roy]

ABM & I are at the beach for a few days. On the drive down we talked about women & Blazers. We disagree about whether or not we should trade away Batum if it means getting Rondo or Parker.

Did you agree on HCP's wife at least?

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

Rondo and Williams

...eventually

 

[Nikolokolus]

I think this team is probably several years away from being in any kind of position to contend ... adding aging players like Parker or a guy who will be at the tail end of his prime in Rondo when the team might finally get back to being competitive isn't going to pay nearly the dividends that people think they will.

 

[RoyToy]

Rondo and Matthews for sure. Parker shouldn't even be in this conversation.

I wouldn't trade Batum for Rondo though.

Of course not. Batum is the future and can do no wrong.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

Did you agree on HCP's wife at least?

We were wondering if she likes to be two holed.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

Rondo and Williams

...eventually

Oh to dream the impossible dream...

 

[Nikolokolus]

Of course not. Batum is the future and can do no wrong.

It's good to see you coming around.

 

[RoyToy]

Something like that

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

Of course not. Batum is the future and can do no wrong.

I think Batum is/will be an above average SG and is very much worth keeping.

 

[RoyToy]

I think Batum is/will be an above average SG and is very much worth keeping.

Sure he's worth keeping

He's not worth keeping if you can get Rondo for him, though. That's just silly.

 

[MickZagger]

I think this team is probably several years away from being in any kind of position to contend ... adding aging players like Parker or a guy who will be at the tail end of his prime in Rondo when the team might finally get back to being competitive isn't going to pay nearly the dividends that people think they will.

I think this team is one solid PG and a backup big away from contending.

 

[MickZagger]

Batum has PER of 19.7 right now. The highest PER Rondo has ever had was 2 years ago at 19.1

Rondo's had the luxury of having 3 future HOF'ers around him his entire career. I just don't think he'll be the distributor he is in Boston if he came to Portland with incosistent shooters around him. It wouldn't take long before he and Nate get into it. I'm not as high on Rondo as most.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

Sure he's worth keeping

He's not worth keeping if you can get Rondo for him, though. That's just silly.

I disagree.

I mean, I get the fact PG is a critical position and Rondo is a very good (but not elite) PG. But our talent level is so incredibly low that I think it's imperative we keep Batum as he & LAM are our best two players. Sure, we improve as a team with that trade, but not by very much. We lose a B- player and gain a B+ one. If we add Brooks (as an example) we keep the B- player and add another B- player. Or, we add Rondo (B+) and start Matthews as a C- or D+ player. I just don't see the overall team improvement.

 

[MickZagger]

I like the Brooks idea. Short-term of course.

 

[RoyToy]

I disagree.

I mean, I get the fact PG is a critical position and Rondo is a very good (but not elite) PG. But our talent level is so incredibly low that I think it's imperative we keep Batum as he & LAM are our best two players. Sure, we improve as a team with that trade, but not by very much. We lose a B- player and gain a B+ one. If we add Brooks (as an example) we keep the B- player and add another B- player. Or, we add Rondo (B+) and start Matthews as a C- or D+ player. I just don't see the overall team improvement.

You trade a SF for a better player that is a PG. I mean this just seems like common sense to me. A top 5 PG, too.

Rondo is an all-star and has been the floor general for teams that have made it to the finals and gone deep into the playoffs. He's tough. He played a series with a bad dislocated shoulder. He's a pass first PG, a tough defender and a 1man fastbreak. If he were playing in a different, higher-paced system his numbers would be even more impressive. Instead he plays with a bunch of old guys that play at a snail's pace. There a few players like him in the league.

That is not Batum. He's a nice SF who does some nice things, but overall his impact on the game isn't as big as Rondo's is. That isn't hard to see imo.

Easy trade for me to do. Too bad Boston would never go for it.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

That is not Batum. He's a nice SF who does some nice things, but overall his impact on the game isn't as big as Rondo's is. That isn't hard to see imo.

Oh I agree.

My point is that we have a near lack of talented players. Because of that it is more important to add talented players and increase the number of talented players as opposed to maintaining the same amount of talented players- even if the total overall talent of those two only players increases a bit.

 

[RoyToy]

Star talent wins in the NBA - not a collection of good talent. The more true difference makers you have the better. Rondo is more or less one of those players. Not quite on the level of the true elite players, but he's considerably closer to that than Batum. Rondo can make everyone on the team better. Batum not so much. That's the main reason why having an elite PG is more desirable than a nice SF.

 

[JfizzleBlazer]

Rondo and Williams

...eventually

Two guys who seem to be at their best driving to the hoop! What a great combo!

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

Star talent wins in the NBA - not a collection of good talent. The more true difference makers you have the better. Rondo is more or less one of those players. Not quite on the level of the true elite players, but he's considerably closer to that than Batum. Rondo can make everyone on the team better. Batum not so much. That's the main reason why having an elite PG is more desirable than a nice SF.

I sort of agree.

But we're not in a position to accrue enough star players to be a title contending team. We're just not. But teams have been very successful with a good collection ot talented players (this year's Philly team readily comes to mind). So I see our climb back to being a good team as a process that begins with collecting talented players, then making moves to acquire stars (if we can). With as little talent as we have, we need more talented players.

Let me put it this way. By adding Rondo and losing Batum (assuming all else that may happen like Felton leaving, who may retire or who we may draft...) we probably don't add more than 2 or 3 wins. But I think if we add a better than average PG (like a Brooks as an example) and keep Batum we add 5-7 wins because we have more positions covered with talent.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Star talent wins in the NBA - not a collection of good talent. The more true difference makers you have the better. Rondo is more or less one of those players. Not quite on the level of the true elite players, but he's considerably closer to that than Batum. Rondo can make everyone on the team better. Batum not so much. That's the main reason why having an elite PG is more desirable than a nice SF.

Nobody is questioning his talent (except free throws and shooting) it's his head that has people worried. There is a reason Boston is looking to get rid of him ... and it's not because Doc Rivers and Danny Ainge are stupid.

 

[RR7]

I think this team is probably several years away from being in any kind of position to contend ... adding aging players like Parker or a guy who will be at the tail end of his prime in Rondo when the team might finally get back to being competitive isn't going to pay nearly the dividends that people think they will.

he's 26 years old. Again, if that's the thinking, might as well move aldridge as well. We can "get back to being competitive" by increasing the talent level on the team, not just looking to draft 12 year olds who might be here when you think we may or may not potentially be ready to compete for half a season before scrapping that idea.

 

[Nikolokolus]

he's 26 years old. Again, if that's the thinking, might as well move aldridge as well. We can "get back to being competitive" by increasing the talent level on the team, not just looking to draft 12 year olds who might be here when you think we may or may not potentially be ready to compete for half a season before scrapping that idea.

To hell with 12 year olds, I want 10 year old prospects in fourth grade. And yes, I would consider moving Aldridge if the right deal came along a year or two from now when his contract is close to expiring and (if) the team isn't close.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

Star talent wins in the NBA - not a collection of good talent. The more true difference makers you have the better. Rondo is more or less one of those players. Not quite on the level of the true elite players, but he's considerably closer to that than Batum. Rondo can make everyone on the team better. Batum not so much. That's the main reason why having an elite PG is more desirable than a nice SF.

BTW, I've greatly enjoyed the discussion. It's a breath of fresh air around here to really have a good and clean exchange of views.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

To hell with 12 year olds, I want 10 year old prospects in fourth grade. And yes, I would consider moving Aldridge if the right deal came along a year or two from now when his contract is close to expiring and (if) the team isn't close.

Somehow, reading your post while watching your avatar was very appropriate.

 

[MARIS61]

If you trade Batum, breaking even is the best you can hope for.

If you want a title, you get Nash.

If you've enjoyed this ten-year "rebuild" and haven't learned from the mistake then by all means trade experienced talent for youth. Again.

 

[MARIS61]

My expectation is we'll get Ridnour.

Where is Bob Whitsett?

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

My preferred backcourt is Deron Williams and Batum. The only way to do this is to include a third team and try to get some young assets back for Gerald Wallace and/or Crawford and/or Camby to give to Jersey. Then we can say to Williams; we have a core of you, Aldridge and Batum, with Mathews as a good rotation player, and try to get him to sign with us. The team management would have to have everything set up to go at the deadline in case Howard doesn't go to New Jersey.
I much prefer Deron Williams over Nash, Parker or Rondo. He's only 27, great distributor, good driver and good three point shooter and works hard. Also shoots free throws at a very good rate (sorry, Rondo).