Politics White Nationalist Rally turns to violence and terrorism

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Yep. Definitely where it started. Because one supports the right for all to have freedom of speech and ability to peaceably assemble, they are nazi supporter…

and this is where some people started acting as if they know what others think…and started being judgmental. You know.. asserting that moral authority, because they THINK they know what someone else is thinking when they stand firm on the right for all to be able to protest and assemble peaceably.

and thats sooo infuriating… lol.
I know at least one other person agrees with me on that….they just said so the other day! In their own passive aggressive way.

One can be opposed to another's beliefs while still supporting thier right to believe what they want.

There IS a middle ground for logical common sense people…

There is no middle ground for those who see red…on either side…
 
Nobody is opposed to peaceable assembly or freedom of speech. At least not that I've seen.

People are opposed to "violence and terrorism".

Some people like to push their political/ideological hangups off on other people, then get offended when those other people aren't interested in discussing those hangups.

Anybody who committed acts of violence here should be arrested and charged with a felony. Anybody who voiced any support for the people committing violence should be shouted down.

White nationalists should certainly be shouted down and derided by the community when they stage these rallies. They have the right to say their piece without government restriction, but everybody else has the right to respond in kind.

You have the right to voice your opinion, but if it's a bigoted, or poorly reasoned opinion people will call you on it. As they should.
 
Bullshit. Check history. From what you've seen, isn't much then. You turn the blind eye as well.
It was made pretty clear if one supports the right for nazis to assemble, they are a nazi supporter aNd that is not correct.
Period. And this is what spawned the standoff.
Because i maintained the stance that i support their right to assemble, i apparently support their beliefs.
This is people trying to tell me how i think,
Something someone just the other day had a fit over, while ignoring that they do this all the time.
This topic here is where i started feeling like people are unfairly judging me because i refuse to take the right to assemble, away.
The treatment from some here has been so since this topic came about…

Go back and read up.
If you are honest and understand that one can support the right, without supporting thier beliefs, then you have to see how some painted me as a nazi supporter…is wrong.

it was bullshit then and its bullshit now.

Period.

Being treated like im some evil white supremest lover because i support their right to assemble. Doesn't mean i agree with one bit of their ideals…but people here just completely dismiss that in their judgements of me…

So i said fuck it and started being a forum issue.
That backfired when i realized some who control this place were also not being reasonable on this and joining the vultures trying to unjustly peck at me for stating what i did.

If someone, ANYONE would have had my back and just said, its not wrong to support the protest as long as one doesn't subscribe to their ideals, i would not have felt and feel how i do these days. Nor would i be making posts out of spite.
But instead i was slammed as a racist supporter…and unfairly judged by some here.
And thats what morphed OB into what he is today. But some here simply cant handle facing their own behaviors aNd so they refuse to admit their judgements of me were not really fair.
instead they play this passive aggressive game randomly trying to play gotcha on me because they think I'm some despicable disgusting person…because they think they know what i actually think…


Go figure…
 
When people carry torches, Confederate traitor flags, wear 6MNE (for six million not enough) shirts and chant "blood and soil" and "Jews will not replace us"and "hail white people" it is not slander to call them Nazis. Do you prefer very fine people?
 
Orion Bailey said:
Bullshit. Check history. From what you've seen, isn't much then. You turn the blind eye as well.
It was made pretty clear if one supports the right for nazis to assemble, they are a nazi supporter aNd that is not correct.
Period. And this is what spawned the standoff.
Because i maintained the stance that i support their right to assemble, i apparently support their beliefs.
This is people trying to tell me how i think,
Something someone just the other day had a fit over, while ignoring that they do this all the time.
This topic here is where i started feeling like people are unfairly judging me because i refuse to take the right to assemble, away.
The treatment from some here has been so since this topic came about…

Go back and read up.
If you are honest and understand that one can support the right, without supporting thier beliefs, then you have to see how some painted me as a nazi supporter…is wrong.

it was bullshit then and its bullshit now.

Period.

Being treated like im some evil white supremest lover because i support their right to assemble. Doesn't mean i agree with one bit of their ideals…but people here just completely dismiss that in their judgements of me…

So i said fuck it and started being a forum issue.
That backfired when i realized some who control this place were also not being reasonable on this and joining the vultures trying to unjustly peck at me for stating what i did.

If someone, ANYONE would have had my back and just said, its not wrong to support the protest as long as one doesn't subscribe to their ideals, i would not have felt and feel how i do these days. Nor would i be making posts out of spite.
But instead i was slammed as a racist supporter…and unfairly judged by some here.
And thats what morphed OB into what he is today. But some here simply cant handle facing their own behaviors aNd so they refuse to admit their judgements of me were not really fair.
instead they play this passive aggressive game randomly trying to play gotcha on me because they think I'm some despicable disgusting person…because they think they know what i actually think…


Go figure…
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Who suggested changing the law to prevent them from being allowed to rally?
 
Phatguysrule said:
Who suggested changing the law to prevent them from being allowed to rally?
Click to expand...

Who said someone suggested changing any law?

See? Perfect example. Nice spin. Instead of saying im correct im that i shouldn't be judged as a racist supporter for supporting the right to assemble, you ask a question with no correlation to what i said.

Spin.
Thanks for cementing my point as to why conversations, real ones, arent abl to be had without some people here without either spinning, deflecting or insulting.

i never said a word about anyone wanting to change any law, but yet out of all that, thats your question??? And im to take you serious???

Yep!

Thats Right!
 
Orion Bailey said:
Who said someone suggested changing any law?
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I'm just trying to understand your point.

If nobody suggested removing their right to rally why are you in here advocating for their right to rally? Or to hold a given belief.
 
Orion Bailey said:
not really. Just read the thread and threads aNd maintain an impartial viewpoint.
Im not gonna beat a dead horse.
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Yeah I read it and I don't understand what point you were ever trying to make since nobody was attacking the right to rally (which would require a change in law).

If you side with or defend Nazis when nobody is proposing restricting their rights, people are going to shout you down. Because that looks like you supporting Nazis.

I'm not saying you are supporting Nazis, just that it looks like you are.

And your refusal to discuss whatever else you are in disagreement with, supporting, or arguing against doesn't help.

I just assumed since you kept coming back to it that you wanted to discuss it.

My mistake.
 
Phatguysrule said:
Yeah I read it and I don't understand what point you were ever trying to make since nobody was attacking the right to rally (which would require a change in law).

If you side with or defend Nazis when nobody is proposing restricting their rights, people are going to shout you down. Because that looks like you supporting Nazis.

I'm not saying you are supporting Nazis, just that it looks like you are.

And your refusal to discuss whatever else you are in disagreement with, supporting, or arguing against doesn't help.

I just assumed since you kept coming back to it that you wanted to discuss it.

My mistake.
Click to expand...

you are not this obtuse…
 
Phatguysrule said:
I'm trying to have an honest conversation with you and you're refusing. I'm not sure why the personal insults are necessary.
Click to expand...

not an insult. Im saying i know you aren't, so lets not play games.
Part of the problem is there has been alot of editing and deletion in this thread.
i said this thread started it. Not that it had the meat of it all.
But just read the tweet from Enes.
To be silent doesn't mean you support. It just might mean that one has a different way of dealing with them than another.
Some feel violence begats violence and confrontation creates violence.
So some people feel giving them attention is not the best solution.
But in that stance, as Enes tweet eludes, that we therefore support racists and racism and that is not true. But some people here have run with that judgement from then on and have lashed out with passive aggressive sniper comments ever since…

Anyhow im not gonna discuss it anymore. If you want a real conversation about it, DM me, but this a useless conversation for the forum.
 
Orion Bailey said:
not an insult. Im saying i know you aren't, so lets not play games.
Part of the problem is there has been alot of editing and deletion in this thread.
i said this thread started it. Not that it had the meat of it all.
But just read the tweet from Enes.
To be silent doesn't mean you support. It just might mean that one has a different way of dealing with them than another.
Some feel violence begats violence and confrontation creates violence.
So some people feel giving them attention is not the best solution.
But in that stance, as Enes tweet eludes, that we therefore support racists and racism and that is not true. But some people here have run with that judgement from then on and have lashed out with passive aggressive sniper comments ever since…

Anyhow im not gonna discuss it anymore. If you want a real conversation about it, DM me, but this a useless conversation for the forum.
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I don't understand the need for DM. There is nothing private about this conversation. The times I've had DM conversations like this people have made false claims about them.

I'd much rather keep it public. Then when a post is quoted the edit can be more easily identified. It helps keep honest people honest.

If you do not oppose or renounce bigotry and hate, then you allow it. Hence you may be perceived to be in support if it.

Especially if you take the time to weigh in, and even move to defend the rights of said bigots (and even more so, when those rights were not attacked).

This is all reasonable, IMO.

I was trying to figure out if I'd missed some critical detail to make your stance seem more reasonable.
 
Phatguysrule said:
I don't understand the need for DM. There is nothing private about this conversation. The times I've had DM conversations like this people have made false claims about them.

I'd much rather keep it public. Then when a post is quoted the edit can be more easily identified. It helps keep honest people honest.

If you do not oppose or renounce bigotry and hate, then you allow it. Hence you may be perceived to be in support if it.

Especially if you take the time to weigh in, and even move to defend the rights of said bigots (and even more so, when those rights were not attacked).

This is all reasonable, IMO.

I was trying to figure out if I'd missed some critical detail to make your stance seem more reasonable.
Click to expand...

sigh.. im already overstepping my bounds here.
By directive, i need to move on. If you want to discuss politics okay. But im not getting into me or other people here, any further. It was a mistake to post my initial post, but the resurrection of the thread renewed it all.
 
SlyPokerDog said:
View attachment 41409

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...Youngkin-backers-racist-Unite-Right-garb.html
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It appears when one side is losing they will go to any extreme to counter and prevent losing. This kind of strategy sickens me. It shouldnt though because Ive known for most of my life that politicians will say anything to get elected and then change course.
Its that since the extremes having gotten more powerful now they will do anything to bury the other side. Wont be long and it will be the Sunnis and Shia right her in good old USA.
The extremist, its their ideology that parallels religion.
 
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Orion Bailey said:
Yep. Definitely where it started. Because one supports the right for all to have freedom of speech and ability to peaceably assemble, they are nazi supporter…

and this is where some people started acting as if they know what others think…and started being judgmental. You know.. asserting that moral authority, because they THINK they know what someone else is thinking when they stand firm on the right for all to be able to protest and assemble peaceably.

and thats sooo infuriating… lol.
I know at least one other person agrees with me on that….they just said so the other day! In their own passive aggressive way.

One can be opposed to another's beliefs while still supporting thier right to believe what they want.

There IS a middle ground for logical common sense people…

There is no middle ground for those who see red…on either side…
Click to expand...

Jesus fucking Christ you pick the strangest hills to die on.

Should Nazis and racists be allowed to voice their opinions? Sure. Within in reason but sure. But yes, they should have the rights which they themselves would and historically have denied others.

Should they have a voice in any major political party in this country? FUCK NO!

If you were to run for mayor of Canby and suddenly all of the fucking pedos in this state publicly supported you, campaigned for you, donated to you and you did nothing IMO that makes you just as bad as them.

There is no room for Nazi and white supremacists in our political system. PERIOD.

There is no middle ground on this. PERIOD.

You bet your damn ass I have moral authority over Nazis and white supremacists. They're fucking giant pieces of shit.

Nazis and white supremacists feel that they have a home and a voice in today's modern Republican party. That is sick. It was sick 100 years ago when they had a voice in the Democrat party and it's even sicker now.
 
SlyPokerDog said:
Jesus fucking Christ you pick the strangest hills to die on.

Should Nazis and racists be allowed to voice their opinions? Sure. Within in reason but sure. But yes, they should have the rights which they themselves would and historically have denied others.

Should they have a voice in any major political party in this country? FUCK NO!

If you were to run for mayor of Canby and suddenly all of the fucking pedos in this state publicly supported you, campaigned for you, donated to you and you did nothing IMO that makes you just as bad as them.

There is no room for Nazi and white supremacists in our political system. PERIOD.

There is no middle ground on this. PERIOD.

You bet your damn ass I have moral authority over Nazis and white supremacists. They're fucking giant pieces of shit.

Nazis and white supremacists feel that they have a home and a voice in today's modern Republican party. That is sick. It was sick 100 years ago when they had a voice in the Democrat party and it's even sicker now.
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Have i ever let on that i think they (racists, kkk, etc)should hold any political power or seat at any political table? If so please show me, as I'm sure there is a misunderstanding. Otherwise, I've never refuted anything you just said, so I'm not sure about this hill I'm dieing on?…unless…
 
Nazis are serial killers and racists.....Fred Trump attended their rally in 1939 in Madison Square garden before we entered the war....America had a ton of Nazi sympathizers due to the fact that many americans were racist then and a lot still are....they have no defense or place in our politics other than as a wall of shame...they did not cause arguments in S2....they caused genocide and lynched minorities ...created what we now know as "white privilege".....there's simply no inclusive footing they deserve in a free country....they don't believe in our freedoms...they only believe in white freedoms
 
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Orion Bailey said:
Have i ever let on that i think they (racists, kkk, etc)should hold any political power or seat at any political table? If so please show me, as I'm sure there is a misunderstanding. Otherwise, I've never refuted anything you just said, so I'm not sure about this hill I'm dieing on?…unless…
Click to expand...
you conflated their rally with the division of S2's political debates and culture...which is wrong in my view...Sly's right...you didn't think this through well OB...and it's ok to walk it back...you should in my view...move on and put those whack jobs in the light they deserve to be viewed through. Nazi's aren't conservatives battling liberals...they are a cult of hate...if we start teaching kids their hate in public schools it'll be an insult to all who died to defeat the Nazi's when they tried to conquer the world the first two times.
 
riverman said:
you conflated their rally with the division of S2's political debates and culture...which is wrong in my view...Sly's right...you didn't think this through well OB...and it's ok to walk it back...you should in my view...move on and put those whack jobs in the light they deserve to be viewed through. Nazi's aren't conservatives battling liberals...they are a cult of hate...if we start teaching kids their hate in public schools it'll be an insult to all who died to defeat the Nazi's when they tried to conquer the world the first two times.
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I'm not sure what you mean. When did i ever say we should teach thier beliefs or hatred?
As a matter of fact i was saying dont give them that attention.
Im not understanding what there is to walk back. Im not saying the rally sparked anything. Im saying the comments in the thread was the spark of division.
 
riverman said:
Nazis are serial killers and racists.....Fred Trump attended their rally in 1939 in Madison Square garden before we entered the war....America had a ton of Nazi sympathizers due to the fact that many americans were racist then and a lot still are....they have no defense or place in our politics other than as a wall of shame...
Click to expand...

Time to merge this thread with the Ford sucks thread.... (As old Henry was a Nazi supporter)
 
Orion Bailey said:
Have i ever let on that i think they (racists, kkk, etc)should hold any political power or seat at any political table? If so please show me, as I'm sure there is a misunderstanding. Otherwise, I've never refuted anything you just said, so I'm not sure about this hill I'm dieing on?…unless…
Click to expand...
I truly don't understand how you're you're disagreeing with anybody in this thread.

They are anti Nazis. Anti white supremacy. Anti violence and terrorism.

If you're opposed to those things just say so and stop arguing about it...
 
Orion Bailey said:
Who said someone suggested changing any law?

See? Perfect example. Nice spin. Instead of saying im correct im that i shouldn't be judged as a racist supporter for supporting the right to assemble, you ask a question with no correlation to what i said.

Spin.
Thanks for cementing my point as to why conversations, real ones, arent abl to be had without some people here without either spinning, deflecting or insulting.

i never said a word about anyone wanting to change any law, but yet out of all that, thats your question??? And im to take you serious???

Yep!

Thats Right!
Click to expand...
I think Phatguysrule inferred from your statement about being infuriated which he should not have done. He should have checked with you first. But it's not the worst offense I've seen.
 
Phatguysrule said:
I don't understand the need for DM. There is nothing private about this conversation. The times I've had DM conversations like this people have made false claims about them.

I'd much rather keep it public. Then when a post is quoted the edit can be more easily identified. It helps keep honest people honest.

If you do not oppose or renounce bigotry and hate, then you allow it. Hence you may be perceived to be in support if it.

Especially if you take the time to weigh in, and even move to defend the rights of said bigots (and even more so, when those rights were not attacked).

This is all reasonable, IMO.

I was trying to figure out if I'd missed some critical detail to make your stance seem more reasonable.
Click to expand...
This whole thing is seriously devolving. If it were me, I'd let it drop.
 
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