Who wanted Monroe?!

[magnifier661]

They meld the crippling combination of a slow pace and inefficient offense into an amalgam of futility. They can score in the paint when center Greg Monroe decides to go inside or grab an offensive rebound (though about a third of his shots are jumpers).

http://www.blazersedge.com/2013/3/15/4110094/portland-trail-blazers-vs-detroit-pistons-2012-2013

A third of his shots are from the perimeter? And you complain about Aldridge taking too many perimeter shots? This is laughable! Monroe is lackluster and a perimeter scorer. Problem.... Aldridge is way more efficient from the perimeter.

This is why your "grass is greener on the other side" wannabe gms should leave the decision making from those that actually know what they are doing.

We will see just how idiotic wanting Monroe for Aldridge truly is!

 

[JfizzleBlazer]

Its all about potential with half of these posters.

You dont move Aldridge unless you get an upgrade. No way he gets traded for potential unless Aldridge says he wants to leave

 

[Pinwheel1]

Its all about potential with half of these posters.

You dont move Aldridge unless you get an upgrade. No way he gets traded for potential unless Aldridge says he wants to leave

I agree. The draft is the same way. I have been watching the so called lottery picks during the conference tournaments and they are pretty much all-potential too. Don't get me wrong there are a lot of good players out there with potential, but as we always say........ it is a crap shoot. (Not impressed with Porter last night)

 

[magnifier661]

Its all about potential with half of these posters.

You dont move Aldridge unless you get an upgrade. No way he gets traded for potential unless Aldridge says he wants to leave

Exactly!!! Like I've said in a previous post; "too many hipster Portland fans"

They would rather this team be some stepping stone for players to develop their game; then use that development to succeed somewhere else. Then they can claim "we knew him when he was a nobody!"

 

[Jayps15]

http://www.blazersedge.com/2013/3/15/4110094/portland-trail-blazers-vs-detroit-pistons-2012-2013

A third of his shots are from the perimeter? And you complain about Aldridge taking too many perimeter shots? This is laughable! Monroe is lackluster and a perimeter scorer. Problem.... Aldridge is way more efficient from the perimeter.

This is why your "grass is greener on the other side" wannabe gms should leave the decision making from those that actually know what they are doing.

We will see just how idiotic wanting Monroe for Aldridge truly is!

I want an Aldridge for Monroe + Singler + 10million in in caproom(conveniently what it would take to sign Paul Millsap) trade.

Here's Monroe, Aldridge, and Hickson's shooting numbers and shot chart on the year.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/monrogr01/shooting/2013/
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/aldrila01/shooting/2013/
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/hicksjj01/shooting/2013/

The numbers are pretty clear as to who's the 'perimeter' scorer. Percentage of FGA as Jumpers: Monroe 31%, Hickson 36%, Aldridge 72%

Monroe is 22 years old with a 19.0 PER (22.0 PER last season) while Aldridge is 27 with a 19.9 PER (22.7 PER last season), they are remarkably similar in terms of production/efficiency but Monroe is still 5 years younger.

 

[magnifier661]

I want an Aldridge for Monroe + Singler + 10million in in caproom(conveniently what it would take to sign Paul Millsap) trade.

Here's Monroe, Aldridge, and Hickson's shooting numbers and shot chart on the year.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/monrogr01/shooting/2013/
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/aldrila01/shooting/2013/
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/hicksjj01/shooting/2013/

The numbers are pretty clear as to who's the 'perimeter' scorer. Percentage of FGA as Jumpers: Monroe 31%, Hickson 36%, Aldridge 72%

Monroe is 22 years old with a 19.0 PER (22.0 PER last season) while Aldridge is 27 with a 19.9 PER (22.7 PER last season), they are remarkably similar in terms of production/efficiency but Monroe is still 5 years younger.

Those other players are a joke and that cap space will do us no good. We could still have "max" without even trading Aldridge. Singler doesn't impress me one bit. Monroe doesn't impress me either. And talk about that "20 per" idea. A combo of dalembert + jerm oneal give us two players with the same per that will give you the same amount of minutes as Monroe. All this, still keeping Aldridge.

And there is no guarantee we could even get millsap. Utah will do everything in their power to keep him. He has been the most consistent, highest inside defensive presence on Utah. I think they give up Jefferson before millsap.

Bra have you seen the heat map? Aldridge has versatility as the others all must score inside. If we take that away; except Lillard to get quad teamed from the perimeter!

 

[Jayps15]

A few points
1: It's not relevant but I keep seeing people say this about our cap but it just isn't right. Olshey said we'd have ~13.1M in cap room if we don't get our pick and renounce everyone, ~11.8M with the pick. 'Max' room isn't actually a single number, it's based off of years played OR the players salary in the last year of their previous contract. The projected lowest 'Max' number this offseason is 13.7M.

2: Singler is more of a throw in (and I forgot I'd throw Freelands contract at Detroit too), but he's a nice roleplayer. Can hit open shots better than anyone else we have on the bench and he's only making 1M a year. Look at the numbers Harrison 'FUCKING' Barnes vs Singler this season, he doesn't have the upside but it's funny given some posters love of Barnes.

3. How about we get Andre Blatche and Brandan Wright to replace Aldridge's minutes at an even higher PER!!!!!! (ridiculous premise, but I lol'd a bit)

4. In my opinion Utah is setting themselves up to let both of Jefferson and Millsap walk this offseason, as well as Mo and Marvin Williams. That's 4 starters or at least guys making starter money they have coming off the books. Both Favors and Kanter need minutes and will be demanding 8-10M a year in the next 2 years, with Millsap likely commanding 10M as an unrestricted FA that would make a 26-30M 3 man frontcourt rotation that I just don't think the Jazz organization can afford. Combined with needing to sign starters at other positions and I think the Jazz will look to sign starters at PG and SG/SF before they look to bring Millsap back.

5: Huh? on the heat chart comment. Yes I see that part, but how is Aldridge taking 72% of his FGA as jumpers he almost never draws a double on (and is often wide open because Lillard has drawn the double/trap in the pick and pop) compared to Monroe taking 81% of his FGA (698 of 858) within 10ft of the rim gonna translate to Lillard getting 'quad teamed' on the perimeter?

 

[Pinwheel1]

I was one who argued for signing Millsap a few years ago. (Like I did for Wes) But my argument for both
was in a 6th man role. And I still believe that.

As for Singler, I am biased because he is an Oregon native. (I always liked him where I disliked kLove.)
I would like to see him coming off our bench too.

So yes get me Millsap and Singler. Just don't trade LMA unless you get a really good starter back.

 

[MickZagger]

Do you know what the definition of a 'jumper' is? There's a big difference between a 5 foot jumper and an 18 foot jumper.

 

[MickZagger]

I agree. The draft is the same way. I have been watching the so called lottery picks during the conference tournaments and they are pretty much all-potential too. Don't get me wrong there are a lot of good players out there with potential, but as we always say........ it is a crap shoot. (Not impressed with Porter last night)

You do realize your boy Aldridge was once all potential.

 

[magnifier661]

You do realize your boy Aldridge was once all potential.

Yeah, hence what I just said. You fans want to develop players then ship them out for another potential

 

[magnifier661]

Do you know what the definition of a 'jumper' is? There's a big difference between a 5 foot jumper and an 18 foot jumper.

Yep and looking at the basketball reference link; Aldridge is hot pretty much all over the court. This isn't true with either of the two examples. Monroe is actually a liability on d like many fans have already pointed out in Detroit.

 

[magnifier661]

A few points
1: It's not relevant but I keep seeing people say this about our cap but it just isn't right. Olshey said we'd have ~13.1M in cap room if we don't get our pick and renounce everyone, ~11.8M with the pick. 'Max' room isn't actually a single number, it's based off of years played OR the players salary in the last year of their previous contract. The projected lowest 'Max' number this offseason is 13.7M.

Olshey references that space on the old cap; which has been discussed over and over again. The new cap should be around 60 mil; which reflects another 3-4 million of the existing cap.

2: Singler is more of a throw in (and I forgot I'd throw Freelands contract at Detroit too), but he's a nice roleplayer. Can hit open shots better than anyone else we have on the bench and he's only making 1M a year. Look at the numbers Harrison 'FUCKING' Barnes vs Singler this season, he doesn't have the upside but it's funny given some posters love of Barnes.

I have never given love to Harrison fucking Barnes

3. How about we get Andre Blatche and Brandan Wright to replace Aldridge's minutes at an even higher PER!!!!!! (ridiculous premise, but I lol'd a bit)

I was making the same dig on your per statement using dalembert and oneal. I guess you missed that.

4. In my opinion Utah is setting themselves up to let both of Jefferson and Millsap walk this offseason, as well as Mo and Marvin Williams. That's 4 starters or at least guys making starter money they have coming off the books. Both Favors and Kanter need minutes and will be demanding 8-10M a year in the next 2 years, with Millsap likely commanding 10M as an unrestricted FA that would make a 26-30M 3 man frontcourt rotation that I just don't think the Jazz organization can afford. Combined with needing to sign starters at other positions and I think the Jazz will look to sign starters at PG and SG/SF before they look to bring Millsap back.

I don't see it like that. Millsap has been their only consistent player.

5: Huh? on the heat chart comment. Yes I see that part, but how is Aldridge taking 72% of his FGA as jumpers he almost never draws a double on (and is often wide open because Lillard has drawn the double/trap in the pick and pop) compared to Monroe taking 81% of his FGA (698 of 858) within 10ft of the rim gonna translate to Lillard getting 'quad teamed' on the perimeter?

The reference to the heat chart shows that Aldridge is versatile; unlike the other players you referenced. Also, hickson gets wide open jumpers and is dared to shoot because its a better poison than Aldridge. I don't understand how you don't see Aldridge and his outside and inside threat provides open shots for other players.

 

[MickZagger]

Those other players are a joke and that cap space will do us no good. We could still have "max" without even trading Aldridge. Singler doesn't impress me one bit. Monroe doesn't impress me either. And talk about that "20 per" idea. A combo of dalembert + jerm oneal give us two players with the same per that will give you the same amount of minutes as Monroe. All this, still keeping Aldridge.

And there is no guarantee we could even get millsap. Utah will do everything in their power to keep him. He has been the most consistent, highest inside defensive presence on Utah. I think they give up Jefferson before millsap.

Bra have you seen the heat map? Aldridge has versatility as the others all must score inside. If we take that away; except Lillard to get quad teamed from the perimeter!

You actually have to watch someone play more than a couple times before you can say you aren't impressed. As a 22 year old, Monroe is better than Aldridge was as a 22 year old.

 

[magnifier661]

You actually have to watch someone play more than a couple times before you can say you aren't impressed. As a 22 year old, Monroe is better than Aldridge was as a 22 year old.

That's a crock of shit. For one; Aldridge came in extremely undersized and proved he worked hard to get a pf body. Also, Portland had Roy and used Aldridge as the spot up pick and pop player for as long as Roy was relevant.

Only until Roy went down with injury after injury was when Aldridge stepped up and became lamonster. How quickly you forget.

 

[Pinwheel1]

You do realize your boy Aldridge was once all potential.

So was the guy taken ahead of him. How did that work out?

I understand what you are saying, now a days with the lack of 3-4 years of college experience, they are mostly
all based on potential. But I think the less guess work in building a team the better. You can't completely get away from it, but you can try to eliminate as much of it as possible.

 

[Rhal]

You actually have to watch someone play more than a couple times before you can say you aren't impressed. As a 22 year old, Monroe is better than Aldridge was as a 22 year old.

Monroe is better at 22 then LA is at 50% of the game which is offense. Monroe's D is almost nonexistent, he is a very very bad defense player and thats half the game. He doesn't even pretend to try on that end of the floor. Offense in the NBA (especially on young guys) seems to get all the glory and people over look the other half of the game which is D.

 

[magnifier661]

You actually have to watch someone play more than a couple times before you can say you aren't impressed. As a 22 year old, Monroe is better than Aldridge was as a 22 year old.

That's a bunch of bullshit. First off, Aldridge came in extremely raw and undersized. Monroe was already a solid center build. Aldridge proved his work ethic and developed into a solid of frame. He also developed his inside game to compliment his outside shooting.

Aldridge was the pick and pop player because we had Roy needing his outside shot. The moment Roy went down, we saw the lamonster playing inside and dominating.

How quickly you forget.

Monroe doesn't demand doubles like Aldridge does. But like your lack of committing to aldridges 4th quarter over/under last game; you will refuse any logical response anyway

 

[magnifier661]

Monroe is better at 22 then LA is at 50% of the game which is offense. Monroe's D is almost nonexistent, he is a very very bad defense player and thats half the game. He doesn't even pretend to try on that end of the floor. Offense in the NBA (especially on young guys) seems to get all the glory and people over look the other half of the game which is D.

Don't use logic. Don't you know that most of these guys are only concerned about offense. Monroe is awesome because he can score. Never mind his terrible defense. We don't need defense man!!!!

 

[Jayps15]

Olshey references that space on the old cap; which has been discussed over and over again. The new cap should be around 60 mil; which reflects another 3-4 million of the existing cap.

The current cap is 58M, 60M would only be an increase of 2. And I see a minimum of ~46M in cap commitments even with renouncing everyone and losing our pick, that's 14M in room with a 60M cap, which is barely enough for the lowest possible 'max'. Millsap, for an example already brought up in this thread but not likely to get the max, qualifies for a max of 16.4M this offseason.

I have never given love to Harrison fucking Barnes

Just an observation about the Barnes thing. Again Singler isn't a prize, he's just the kind of guy any team would like to have for spot minutes and injury insurance.

I was making the same dig on your per statement using dalembert and oneal. I guess you missed that.

I got the dig, and called it a ridiculous premise, did you miss that?

I don't see it like that. Millsap has been their only consistent player.

It's just how I see it, Utah can't plan to pay 3 guys big money for 2 positions, especially not when they have basically nobody on the perimeter except Hayward who also will be getting payed within 2 years.

The reference to the heat chart shows that Aldridge is versatile; unlike the other players you referenced. Also, hickson gets wide open jumpers and is dared to shoot because its a better poison than Aldridge. I don't understand how you don't see Aldridge and his outside and inside threat provides open shots for other players.

Aldridge isn't drawing extra attention taking 18ft jumpers. Like other posters have said in other threads, Aldridge taking most of his shots from beyond 10ft with a FG% of 41.8% and effectively scoring 0.836 points per FGA is frankly exactly what other teams want him to be doing, and isn't making us a better team. It's the inside part of his game that opens people up, but if he's not gonna do that then he's not drawing any extra attention, hell it's usually his man doing the double on Lillard on the pick and pop.

 

[Run BJM]

2: Singler is more of a throw in (and I forgot I'd throw Freelands contract at Detroit too), but he's a nice roleplayer. Can hit open shots better than anyone else we have on the bench and he's only making 1M a year. Look at the numbers Harrison 'FUCKING' Barnes vs Singler this season, he doesn't have the upside but it's funny given some posters love of Barnes.

You're comparing a 20 year old to a 24 year old, and Barnes went 6/7 FGs in their last match up and had 3 or 4 dunks in that game, at least one of which was a blow by of Singler in a half court set. Singler looks like a decent role player but he really isn't a starter if your team is any good. Would be a nice bench player though and I like him.

Aldridge is a difficult situation to deal with because he has so much more ability than these other guys that are being discussed, but he chooses instead to play like a wimp and it brings his effectiveness down to their level. I'd probably lean toward holding onto him and trying to get a coach who can get the most out of him or hope that if the team is more successful then he will start doing the dirty work that helps teams win. That said, if you think even low post scoring is dirty work then it is a big red flag.

 

[magnifier661]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/monrogr01/shooting/2013/

Oh and looking at this shot chart; he's 30-32% with any shot Monroe takes that isn't at the rim. And he almost shoots 50% of those shots outside of the rim. That is god awful for a big man!

 

[magnifier661]

The current cap is 58M, 60M would only be an increase of 2. And I see a minimum of ~46M in cap commitments even with renouncing everyone and losing our pick, that's 14M in room with a 60M cap, which is barely enough for the lowest possible 'max'. Millsap, for an example already brought up in this thread but not likely to get the max, qualifies for a max of 16.4M this offseason.

Okay sounds fair, but I'm not one that has endorsed that we need to toss max at a player.

I got the dig, and called it a ridiculous premise, did you miss that?

Then why use the per argument before?

Aldridge isn't drawing extra attention taking 18ft jumpers. Like other posters have said in other threads, Aldridge taking most of his shots from beyond 10ft with a FG% of 41.8% and effectively scoring 0.836 points per FGA is frankly exactly what other teams want him to be doing, and isn't making us a better team. It's the inside part of his game that opens people up, but if he's not gonna do that then he's not drawing any extra attention, hell it's usually his man doing the double on Lillard on the pick and pop.

But you want Monroe that shoots 30-32% anywhere outside of the rim. How does that help? Then you must factor that Monroe is a terrible defender too. It's a mistake man!

 

[Jayps15]

That's a bunch of bullshit. First off, Aldridge came in extremely raw and undersized. Monroe was already a solid center build. Aldridge proved his work ethic and developed into a solid of frame. He also developed his inside game to compliment his outside shooting.

Aldridge was the pick and pop player because we had Roy needing his outside shot. The moment Roy went down, we saw the lamonster playing inside and dominating.

How quickly you forget.

Monroe doesn't demand doubles like Aldridge does. But like your lack of committing to aldridges 4th quarter over/under last game; you will refuse any logical response anyway

Except LaMonster is gone, he's not going inside and he's taking a ton of low efficiency jumpers. All we've been talking about is this season, if you wanna overlook the down year LMA is having and bring up his best years then why not look at Monroe's too?

Don't use logic. Don't you know that most of these guys are only concerned about offense. Monroe is awesome because he can score. Never mind his terrible defense. We don't need defense man!!!!

Come on, neither player is a defensive juggernaut, they're both playing for bad defensive teams. The Pistons as a team have the 23rd worst defensive efficiency, 107.7pts per 100possessions. With Monroe on the court they give up 106.1, and without him they give up even more to the tune of 110.2. The Blazers are 25th, giving up 108.8 with Aldridge and 110.4 without him.

 

[magnifier661]

Except LaMonster is gone, he's not going inside and he's taking a ton of low efficiency jumpers. All we've been talking about is this season, if you wanna overlook the down year LMA is having and bring up his best years then why not look at Monroe's too?

I don't believe that for a minute. His monster numbers were just last season. He is on a new team with a new coach. Stotts has tried using Aldridge like dirk; which is a huge mistake. I suspect he will have good number years next season. Also, pair him with a decent defensive center and he should be much much better.

Come on, neither player is a defensive juggernaut, they're both playing for bad defensive teams. The Pistons as a team have the 23rd worst defensive efficiency, 107.7pts per 100possessions. With Monroe on the court they give up 106.1, and without him they give up even more to the tune of 110.2. The Blazers are 25th, giving up 108.8 with Aldridge and 110.4 without him.

Compared to Monroe, Aldridge is much much better. And Monroe is god awful from anywhere outside of the rim. You want a 30% perimeter replacement for Aldridge? Monroe shoots almost 50% of his shots at a 30% rate. Ouch!!!

 

[Jayps15]

But you want Monroe that shoots 30-32% anywhere outside of the rim. How does that help? Then you must factor that Monroe is a terrible defender too. It's a mistake man!

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...shooting/2013/

Oh and looking at this shot chart; he's 30-32% with any shot Monroe takes that isn't at the rim. And he almost shoots 50% of those shots outside of the rim. That is god awful for a big man!

I don't want LMA or Monroe to be taking that many shots away from the rim, that's the point, that I prefer a big getting most of his FGA at the rim. At least Monroe is only taking 43% of his shots away from the rim to LMA's 79%!

 

[magnifier661]

I don't want LMA or Monroe to be taking that many shots away from the rim, that's the point, that I prefer a big getting most of his FGA at the rim. At least Monroe is only taking 43% of his shots away from the rim to LMA's 79%!

Dude Monroe is shooting 33% from 5 feet from the basket! Do you understand those are really fucking close. Aldridge is shooting a high% from that area.

And you say you don't want Monroe shooting there; yet he has a history of shooting almost 50% of his shots from there.

 

[Jayps15]

I don't believe that for a minute. His monster numbers were just last season. He is on a new team with a new coach. Stotts has tried using Aldridge like dirk; which is a huge mistake. I suspect he will have good number years next season. Also, pair him with a decent defensive center and he should be much much better.

If we're talking about just a year ago then why not bring in Monroe's numbers from that same time frame? Because even going there Monroe was still comparable, they're both having down years, but you wanna give LMA a pass.

Compared to Monroe, Aldridge is much much better. And Monroe is god awful from anywhere outside of the rim. You want a 30% perimeter replacement for Aldridge? Monroe shoots almost 50% of his shots at a 30% rate. Ouch!!!

I don't think Aldridge is a much much better defender at all, they're both leading their teams in minutes for big men and their teams are 23rd and 25th in the league defensively.

And see my other post on Monroe taking outside shots, fact is him taking 43% of his shots away from the rim is a knock, but so is Aldridge taking 79% of his from out there too.

I'll take the guy taking 57% of his shots at the rim, to the guy only taking 21% of his shots at the rim.

 

[magnifier661]

If we're talking about just a year ago then why not bring in Monroe's numbers from that same time frame? Because even going there Monroe was still comparable, they're both having down years, but you wanna give LMA a pass.

How are they similar? I looked it up and Aldridge scoring and efficiency was much better.

I don't think Aldridge is a much much better defender at all, they're both leading their teams in minutes for big men and their teams are 23rd and 25th in the league defensively.

And see my other post on Monroe taking outside shots, fact is him taking 43% of his shots away from the rim is a knock, but so is Aldridge taking 79% of his from out there too.

Aldridge needs to bring that number down. I agree with that statement; but the ability to drain them is also a plus. But how much of that is blamed on Aldridge or on stotts. It's pretty obvious that stotts tried using Aldridge like dirk. That was a huge mistake. I've seen those shots go down. His 10ft fade away isn't a bad shot, IMO.

And keep in mind that he gets a lot of those perimeter shots on a last second shot attempt. That is the worst shot to take, but he is usually asked to take them. I like that Aldridge is up for the challenge. A good sign of a team player.

 

[Rhal]

I don't think Aldridge is a much much better defender at all, they're both leading their teams in minutes for big men and their teams are 23rd and 25th in the league defensively.

That's a situation that the eye test and numbers don't come close to matching up. I don't watch a whole lot of pistons games but when i do i dont see monroe even try on that side of the floor. LA does a heck of a lot more and shows a lot more effort then Monroe.
Go talk to pistons fans or read articles their beat riders put out and they blast Monroe for his D and lack of effort on that end of the court.


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