Who was Jesus?

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magnifier661 said:
Jesus was a real historical figure. There is more historical record of Jesus than Julius Caesar.
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I think it's probable a man Jesus existed and at least in part was incorporated into NT stories, although there really is no way to be certain so anyone who claims certainty either way (as in "no doubt") is full of it.

However the comparison to Caesar is just silly propaganda. There are numerous contemporaneous (during his lifetime) extant records of and references to Julius Caesar, including his own writings, statues, even contemporaneous coins with his image. On the other hand there are zero contemporaneous records of the existence of Jesus, or even soon after his death. Everything we have is from decades if not centuries after the fact, which is why his existence is debatable. In any case there is comparison to Caesar.
 
crowTrobot said:
I think it's probable a man Jesus existed and at least in part was incorporated into NT stories, although there really is no way to be certain so anyone who claims certainty either way (as in "no doubt") is full of it.

However the comparison to Caesar is just silly propaganda. There are numerous contemporaneous (during his lifetime) extant records of and references to Julius Caesar, including his own writings, statues, even contemporaneous coins with his image. On the other hand there are zero contemporaneous records of the existence of Jesus, or even soon after his death. Everything we have is from decades if not centuries after the fact, which is why his existence is debatable. In any case there is comparison to Caesar.
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Unfortunately you are missing the historian accounts from the letters of Paul. Paul was around only years after jesus was crucified.

And furthermore; there is no refuting Caesar existed because we use the same type of historical evidence as we would for anyone else in his time period. And as the scholar said; there is more evidence about Jesus existing than anyone else in his time period.

I only use Caesar as a reference of "if you believe Caesar existed; then you have to adopt Jesus existed.
 
BlazersFanatic said:
Honestly I would probably question evolution before I would question Jesus being real. Historical proof of Jesus Jesus Mentioned in old Text
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you should read up on the synoptic problem. there are almost no scholars who are taken seriously any more who would say the gospels (with the possible exception of Mark) represent individual eyewitness accounts of Jesus, or were even authored by their namesakes. any website that makes this claim is immediately suspect as propaganda rather than serious study.

also all the quotes referenced are either of dubious origin, or simply represent the trivial acknowledgment that a legend of Jesus existed decades after his death.

For those who believe Darwinism is the answer to life please check out this site National Academy of Sciences refuted
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Darwinism/evolution does not make any specific claims about the origin of life (abiogenesis).
 
magnifier661 said:
Unfortunately you are missing the historian accounts from the letters of Paul.
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Paul didn't claim to be a contemporaneous witness obviously. He's irrelevant. Clearly whether Jesus existed or not there would have had to be a legend developing around the time of Paul. I don't think anyone disputes that.

And furthermore; there is no refuting Caesar existed because we use the same type of historical evidence as we would for anyone else in his time period. And as the scholar said; there is more evidence about Jesus existing than anyone else in his time period.
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you're not understanding the difference.
 
Baracuda said:
BULLSHIT!
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What! How can you doubt the existence of the main man? He has every bit as good a credentials as CHRISNA or Krishna if you prefer. Both could walk on water, preform miracles, come to us via immaculate conception, suffer crucification and resurrection. Seeking mortal evidence of such a man seems like you can't quite grasp the significance of his being or appreciate his pay scale.
 
MarAzul said:
What! How can you doubt the existence of the main man? He has every bit as good a credentials as CHRISNA or Krishna if you prefer. Both could walk on water, preform miracles, come to us via immaculate conception, suffer crucification and resurrection. Seeking mortal evidence of such a man seems like you can't quite grasp the significance of his being or appreciate his pay scale.
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I'm pickin' up what your're putin' down my man, but it ain't my thang, ya dig?
 
The Messiah was supposed to overthrow the enemies – and so if you're going to make up a messiah, you'd make up a powerful messiah," he says. "You wouldn't make up somebody who was humiliated, tortured and the killed by the enemies."
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I don't find this terribly compelling. There were a number of self-described messiahs wandering around back then. They had all kinds of schticks. It may be that his just happened to work, while all the guys who said they were Larry Awesomeballs and had conquered Jupiter and fucked all the bitches in Atlantis didn't. Maybe Jesus' schtick worked BECAUSE he wasn't all glory-hoggy.

Imagine you are a strand of spaghetti, and you along with all the other spaghetti in the bowl claim that you are made of super glue. All the strands are licking themselves to appear more shiny. You, meanwhile, say fuck that and just kind of lay there. Somebody picks up the bowl and hurls it at a wall. You just happen to stick while all the other spaghetti strands fall off (where my dog Violet devours them in a homicidal frenzy.) That doesn't mean you are made of superglue. It just means there was a shitload of spaghetti, and one of you was bound to stick. Maybe you stuck because you were a little drier than the rest. Or maybe you were just having a good noodle day.
 
Honestly, we could get off on this tangent of Jesus vs Caesar, but I think that most likely (certainly in Caesars case) they were both alive in their attributed times. I am more interested in this:

Given that Jesus did exist, how do you account for almost all of the stories surrounding his birth, life and death had been previously attributed to characters at least hundreds of years earlier. Including being of divine father and mortal mother, known as the savior of the world, Prophets foretold his birth and claimed he would be a king, which started a search by a leader who wanted to kill him, walked on water, called "son of god", born of a virgin mother, healed the sick and turned water to wine, he was killed but was resurrected and became immortal, reatest accomplishment was his own death, which delivers humanity itself, known as light of the world and The good shepherd and Lamb and refereed to as The way, the truth, and the life. birth was witnessed by local shepherds who brought him gifts, had 12 disciples, when he was done on earth he had a final meal before going up to heaven. On judgment day he’ll return to pass judgment on the living and the dead, The good will go to heaven, and the evil will die in a giant fire. miraculous conception that wise men were able to come to because they were guided by a star, After he was born an area ruler tried to have him found and killed. His parents were warned by a divine messenger, however, and they escaped and was met by shepherds.He healed the sick, cured the blind and deaf, and he walked on water. And more.
 
HailBlazers said:
No, people get all pissed when you spout your opinion about something that you've never read or studied. #ignorance
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I'm just not into fiction man, my bad.


Sent from HCPs Baller-Ass iPhone 5...FAMS!
 
GOD said:
Honestly, we could get off on this tangent of Jesus vs Caesar, but I think that most likely (certainly in Caesars case) they were both alive in their attributed times. I am more interested in this:

Given that Jesus did exist, how do you account for almost all of the stories surrounding his birth, life and death had been previously attributed to characters at least hundreds of years earlier. Including being of divine father and mortal mother, known as the savior of the world, Prophets foretold his birth and claimed he would be a king, which started a search by a leader who wanted to kill him, walked on water, called "son of god", born of a virgin mother, healed the sick and turned water to wine, he was killed but was resurrected and became immortal, reatest accomplishment was his own death, which delivers humanity itself, known as light of the world and The good shepherd and Lamb and refereed to as The way, the truth, and the life. birth was witnessed by local shepherds who brought him gifts, had 12 disciples, when he was done on earth he had a final meal before going up to heaven. On judgment day he’ll return to pass judgment on the living and the dead, The good will go to heaven, and the evil will die in a giant fire. miraculous conception that wise men were able to come to because they were guided by a star, After he was born an area ruler tried to have him found and killed. His parents were warned by a divine messenger, however, and they escaped and was met by shepherds.He healed the sick, cured the blind and deaf, and he walked on water. And more.
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There was already comments about that. Also some of the stories were revised after Christ; even though the characters are older. Meaning; the pagan stories evolved long after Christianity existed.
 
I know that there were writings of many of them from centuries before Jesus. Do you have a way that you reconcile tales of walking on water and turning water into wine existing before Jesus? Or, do you just not contemplate this issue?
 
magnifier661 said:
There was already comments about that. Also some of the stories were revised after Christ; even though the characters are older. Meaning; the pagan stories evolved long after Christianity existed.
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Well what ever! I do know that after careful study, I prefer to live among the Christians, the Jews and Buddhists are ok too. The atheists are just too unpredictable and the Moslem's are just plain intolerant, they call me Infidel. Worse yet, they have a plethora of unspeakables they prescribe in their good book as to what to do with the likes of me.
 
mook said:
I don't find this terribly compelling. There were a number of self-described messiahs wandering around back then. They had all kinds of schticks. It may be that his just happened to work, while all the guys who said they were Larry Awesomeballs and had conquered Jupiter and fucked all the bitches in Atlantis didn't. Maybe Jesus' schtick worked BECAUSE he wasn't all glory-hoggy.

Imagine you are a strand of spaghetti, and you along with all the other spaghetti in the bowl claim that you are made of super glue. All the strands are licking themselves to appear more shiny. You, meanwhile, say fuck that and just kind of lay there. Somebody picks up the bowl and hurls it at a wall. You just happen to stick while all the other spaghetti strands fall off (where my dog Violet devours them in a homicidal frenzy.) That doesn't mean you are made of superglue. It just means there was a shitload of spaghetti, and one of you was bound to stick. Maybe you stuck because you were a little drier than the rest. Or maybe you were just having a good noodle day.
Click to expand...

Personally, I think Jesus had two giant meaty balls.

fsm.jpg
 
I guess I've never really understood the zeal with which atheists spend their time telling anyone who will listen exactly what they don't believe in. Seems like rather odd behavior to me.

Not that I expect it will change many minds, but here's a pretty decent presentation of some of the secular historical evidence for Jesus: http://www.probe.org/site/c.fdKEIMN...dence_for_Jesus_from_NonChristian_Sources.htm
 
e_blazer said:
I guess I've never really understood the zeal with which atheists spend their time telling anyone who will listen exactly what they don't believe in. Seems like rather odd behavior to me.

Not that I expect it will change many minds, but here's a pretty decent presentation of some of the secular historical evidence for Jesus: http://www.probe.org/site/c.fdKEIMN...dence_for_Jesus_from_NonChristian_Sources.htm
Click to expand...

Like I said, Jesus could manifest himself in front of these people and they would still not believe. Hell he was alive back then, performing miracles and people still didn't believe.

They will believe one day. That I'm sure of.
 
magnifier661 said:
And so do you. That's called "being human"
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no idea what you mean by that.

I was just saying most atheists would actually be fairly easy to convert to believers if a god existed and had any interest in their belief.
 
magnifier661 said:
Like I said, Jesus could manifest himself in front of these people and they would still not believe. Hell he was alive back then, performing miracles and people still didn't believe.

They will believe one day. That I'm sure of.
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Most atheists just follow the evidence. If there is tangible evidence, we believe. I'm willing to believe in the strange and bizarre if there is evidence, I believe in quantum entanglement, and what's more spooky than that?
 
crowTrobot said:
no idea what you mean by that.

I was just saying most atheists would actually be fairly easy to convert to believers if a god existed and had any interest in their belief.
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They will all convert. Just in bad timing.
 
GOD said:
Most atheists just follow the evidence. If there is tangible evidence, we believe. I'm willing to believe in the strange and bizarre if there is evidence, I believe in quantum entanglement, and what's more spooky than that?
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Most agnostic does. ;)
 
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