Who to draft?

[BrianFromWA]

I skimmed most of it because it just isn't worth the time to go back through your roundabout logic of addressing 5 different peoples' arguments with statements towards me.

LOL

But in summation, you mixed many people's arguments into one, then tried to argue against all of them at the same time, while in the process arguing towards me, about things I never said. That is where your strawmen came from.

I argued them systematically as they came up. Once one got shot down, another tangential one took its place, and received my attention. Every post I made addressed a specific, earlier one. If I wasn't talking to you, so be it. When I was talking to you, what do you have to refute it?

But if you had read the original conversation, it wasn't about who is "better" between Blair and DC.

I came into the conversation specifically after, and to refute, post 44, where it was brought up that Blair was "ok, nothing great" and that "both JP and DC showed glimpses every bit as impressive".

As for the argument about defense: Stop trying to assume that I think DC will be a PF in this league. I don't care what the stats show for him while defending PFs. I know he isn't a strong defender at the PF. But that is where Nate played him. But from observation, he did pretty well (for a rookie) guarding some of the big, strong SF's this year.

"I don't care what the stats show...I'm going by observation". What i'm trying to show you is the logic jump you seem to not be seeing...from "Observation" you've seen him do well guarding "big, strong SFs". HE DIDN'T GUARD A SINGLE SF, according to every place I know of that tracks defensive metrics and possessions. Those "big strong SFs" were playing PF. You "know he isn't a strong defender at PF", yet your observation was that he did pretty well...but all he did was guard PFs (you're right...that's what Nate had him do) and didn't do it well (giving up a PER of 18).

Keep thinking that someday he'll play the 3...maybe he will. But he hasn't yet. All those skills people are bringing up have been displayed at the 4. Offense, defense...all at the 4. Sure, through no fault of his own--that's where his coach played him. But to make distinctions based on his position, when all he did this year was play PF, doesn't make sense.

 

[BlazerCaravan]

that's a fair point, and though I disagree I can see why you'd think that. Personally, I don't see JP getting enough time at the "stretch 4" to show his 18-foot jumper, and with a 3-man rotation of LMA, Oden and Camby (and DC or Webster playing the 4 in smallball lineups) I don't see that he'll get much time at all.

And to that end, I think Camby is a better 3rd man in that rotation than Blair would have been (operating under the assumption that we might not make the Camby trade if we had Blair); or Blair being stuck behind those three is even more of a crime than JP being stuck behind them (operating under the assumption that we make the Camby trade anyway).

If you're going to have a 3-man rotation at PF/C, does it really matter who the odd man out is at this point? Alternatively, is Blair any better than the solution we ended up finding at backup PF/C (Camby)?

Yes, Blair is a better player than DC and JP, combined or separately. KP didn't think he was worth the risk, or wasn't the guy he wanted period. Jeff Pendergraph has some hidden offensive chops that may or may not ever see the light of day. Maybe in a couple years after Camby's done. Maybe on some other team. Who knows. Blair might have been in the same situation, the odd man out, rotting on the bench, or injured because we were cursed this year. Who knows.

Me, I'm happy with the picks we ended up taking. Claver was picked to save cap space which allowed us to afford Hedo Milsap Miller. JP and DC served us well, and tangibly gave us a couple of wins over the course of the season (not single-handedly, but over time). I like them both, and am glad to have them at the end of the bench. They seem to be perfect bench guys.

 

[blazerboy30]

LOL

"I don't care what the stats show...I'm going by observation". What i'm trying to show you is the logic jump you seem to not be seeing...from "Observation" you've seen him do well guarding "big, strong SFs". HE DIDN'T GUARD A SINGLE SF, according to every place I know of that tracks defensive metrics and possessions.

Dude, seriously. Do you HONESTLY think he never got switched onto Lebron, Carmello, Wallace, etc, etc? Those switches weren't captured in your stats. That is why I'm going by observation. And like I acknowledged above, it is a small sample size. So I'm not declaring him a good defender, but I see some potential there.

Your "stats" also say that LMA didn't "guard" any PG's. We all know that there was ample time to observe LMA on switches, showing that he would not do a good job guarding PG's. Can we not make conclusions about LMA's ability to guard PG's because it isn't at "82games.com"? No.

In the tried-and-true style of forum speak: Watch the damn game. There are things the stats don't show.

Those "big strong SFs" were playing PF. You "know he isn't a strong defender at PF", yet your observation was that he did pretty well...but all he did was guard PFs (you're right...that's what Nate had him do) and didn't do it well (giving up a PER of 18).

Do you not get Blazer games up there in Washington, or do you trust "basketball-reference" more than seeing with your own eyes? DC was switched onto SF's, at which point, I made some observations. Refer to my above point about LMA guarding PGs.

Keep thinking that someday he'll play the 3...maybe he will.

Yeah, we already had this thread a few days back. Many posters agree with me.

But he hasn't yet.

Irrelevant.

All those skills people are bringing up have been displayed at the 4. Offense, defense...all at the 4.

Yeah. Which got you started with your shooting percentage from a PF. His midrange jumper is decent for a SF. I don't expect him have a high percentage of his shots down low, because I project him as a SF. Get it?

Sure, through no fault of his own--that's where his coach played him. But to make distinctions based on his position, when all he did this year was play PF, doesn't make sense.

Sure it does. If I consider him to have been playing out of position, there is no reason for me to put a lot of weight on how he did while playing out of position.

 

[Denny Crane]

#26 pick
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/4631

undrafted
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3305

#16 pick with motor and upside:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/4621

 

[Blaze01]

I noticed that Blaze01 didn't refute anything I said about JP (how could he?),

Seriously? I didn't reply b\c why bother? Pendergraph was injured at the start of the year and then sat behind Aldridge, Howard & Camby. When he did get in, he actually showed some good reboundng, a nice jumper...but he didn't have nearly the minutes\attempts\exposure that Blair did. Cunningham at least got some more exposure, albeit limited and he too showed some nice abilities....

and yes, I'll take a guy who can hit a mid range jumper with some consistency, over a guy whose best offensive move is throwing his body into a defender in the post...ANY day...

 

[BrianFromWA]

Fair enough. I'll take the guy who's been the best in the league at what he does over a guy who's best trait is that he made 9 jumpers in 39 games after being injured for half the year. And his best offensive move isn't throwing himself into a defender--it's getting offensive rebounds at a level unmatched by anyone IN THE ENTIRE EFFING LEAGUE. His 16% OReb% led the league (even over Oden's 15.6%). And you're saying that you'd rather "take a guy" who you can have shooting 44% from midrange, than a guy who's the best offensive rebounder (and shoots over 60% putting them back up) IN THE ENTIRE LEAGUE? Well, that's your choice. But it begs the question: are you a family member of one of these guys, or Nate?
EDIT: I wrote this thinking you were talking about Pendergraph. Which sweet-shooting big were you talking about?