Who was Jesus?

[GriLtCheeZ]

Right back at you. I suspect jesus himself could manifest in front of you and you will still not believe. And peace also with you.

No, I'd be on my knees kissing the lords feet if that shit happened.

 

[Jesus Christ Son of God]

Like I said, Jesus could manifest himself in front of these people and they would still not believe.

TAH-DAH!

 

[BlazerCaravan]

No, I'd be on my knees kissing the lords feet if that shit happened.

But because you followed the scientific method, you would be cast into hellfire.

 

[magnifier661]

But because you followed the scientific method, you would be cast into hellfire.

I always wonder what would go on in the mind of a man that knows he will be judged and cast out? I mean we see people begging not to die, shitting themselves, or crying hysterically. If you died and all the sudden you are ascending to heaven; knowing what your fate is.

I could see myself telling me "if I only took advice and actually listened"

I don't know. Maybe they would tell God off and say its all his fault for being so mysterious. Seems selfish enough for man I guess.

 

[jlprk]

Here's what Western intelligence agencies are doing to Christians.

http://www.asianews.it/news-en/Al-Q...the-religious-hatred-of-the-rebels-28144.html

And Republicans want a much bigger war there!

 

[Jesus Christ Son of God]

 

[3RA1N1AC]

all the god fearing peeps up in here could very well end up in hell too if there is one

 

[crowTrobot]

I always wonder what would go on in the mind of a man that knows he will be judged and cast out? I mean we see people begging not to die, shitting themselves, or crying hysterically. If you died and all the sudden you are ascending to heaven; knowing what your fate is.

I could see myself telling me "if I only took advice and actually listened"

I don't know. Maybe they would tell God off and say its all his fault for being so mysterious. Seems selfish enough for man I guess.

A lot of us would just be descending into hell laughing. The christian god and plan of salvation are so ludicrous if it were true it would actually be comical. Like a farce of logic.

 

[ABM]

all the god fearing peeps up in here could very well end up in hell too if there is one

I have no doubt I'm going to Heaven.

"My purpose in writing is simply this: that you who believe in God’s Son will know beyond the shadow of a doubt that you have eternal life, the reality and not the illusion." 1 John 5:13 - The Message Translation

 

[ABM]

A lot of us would just be descending into hell laughing. The christian god and plan of salvation are so ludicrous if it were true it would actually be comical. Like a farce of logic.

The Message that points to Christ on the Cross seems like sheer silliness to those hellbent on destruction, but for those on the way of salvation it makes perfect sense. This is the way God works, and most powerfully as it turns out. It’s written,

'I’ll turn conventional wisdom on its head, I’ll expose so-called experts as crackpots.'

So where can you find someone truly wise, truly educated, truly intelligent in this day and age? Hasn’t God exposed it all as pretentious nonsense? Since the world in all its fancy wisdom never had a clue when it came to knowing God, God in his wisdom took delight in using what the world considered dumb—preaching, of all things!—to bring those who trust him into the way of salvation. 1 Corinthians 1:18-21

...

 

[SlyPokerDog]

I have no doubt I'm going to Heaven.

I have a curious question for you, in previous threads you have stated that you believe in biblical literalism yet I notice that you've started posting these message translations. Isn't someone's translation or reinterpretation of the bible taking about from it's literal meaning?

These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God. John 5:13

 

[ABM]

I have a curious question for you, in previous threads you have stated that you believe in biblical literalism yet I notice that you've started posting these message translations. Isn't someone's translation or reinterpretation of the bible taking about from it's literal meaning?

These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God. John 5:13

Nope. The Gospel of Jesus Christ is simple. Any and all translations steer towards that same simple meaning. I only post these other translations (particularly, The Message) as to bring it into modern day terms. Again, the basic, simple message is the same. In fact, Jesus said we should come to him as little children (ie. full of wonderment, faith, and without a bunch of pre-conceived notions/agendas.)

 

[Sinobas]

There's almost nothing in the gospels that you can line up with history. Even some of the basic things such as the geography, and leaders are off. Josephus wrote an extensive history of events leading up to the Jewish war with Rome and it would have been really bizzare for him to omit an act like the slaughter of the innocents, or such a major character as Jesus and the events proported in the gospels.

In fact, the only mention of Jesus in Josephus is a medieval forgery.

 

[VanillaGorilla]

Nope. The Gospel of Jesus Christ is simple. Any and all translations steer towards that same simple meaning. I only post these other translations (particularly, The Message) as to bring it into modern day terms. Again, the basic, simple message is the same. In fact, Jesus said we should come to him as little children (ie. full of wonderment, faith, and without a bunch of pre-conceived notions/agendas.)

We all know "Jesus" attracts the simple and weak minded. That's why children are the best targets.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Nope. The Gospel of Jesus Christ is simple. Any and all translations steer towards that same simple meaning. I only post these other translations (particularly, The Message) as to bring it into modern day terms. Again, the basic, simple message is the same. In fact, Jesus said we should come to him as little children (ie. full of wonderment, faith, and without a bunch of pre-conceived notions/agendas.)

I thought you were using The Message, even the author admits he's taking a lot of liberties with the bible.

New International Version

9. “This, then, is how you should pray: ‘Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name,
10. your kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
11. Give us today our daily bread.
12. Forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors.
13. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one.’
​

King James Version

9. After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
10. Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
11. Give us this day our daily bread.
12. And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
13. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.
​

New King James Version

9. In this manner, therefore, pray: Our Father in heaven,Hallowed be Your name.
10. Your kingdom come. Your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
11. Give us this day our daily bread.
12. And forgive us our debts, As we forgive our debtors.
13. And do not lead us into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one. For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen.
​

New Living Translation

9. Pray like this: Our Father in heaven, may your name be kept holy.
10. May your Kingdom come soon. May your will be done on earth, as it is in heaven.
11. Give us today the food we need,
12. and forgive us our sins, as we have forgiven those who sin against us.
13. And don’t let us yield to temptation, but rescue us from the evil one.
​

The Message

9-13 With a God like this loving you, you can pray very simply. Like this:
Our Father in heaven,
Reveal who you are.
Set the world right;
Do what's best— as above, so below.
Keep us alive with three square meals.
Keep us forgiven with you and forgiving others.
Keep us safe from ourselves and the Devil.
You're in charge!
You can do anything you want!
You're ablaze in beauty!
Yes. Yes. Yes.




Although The Message is used commonly in congregations, Peterson stated his uneasiness with this in a Christianity Today interview:
“ When I'm in a congregation where somebody uses [The Message] in the Scripture reading, it makes me a little uneasy. I would never recommend it be used as saying, "Hear the Word of God from The Message." But it surprises me how many do.[4] ”​

 

[ABM]

Although The Message is used commonly in congregations, Peterson stated his uneasiness with this in a Christianity Today interview:
“ When I'm in a congregation where somebody uses [The Message] in the Scripture reading, it makes me a little uneasy. I would never recommend it be used as saying, "Hear the Word of God from The Message." But it surprises me how many do.[4] ” [/INDENT]

Personally, I use the NIV. That said, nothing I've ever read in The Message has altered basic Christian tenets. Again, the Gospel is very, very simple to understand and live your life by. I'd encourage you to come to church with me some Sunday!

 

[crowTrobot]

There's almost nothing in the gospels that you can line up with history. Even some of the basic things such as the geography, and leaders are off. Josephus wrote an extensive history of events leading up to the Jewish war with Rome and it would have been really bizzare for him to omit an act like the slaughter of the innocents, or such a major character as Jesus and the events proported in the gospels.

the apologist's argument is that Jesus was NOT a major character at the time, not someone roman historians would be likely to even be aware of, which has some merit.

however you are right about some events mentioned in one or more of the Gospels, particularly stuff like a major earthquake followed by an outbreak of zombies : )

In fact, the only mention of Jesus in Josephus is a medieval forgery.

What we have now is likely at least an embellishment of a reference. However it is possible Josephus referenced Jesus, twice in fact.

 

[crowTrobot]

Nope. The Gospel of Jesus Christ is simple. Any and all translations steer towards that same simple meaning. I only post these other translations (particularly, The Message) as to bring it into modern day terms. Again, the basic, simple message is the same. In fact, Jesus said we should come to him as little children (ie. full of wonderment, faith, and without a bunch of pre-conceived notions/agendas.)

so are non-repentant gay christians going to heaven or not? should you be telling them they are sinners? if the bible is so simple why are that issue and many others still so contentious?

 

[ABM]

so are non-repentant gay christians going to heaven or not? should you be telling them they are sinners? if the bible is so simple why are that issue and many others still so contentious?

Because we live in a sinful word in which man wants his/her own way. Narrow is the way that leads to Jesus. Simple, yet narrow.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Because we live in a sinful word in which man wants his/her own way.

 

[crowTrobot]

Because we live in a sinful word in which man wants his/her own way. Narrow is the way that leads to Jesus. Simple, yet narrow.

dodge!!!!!

nice platitude. interpreting the bible is obviously not simple. interpretations of what exactly the path to jesus entails vary widely because almost all Christians including you pick and choose what to take literally and how to apply it, generally through the filter of your own personally derived notions of morality and what your own common sense will allow.

 

[magnifier661]

A lot of us would just be descending into hell laughing. The christian god and plan of salvation are so ludicrous if it were true it would actually be comical. Like a farce of logic.

Laughing? It's easy to mock and poke fun I guess since you haven't seen; but if I'm right; I highly doubt you would be laughing. Nice try though.

 

[magnifier661]

all the god fearing peeps up in here could very well end up in hell too if there is one

I don't fear God. I love him.

 

[crowTrobot]

Laughing? It's easy to mock and poke fun I guess since you haven't seen; but if I'm right; I highly doubt you would be laughing. Nice try though.

I wouldn't be changing my mind about the nature of god if he exists and was actually the god described in the bible. He would still be a cruel sadistic genocidal megalomaniac that I would never be able to willingly love or worship even if threatened with hell.

It is fortunate he doesn't exist, yes. It's fortunate hungry underbridge dwelling trolls don't exist, too.

 

[magnifier661]

I wouldn't be changing my mind about the nature of god if he exists and was actually the god described in the bible. He would still be a cruel sadistic genocidal megalomaniac that I would never be able to willingly love or worship even if threatened with hell.

It is fortunate he doesn't exist, yes. It's fortunate hungry underbridge dwelling trolls don't exist, too.

Obviously you have proof right?

 

[ABM]

dodge!!!!!

nice platitude. interpreting the bible is obviously not simple. interpretations of what exactly the path to jesus entails vary widely because almost all Christians including you pick and choose what to take literally and how to apply it, generally through the filter of your own personally derived notions of morality and what your own common sense will allow.

Believing in Christ is simple. It's the following part that gets people tripped up. Nonetheless, it's a decision.....one that you seemingly want no part of.

 

[Sinobas]

the apologist's argument is that Jesus was NOT a major character at the time, not someone roman historians would be likely to even be aware of, which has some merit.

however you are right about some events mentioned in one or more of the Gospels, particularly stuff like a major earthquake followed by an outbreak of zombies : )



What we have now is likely at least an embellishment of a reference. However it is possible Josephus referenced Jesus, twice in fact.

He mentioned many Jesus' but none that you could tie to the gospel myth, or the myth of a god man who incarnated as his own son to be crucified for the sins of humanity. If you keep peeling away the layers of the Jesus myth you're not left with anything.

 

[crowTrobot]

Believing in Christ is simple. It's the following part that gets people tripped up.

you were talking about interpreting the bible in your prior posts, not belief.

nonetheless, it's a decision.....one that you seemingly want no part of.

genuine belief is compelled by evidence. it is not a decision.

 

[crowTrobot]

He mentioned many Jesus' but none that you could tie to the gospel myth

Maybe, but I don't think that's necessarily considered an established fact even among secular scholars, and I'm wary of giving apologists ammunition by claiming it is. The main reference is certainly dubious.

 

[ABM]

you were talking about interpreting the bible in your prior posts, not belief.



genuine belief is compelled by evidence. it is not a decision.

Despite how well someone might interpret the Bible, or not (some folks can barely read), it boils down to a pure and genuine faith. That's it. To be honest, I wouldn't have had to read one word in the Bible, yet still be saved......that is if I simply put my trust in Jesus after hearing about what He has done for me. In fact, the same happened with the sinner on the cross next to Jesus.

Faith, really, has nothing directly to do with evidence. Doesn't mean, though, that it's not consistently bolstered in my life through confirmation upon confirmation.

Hebrews 11:1 states, "Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see."

The entire chapter of Hebrews 11 goes over some of the elements of faith.

The fact that there are a number different translations is virtual semantics. My comments regarding The Message vs. other translations were merely in response to Sly's direct questions on the subject.