Which to eat: a rotten pear or a rotten plum?

[Dumpy]

Ethics is why or why not to vote for either party based upon your criteria (the one not in control of congress).

yes, ghoti, you used the phrase "vote for a party" instead of "vote for the presidency," and so I took it from there.

 

[Dumpy]

Explain to me why I should believe any of these people bring an unbiased eye to what they do

http://www.citizensforethics.org/about/staff

For starters, the Executive Director is listed as working for 3 different dems in congress. Secondly, the website that you linked to is named after a former republican congressman (Beyond DeLay). Thirdly, and this really bugs me, that website provides no direct link to who CREW is. Finally, the only link to CREW is a SUPPORT CREW button at the bottom of every page. Guess what, that link goes to a CREW page on the site democracyinaction.org which when you view the homepage says democracy in action, wiring the progressive movement.

All I'm seeing is Dick Vitale and Billy Packer telling me how great the ACC is

I guess you have to trust me on this. If you have any questions, feel free to PM me.

 

[Dumpy]

The House ethics committee is the one committee where the party in control doesn't have the votes to control the committee. For obvious reasons.

Occam's Razor. Maybe the Bush Administration is actually doing the right thing and pursuing crimes committed by either party.

again, I don't recall the details, but I believe the person who has explained it to me (several times).

 

[cpawfan]

I guess you have to trust me on this. If you have any questions, feel free to PM me.

The Chief Council of the group formerly worked as Deputy Chief of the Enforcement Bureau at the Federal Communications Commission and before that for the Civil Division of the Department of Justice.

I trust neither of those government agencies to serve the people's best interest.

CREW looks, acts and smells like a progressive policy group.

 

[ghoti]

Ethics is why or why not to vote for either party based upon your criteria (the one not in control of congress).

How would one determine which party is more ethical? That seems impossible to me.

I'm from NJ. The best Governors by far have been Republicans. Both parties are irredeemably corrupt, but there are always more Democrats in office.

 

[Denny Crane]

I guess you have to trust me on this. If you have any questions, feel free to PM me.

: politician : =

 

[Dumpy]

The Chief Council of the group formerly worked as Deputy Chief of the Enforcement Bureau at the Federal Communications Commission and before that for the Civil Division of the Department of Justice.

I trust neither of those government agencies to serve the people's best interest.

CREW looks, acts and smells like a progressive policy group.

trust me, you are very wrong.

 

[cpawfan]

trust me, you are very wrong.

Wrong about what?

I'm sure there are people that are close to Sarah Palin that believe she is very qualified to be VP and would tell you to trust them that you are wrong.

 

[Dumpy]

Wrong about what?

I'm sure there are people that are close to Sarah Palin that believe she is very qualified to be VP and would tell you to trust them that you are wrong.

touche. But perhaps they wouldn't be hesitant to explain why on a very public internet bulletin board, which I am.

 

[Denny Crane]

FWIW, I'd prefer all our elected officials had the qualifications that Palin has. That is, I'd prefer a government by people who are ordinary citizens vs. career politicians.

 

[huevonkiller]

FWIW, I'd prefer all our elected officials had the qualifications that Palin has. That is, I'd prefer a government by people who are ordinary citizens vs. career politicians.

Absolutely not in my opinion. It varies for me...

 

[Dumpy]

FWIW, I'd prefer all our elected officials had the qualifications that Palin has. That is, I'd prefer a government by people who are ordinary citizens vs. career politicians.

To a certain extent. Do you support the idea of term limits in congress?

 

[Denny Crane]

To a certain extent. Do you support the idea of term limits in congress?

Absolutely.

People would argue that it keeps the really good politicians from keeping their jobs forever. I'd argue that a really good politician can serve in many offices over a career.

 

[Denny Crane]

Absolutely not in my opinion. It varies for me...

In what way are you a libertarian?

 

[huevonkiller]

In what way are you a libertarian?

In the ways that seem to piss you off I guess. :]

 

[Dumpy]

Absolutely.

People would argue that it keeps the really good politicians from keeping their jobs forever. I'd argue that a really good politician can serve in many offices over a career.

yes, you can be a public servant without being a member of congress.

However, it is certainly true that you get better at doing the job the longer you serve (to a certain point; there are cetainly diminishing returns). Many committes deal with very complex issues that require a lot of briefing and training. Depending on the length of the term limit, you may be wasting alot of gained experience.

 

[Denny Crane]

yes, you can be a public servant without being a member of congress.

However, it is certainly true that you get better at doing the job the longer you serve (to a certain point; there are cetainly diminishing returns). Many committes deal with very complex issues that require a lot of briefing and training. Depending on the length of the term limit, you may be wasting alot of gained experience.

They don't require squat.

Look at the committee assignments Obama got.

The big elephant in the room is the staffers, who really run the show. They'd work for one guy for 2 terms, then work for the next guy who got the same assignments.

 

[Dumpy]

They don't require squat.

Look at the committee assignments Obama got.

The big elephant in the room is the staffers, who really run the show. They'd work for one guy for 2 terms, then work for the next guy who got the same assignments.

I am just reciting the argument. Yes, the staffers certainly fill a large role.

 

[MikeDC]

yes, you can be a public servant without being a member of congress.

However, it is certainly true that you get better at doing the job the longer you serve (to a certain point; there are cetainly diminishing returns). Many committes deal with very complex issues that require a lot of briefing and training. Depending on the length of the term limit, you may be wasting alot of gained experience.

If you're really a conservative/libertarian, then this is, in and of itself, a reason to support term limits. I think the argument would go that the government shouldn't be making all sorts of overly complex decisions in the first place.

And by the way, your CREW thing is funny

And...

I am just reciting the argument. Yes, the staffers certainly fill a large role.

Heaven forbid we actually make a sincere attempt to argue what we actually believe!

Says he's a libertarian

MikeDC says he's the 5th Beetle.

 

[Real]

How would one determine which party is more ethical? That seems impossible to me.

I'm from NJ. The best Governors by far have been Republicans. Both parties are irredeemably corrupt, but there are always more Democrats in office.

Right on.

Though I'd have to say Democrats are always being prosecuted in NJ not solely because they are in office, but because they are the party that advocates big government in all aspects of life, from socialized medicine, to an unlawful housing law, to some of the biggest tax burdens in the nation that squeeze out businesses to Connecticut, Pennsylvania, and other areas of the country. Theser are the things Democrats and some Republicans advocate for.

Measure New Jersey up against any state in the nation, and you will find that New Jersey is almost unmatched by the amount of bureaucracy.

 

[The Return of the Raider]

Right on.



Measure New Jersey up against any state in the nation, and you will find that New Jersey is almost unmatched by the amount of bureaucracy.

I heard that

1 - the mob controls the entire state, and has for many years

2 - They are have all the landfills that NY dumps to.

 

[Real]

I heard that

1 - the mob controls the entire state, and has for many years

2 - They are have all the landfills that NY dumps to.

Regarding point one: the mob isn't as influential IMO as in the past. They don't really influence government all that much, it's the unions that have Trenton by the balls.

Consider the fact that the leader of the CWA (Communications Workers of America) used to date the Governor of New Jersey Jon Corzine. The CWA in New Jersey is the largest of all the local chapters, they represent 16,000 employees, public and private sector, but most of which work for the government.

During labor negotiations, Governor Corzine and the leader had contact, presenting a conflict of interest. A Superior Court judge ruled that 740 pages of their personal emails must be released to the public. The Attorney General is appealing to the State Supreme Court to prevent these e-mails from being released. The leader just got removed from her job by national heiarchy for misappropriating funds and violating federal labor laws.

Considering this is a liberal state, unions will always have major pull here, just as they do in a state like NY, where David Patterson pissed off the teachers unions during his spending cutting, and now they're waging a media campaign against him. It's just part of the territory. Whether or not these unions are more of a detriment to the state or helpful to those who belong to it is not an argument I'm either qualified or willing to go into.

As for point no. 2, the trash isn't the only stuff that comes here. The New Jersey Jets just opened their brand new training facility in Florham Park, NJ today.

 

[Run BJM]

Saw this and thought that this thread is probably the most appropriate place for it:

Maybe we should have a political cartoons thread? I've seen a lot of them in the wake of the election but dunno if we'd have enough to warrant a thread on it.

 

[huevonkiller]

MikeDC says he's the 5th Beetle.

Based on? :]

 

[The Return of the Raider]

Saw this and thought that this thread is probably the most appropriate place for it:

Maybe we should have a political cartoons thread? I've seen a lot of them in the wake of the election but dunno if we'd have enough to warrant a thread on it.

There is a lot of perception built up around which party spends more than the other, but it's hard to argue with the bottom line.

 

[cpawfan]

Maybe we should have a political cartoons thread? I've seen a lot of them in the wake of the election but dunno if we'd have enough to warrant a thread on it.

Go for it.

 

[Dumpy]

Heaven forbid we actually make a sincere attempt to argue what we actually believe!

Having never been a congressman, or ever worked on the hill, I don't have the requisite experience to formulate an opinion.