Politics White Nationalist Rally turns to violence and terrorism

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theprunetang said:
I'm sorry, but there is at least one person here blaming today's events on antifa. I don't agree with their tactics, but they exist because of white nationalist assholes. They are the effect, rather than the cause. Don't blame the roaches for infesting your house. Maybe you shouldn't have rotten food all over your house.
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I hadn't heard of Antifa until recently so logically they aren't the cause of this to me. Are they the week old Pizza enticing the roaches to come out in the daylight? Maybe, even probably. Still no excuse.
 
The main difference is that white supremacy has been a persistent strain of ugliness in the US and Europe for centuries, while Antifa is a recent flare-up. It's like having a cold and telling someone with cancer, "We both have problems, the only difference is that cancer is in the news right now." Both are illnesses, but one is a long-term problem that has had much more serious and devastating effects.
 
Minstrel said:
The main difference is that white supremacy has been a persistent strain of ugliness in the US and Europe for centuries, while Antifa is a recent flare-up. It's like having a cold and telling someone with cancer, "We both have problems, the only difference is that cancer is in the news right now." Both are illnesses, but one is a long-term problem that has had much more serious and devastating effects.
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Your analogy was much more effective than mine.
 
So I guess we all have excuses for hating each other. What a wonderful society we live in. It's one of the main reasons I keep out of the big cities.
 
theprunetang said:
I'm sorry, but there is at least one person here blaming today's events on antifa. I don't agree with their tactics, but they exist because of white nationalist assholes. They are the effect, rather than the cause. Don't blame the roaches for infesting your house. Maybe you shouldn't have rotten food all over your house.
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Minstrel said:
The main difference is that white supremacy has been a persistent strain of ugliness in the US and Europe for centuries, while Antifa is a recent flare-up. It's like having a cold and telling someone with cancer, "We both have problems, the only difference is that cancer is in the news right now." Both are illnesses, but one is a long-term problem that has had much more serious and devastating effects.
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theprunetang said:
Your analogy was much more effective than mine.
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Minstrel said:
I actually liked yours a lot too.
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Ha! I guess you guys impressed each other.
I sort of noticed the effort.
 
bodyman5000 and 1 said:
The question is this, is this cancer only affecting white people or would it affect others if they were the majority?
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I think it's a human cancer. If fate (i.e. the first to most effectively leverage gunpowder--different from the first to invent, which I believe was the Chinese) had reversed the polarity of power, I'm sure there would have been atrocities committed against white people of similar scope. It's not like taking slaves or mass murder was at all limited to white people.
 
Minstrel said:
I think it's a human cancer. If fate (i.e. the first to most effectively leverage gunpowder--different from the first to invent, which I believe was the Chinese) had reversed the polarity of power, I'm sure there would have been atrocities committed against white people of similar scope. It's not like taking slaves or mass murder was at all limited to white people.
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Well, that's what always bothers me when watching a movie or documentary about slavery.

I THINK that I'd rather just die and would fight back but if everyone thought like me then it would have just been a slaughter.

It is just so different than the way our world is now. But so is having a chilled filtered water dispenser in my house. My entire reality is different so it is hard to judge.
 
bodyman5000 and 1 said:
I THINK that I'd rather just die and would fight back but if everyone thought like me then it would have just been a slaughter.
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It's rarely so straightforward. You can be beaten down physically or overpowered without dying or you can submit because you don't want your family tortured to death in front of you.

But you're right--it's hard to have a good perspective when your reality is so different.
 
Minstrel said:
The main difference is that white supremacy has been a persistent strain of ugliness in the US and Europe for centuries, while Antifa is a recent flare-up. It's like having a cold and telling someone with cancer, "We both have problems, the only difference is that cancer is in the news right now." Both are illnesses, but one is a long-term problem that has had much more serious and devastating effects.
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You could argue that the recent rise in visible white nationalism (cancer that was in remission) is because the leftists (new cancerous cells) have been accusing people of being racists, bigots, or just being flat out evil for simply disagreeing with their politics for the past decade. I Fucking hate white power fucktards but as a person who is center-right I can see the frustration of it all.

All of this is just a result of the left and the right nudging each other over the past 60 years, except now it's turning into a fist fight. And it's sad that it's come to this.
 
BlazerDuckSeahawkFan94 said:
You could argue that the recent rise in visible white nationalism (cancer that was in remission) is because the leftists (new cancerous cells) have been accusing people of being racists, bigots, or just being flat out evil for simply disagreeing with their politics for the past decade. I Fucking hate white power fucktards but as a person who is center-right I can see the frustration of it all.

All of this is just a result of the left and the right nudging each other over the past 60 years, except now it's turning into a fist fight. And it's sad that it's come to this.
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I agree with all of this, thank you.
 
Minstrel said:
It's rarely so straightforward. You can be beaten down physically or overpowered without dying or you can submit because you don't want your family tortured to death in front of you.

But you're right--it's hard to have a good perspective when your reality is so different.
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I get angry. Angry unlike most people. They'd have probably killed me at the first sign of it. My mom has one of those Sears portraits from when I was 6 months old and I look like someone stole my car I'm so pissed.

I'd either cry like a baby or explode like a grenade. No in between.

I smashed every door in a rental house we had when I was a teen. The last one I kept telling myself "don't smash the door, don't smash the door"

Then my mom said "what are you gonna do, punch the door?"

Yep, put my arm through it.
 
BlazerDuckSeahawkFan94 said:
You could argue that the recent rise in visible white nationalism (cancer that was in remission) is because the leftists (new cancerous cells) have been accusing people of being racists, bigots, or just being flat out evil for simply disagreeing with their politics for the past decade.
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You could argue that, certainly, but it sounds like a false equivalence to me. To me, that boils down to, "Hey, maybe if you didn't fight bigotry, people wouldn't feel so damn determined to be bigots." It is okay to just be against white supremacy, full stop, rather than trying to find a way to argue, "Yeah, but..."
 
BlazerDuckSeahawkFan94 said:
You could argue that the recent rise in visible white nationalism (cancer that was in remission) is because the leftists (new cancerous cells) have been accusing people of being racists, bigots, or just being flat out evil for simply disagreeing with their politics for the past decade.
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Wait, so white racist dipshits and ANTIFA are the Dems fault?

Nah, both sides need to own their own shit. Trying to blame one side for everything ain't gonna solve a thing. Dems shit the bed last election, that doesn't mean it's ok for Pubs to sleep in a shitty one. Repubs more than Dems need to be the loudest voice against this racist bullshit.
 
Minstrel said:
You could argue that, certainly, but it sounds like a false equivalence to me. To me, that boils down to, "Hey, maybe if you didn't fight bigotry, people wouldn't feel so damn determined to be bigots." It is okay to just be against white supremacy, full stop, rather than trying to find a way to argue, "Yeah, but..."
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More like full DON'T stop. With your words.
 
Minstrel said:
You could argue that, certainly, but it sounds like a false equivalence to me. To me, that boils down to, "Hey, maybe if you didn't fight bigotry, people wouldn't feel so damn determined to be bigots." It is okay to just be against white supremacy, full stop, rather than trying to find a way to argue, "Yeah, but..."
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I don't know, these people look like the type that would own a house and have a nice car and take vacations every year 50 years ago. They probably think they're owed that for being white when it was a drastically different world that their parents lived in.
 
Minstrel said:
You could argue that, certainly, but it sounds like a false equivalence to me. To me, that boils down to, "Hey, maybe if you didn't fight bigotry, people wouldn't feel so damn determined to be bigots." It is okay to just be against white supremacy, full stop, rather than trying to find a way to argue, "Yeah, but..."
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But what is bigotry and racism anymore? The definitions have been perverted to fit an agenda. I mean, for fucks sake you can get called a racist now for making food that isn't of your "culture". It's all gotten out of hand.
 
bodyman5000 and 1 said:
I don't know, these people look like the type that would own a house and have a nice car and take vacations every year 50 years ago. They probably think they're owed that for being white when it was a drastically different world that their parents lived in.
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Yeah, that's been a constant cycle in this country and others. Eras change, industries come and go and that change displaces people, hurts them. The old stand-by example is that cars "displaced" (ended the jobs for) people who made horse-drawn buggies. Every time that type of upheaval occurs, there's usually an "out group" that takes the blame for why things feel crappier for the people who's jobs are gone, or going. Other types of immigrants have taken the brunt in past eras, and populists (whether fake or genuine, I certainly have my own opinion on that with Trump) have used that often-misplaced anger.

It would be overly reductive to claim that that's the only thing that fueled Trump's rise, and Democrats certainly have had their own problems for...about a generation, honestly, that have been somewhat covered up by extremely charismatic and savvy politicians, in Bill Clinton and Barack Obama. The party as a whole has struggled to have a consistent message to appeal to the lower-middle class people who are most at risk when eras change, as they've been changing over the past 20 years.
 
Minstrel said:
Yeah, that's been a constant cycle in this country and others. Eras change, industries come and go and that change displaces people, hurts them. The old stand-by example is that cars "displaced" (ended the jobs for) people who made horse-drawn buggies. Every time that type of upheaval occurs, there's usually an "out group" that takes the blame for why things feel crappier for the people who's jobs are gone, or going. Other types of immigrants have taken the brunt in past eras, and populists (whether fake or genuine, I certainly have my own opinion on that with Trump) have used that often-misplaced anger.

It would be overly reductive to claim that that's the only thing that fueled Trump's rise, and Democrats certainly have had their own problems for...about a generation, honestly, that have been somewhat covered up by extremely charismatic and savvy politicians, in Bill Clinton and Barack Obama. The party as a whole has struggled to have a consistent message to appeal to the lower-middle class people who are most at risk when eras change, as they've been changing over the past 20 years.
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If Democrats want to appeal to the lower class, then they need to stop pandering to multi-millionaire celebrities and politicians, as well as billionaire activists. They also need to....for example.....not wear a $12,000 pantsuit to a forum about "Wealth Inequality", and leave the pearl-necklace bling off of their necks.

Wear jeans and a goddamn t-shirt once in a while. Or even some stupid, mass-produced hat with a slogan on it.

That would be a great start.
 
BlazerDuckSeahawkFan94 said:
result of the left and the right nudging each other over the past 60 years
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Seems you maybe on it. Let's see, somebody decides to take down the statue of Robert E. Lee, the famous general of the south in the war that ended over 150 years ago.
None of these current dudes probably know squat about the General. But Who the hell knows enough to decide now to put their hero away???

Well anyway, the boys in khakis come to town to protest loosing their symbol of a hero.
The boys black come to town to foil the plans of the boys in khaki.

Now at this point both are known as protesters with rights and all that shit.
Seem like a plan for big trouble.

Yep. One of the mental giants on the khaki team breaks loose and Scoooooores!

Geez! Why do they get to play this game?
Who else wants to play?
 
MarAzul said:
Seems you maybe on it. Let's see, somebody decides to take down the statue of Robert E. Lee, the famous general of the south in the war that ended over 150 years ago.
None of these current dudes probably know squat about the General. But Who the hell knows enough to decide now to put their hero away???

Well anyway, the boys in khakis come to town to protest loosing their symbol of a hero.
The boys black come to town to foil the plans of the boys in khaki.

Now at this point both are known as protesters with rights and all that shit.
Seem like a plan for big trouble.

Yep. One of the mental giants on the khaki team breaks loose and Scoooooores!

Geez! Why do they get to play this game?
Who else wants to play?
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Just remember that they have swastikas on those khakis.
 
MarAzul said:
Well anyway, the boys in khakis come to town to protest loosing their symbol of a hero.
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They are free to erect as many statues of Lee as they want in and around their own homes. The image of Lee isn't banned. The one in Charlottesville won't be available for them anymore.
 
SlyPokerDog said:
They are free to erect as many statues of Lee as they want in and around their own homes. The image of Lee isn't banned. The one in Charlottesville won't be available for them anymore.
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I just don't understand why, 150 years later, a man who was loved by both the North and the South (Lee was an officer in the Union army before he was a Confederate....I'll bet few protesters actually know that) is now a divisive symbol. Give me a fucking break.

They have statues of Lenin in Seattle, for fuck's sake. Was Communism really that fucking swell?
 
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