Who would you give up to get Rubio?

[julius]

Whats the difference between rubio and sergio? Hair color.

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

I don't understand the poll; if ACPEB3 is any player besides the big three, how can there be a choice like Rudy PLUS ACPEB3? It seems he (and Batum) would already be included. Perhaps if the choices were "ACPEB3 without Rudy" or "ACPEB3 without Batum", I would understand it better.

I would be willing to include any players besides the big three and Przbilla and Batum, those are the big 5 for me.

 

[Minstrel]

I don't understand the poll; if ACPEB3 is any player besides the big three, how can there be a choice like Rudy PLUS ACPEB3? It seems he (and Batum) would already be included. Perhaps if the choices were "ACPEB3 without Rudy" or "ACPEB3 without Batum", I would understand it better.

That threw me, too, at first. Then I realized that the "+" was adding the additional player(s) to the "Any combination of players except..."

So "ACBEB3 + Rudy" means "Any combination of players except the Big 3 and Rudy"...i.e. Rudy is off the table also.

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

OK, that makes more sense, thanks for the clarification.

 

[alex42083]

I voted "Nobody, he's an overrated bum", and here's why: DEFENSE

Perhaps this is a little bit of guilt by association, as the only real opportunity I had to watch Rubio was the Olympics, but Spanish PGs all see to be goo to great passers who can't play a lick of defense. Calderon = great passer, horrible defender, Sergio = good passer, horrible defender, Raul Lopez = decent passer, horrible defender, etc.

So, I predict Rubio will be a great passer, but a horrible defender and what this team needs more than a great passer is an above average defender at the PG position. He's not the answer. If we could actually move up high enough in the draft to get Rubio, there are several other players I'd take over him.

BNM

I'm going with you on this one. I know a lot of people are high on Rubio here, but with such a premium on having a great PG nowadays like Rose last year, I don't think there's even an argument that Griffin is the consensus No. 1.
There's no doubt that Rubio is talented, but he seems like another anti-Nate PG who'll be broken down considerably to be built back up. I think we're ready to challenge for the WCF next season, and I don't know if another 18-year-old prospect to develop is the best way to go. We need to bring in guys who are ready to go, and help us.

 

[Boob-No-More]

I'm going with you on this one. I know a lot of people are high on Rubio here, but with such a premium on having a great PG nowadays like Rose last year, I don't think there's even an argument that Griffin is the consensus No. 1.
There's no doubt that Rubio is talented, but he seems like another anti-Nate PG who'll be broken down considerably to be built back up. I think we're ready to challenge for the WCF next season, and I don't know if another 18-year-old prospect to develop is the best way to go. We need to bring in guys who are ready to go, and help us.

It's not that I think Rubio sucks or will be a bust. I just think he's currently overvalued (over hyped) and it will cost too much to get him.

Also, as you say, we need some veteran leadership on this team. Not more young guys. If the price wasn't so steep, Rubio would be a huge upgrade at back-up PG and could take over as the starter after a year or two of backing up Blake - but that wouldn't do much to help this team win now.

Ideally, I'd prefer an upgrade at PG with an experienced, proven veteran (like Andre Miller). Or, if we're going to move up in the draft to grab a young PG, I'd rather go for someone like Tyreke Evans or Ty Lawson who both should be available in the 7 - 12 range. We'd have to give up a lot less to grab one of these guys than it would take to move up into the top 3 to land Rubio.

My dream scenario...

Between our cap space, the trade exception we got in the Diogu/Ruffin trade and the MLE we should be able to land a vet like Miller and possibly even work a sign-and-trade with Milwaukee for Ramon Sessions. That would give us immediate vet help and a year or two down the road when age catches up with Miller, him and Sessions could swap roles. Miller is a smart enough player (and has been healthy enough throughout his career) that I think he'd still make a great backup PG for 15 minutes a game into his mid to late 30s.

And while I'm fantasizing, we could then move up 10 or 12 spots (perhaps get the 14th pick from Phoenix) in the draft and grab DeJuan Blair as out back-up banger power forward. The guy's a fearless rebounding animal and would give us the bulk and toughness we currently lack at the back-up 4 spot. He would be our Paul Millsap.

BNM

 

[EPIC FAIL GILDERHUS]

It's not that I think Rubio sucks or will be a bust. I just think he's currently overvalued (over hyped) and it will cost too much to get him.

Also, as you say, we need some veteran leadership on this team. Not more young guys. If the price wasn't so steep, Rubio would be a huge upgrade at back-up PG and could take over as the starter after a year or two of backing up Blake - but that wouldn't do much to help this team win now.

Ideally, I'd prefer an upgrade at PG with an experienced, proven veteran (like Andre Miller). Or, if we're going to move up in the draft to grab a young PG, I'd rather go for someone like Tyreke Evans or Ty Lawson who both should be available in the 7 - 12 range. We'd have to give up a lot less to grab one of these guys than it would take to move up into the top 3 to land Rubio.

My dream scenario...

Between our cap space, the trade exception we got in the Diogu/Ruffin trade and the MLE we should be able to land a vet like Miller and possibly even work a sign-and-trade with Milwaukee for Ramon Sessions. That would give us immediate vet help and a year or two down the road when age catches up with Miller, him and Sessions could swap roles. Miller is a smart enough player (and has been healthy enough throughout his career) that I think he'd still make a great backup PG for 15 minutes a game into his mid to late 30s.

And while I'm fantasizing, we could then move up 10 or 12 spots (perhaps get the 14th pick from Phoenix) in the draft and grab DeJuan Blair as out back-up banger power forward. The guy's a fearless rebounding animal and would give us the bulk and toughness we currently lack at the back-up 4 spot. He would be our Paul Millsap.

BNM

Couldn't agree more-the last thing we need on this team is another project at a critical position like SF or PG. Besides, any guy that wears his first name on the back of his jersey (if you aren't Chinese) is borderline douche to me lol. Just think-we could have Chris Paul right now if only KP had ascended to the throne a year earlier May you rot in hell Nash and Patterson.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

No, not at all. Chris Paul has the foot speed and lateral quickness to stay in front of other NBA point guards. Does Rubio? Not that I've seen.

How much HAVE you seen? From your statements you've seen other Spanish guards and made a generalization.

Speed isn't everything. Lots of nippy guards are very mediocre, and Eric Snow was one of the best without being particularly fast. Rubio's problem will be bigger, stronger guards, but he's already a better defender than Steve Blake. And a better athlete.

P.S. Chris Paul is 1st team all-defense. Do you honestly see Ricky Rubio as a future defensive star in the NBA - one of the two best best defending guards in the entire league?

As John Hollinger complains, the "All-Defense" teams this year were a complete joke: voted on for celebrity power. Chris Paul over Rajon Rondo? Please. I would bet you a lot that Rubio's defense is BETTER than Chris Paul's. (Not that that makes Rubio's defense all-NBA, just that Paul's isn't that great.)

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Difference between Rubio and every college PG?

Rubio has played against grown men. In fact, he's played (and played well) against the US National team. (Of course, Brandon Jennings has played against grown men, in a slightly inferior league, and put up PATHETIC stats. Strangely enough, he's still ranked very highly. If he'd put up those stats in College he wouldn't be drafted.)

Assuming that he won't be able to defend because he's Spanish is just laughable. That would mean that in fact Dirk Nowitzki can't be a good player because no other German is. Or that nobody in the NBA plays defense because the majority aren't great at it. Or that Yao Ming doesn't actually shoot FTs well because no other center does.

Find me a draft board that has Rubio ranked lower than #2. Then show me why that one's better than all the others that have him ranked #2. It bemuses me that you (BNM) can have such strong opinions about a player you've seen play such a tiny amount, if at all. You're not actually Kenny Smith, are you? Or Steve Blake?

 

[Rastapopoulos]

That threw me, too, at first. Then I realized that the "+" was adding the additional player(s) to the "Any combination of players except..."

So "ACBEB3 + Rudy" means "Any combination of players except the Big 3 and Rudy"...i.e. Rudy is off the table also.

Correct. Perhaps I should've written ACPE (B3+Rudy).

 

[maxiep]

This is always the time of the year when draft prospects get overrated and players that contribute day in and day out are underrated. I'm not willing to give much up to move up in the draft to get Rubio.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

This is always the time of the year when draft prospects get overrated and players that contribute day in and day out are underrated. I'm not willing to give much up to move up in the draft to get Rubio.

Are those two sentences related?
It's certainly true that undrafted players get WAY hyped prior to the draft. At least amongst the fans. But I doubt you'd go as far as Danny Ainge, who valued the "contributor" Telfair above the #7 pick that netted us (along with some cash) Brandon Roy. However, I certainly hope there are GMs out there who feel the same way as you, and who end up with a chance to draft Rubio.

I guess I'm sounding a bit Rubio-obsessed. (It's that Beatles mop-top!) This is mainly because of the following factors:

1. Watching Steve Blake in the playoffs drove me insane.
2. I LOVE the way Rajon Rondo plays, but realize that we can't have him. (Ironic that the Celtics acquired him at the same time as Telfair...)
3. Watching just about every Spain game in the last Olympics convinced me that Rubio was already their best guard (which pissed me off at the time because I wanted it to be Rudy) and perhaps their best player overall.
4. And his game is very similar to Rondo's.
5. It's become evident that the new rules really favor PGs.
6. Oden doesn't get the ball enough, and when he does it's with his back to the basket, which is not his strength.
7. I don't just want a quick-fix veteran (a la Andre Miller). That's the Whitsitt way. I want a player who is solely a Trail Blazer (that's why I don't really want to get Chris Paul. I wouldn't say NO, of course, but I wouldn't trade Oden for him even though Paul is probably better, just because Paul is a Hornet just as Pippen was really a Bull.) And, while there are players in this draft who would be exciting PGs (Brandon Jennings, that VCU kid, the Wake Forest kid), none of them strikes me as the transcendent pure PG that Rubio is.

We need somebody who can break down defenses and get the ball to Oden facing the rim and a couple of strides away. It would also be nice to have a guy who can create some havoc on defense the way Greg Anthony used to for the turn-of-the-Millennium Blazers. I think Rubio could do both.

Downside? His style does NOT mesh with Nate's. But then again, Nate was advocating more running towards the end of last season, so maybe he's more flexible.

(Oh, and the person who said Rubio = Sergio? That's just silly. Both are gifted passers, to be sure, but Rubio's defense to Sergio's is as Kirk Hinrich to Steve Nash, and Rubio is taller, faster and more athletic. Plus he's a natural leader.)

 

[andalusian]

We need somebody who can break down defenses and get the ball to Oden facing the rim and a couple of strides away. It would also be nice to have a guy who can create some havoc on defense the way Greg Anthony used to for the turn-of-the-Millennium Blazers.

I absolutely agre. Rubio will be fantastic.

 

[RayDavies]

I voted Outlaw, Webster and scrubs. Even in his highlight reels, which is mostly all I have seen of RR other than the Olympics, I am not absolutely floored by him. How will he do against much more athletic defenders than he is used to??? I think it's obvious he has potential, but he looks like a little bit of a risky pick to me.

It's like a comedy trailer that doesn't make you laugh much... if they throw the best stuff in there- and you still don't crack up- the movie might not be so hot.

And Rubio will never be CP3 or Rondo... I don't see the quickness, or the build/athleticism for either of those comparisons.

 

[LittleAlex]

If Portland can get him for some combination of Sergio, Outlaw, Martell, Frye and Blake I would be all for it. Otherwise, no thanks.

I have seen far too many players come into the league a sure thing and turn out to be a bust.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

I voted Outlaw, Webster and scrubs. Even in his highlight reels, which is mostly all I have seen of RR other than the Olympics, I am not absolutely floored by him. How will he do against much more athletic defenders than he is used to???

You mean, more athletic than Chris Paul and Kobe Bryant?
I guess you're assuming that all of the players in the ACB are slow and plodding. A lot of them are the American college players who weren't quite good enough for the NBA. In other words, better, faster, and stronger than the average player the NCAA players will have faced.

I think it's obvious he has potential, but he looks like a little bit of a risky pick to me.

Well, duh. So was Chris Paul. But of course Martell Webster was a sure thing!

It's like a comedy trailer that doesn't make you laugh much... if they throw the best stuff in there- and you still don't crack up- the movie might not be so hot.

Maybe you're looking at different trailers from the ones I'm looking at. Tell you what, find me a Steve Blake one that's more exciting. Or, to be more fair, an Andre Miller one. I try to get excited about the NCAA guards who we have more of a shot at, but every highlight video I watch of them is like a poor man's Bayless - all scoring, no playing D or passing. Rubio's, on the other hand, have scoring as an afterthought, actually being a PG (plus getting steals) as the main attraction.

And Rubio will never be CP3 or Rondo...

I can safely agree with here. But he might end up a better PG than either of them. And we don't know how could he can be eventually. Is he even 20 yet?

I don't see the quickness, or the build/athleticism for either of those comparisons.

Fair enough. I think he's got just as quick hands, and he's taller than either. He's certainly more athletic than, say, Steve Nash. He's probably Kirk Hinrich-ish.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Find me a draft board that has Rubio ranked lower than #2. Then show me why that one's better than all the others that have him ranked #2.

Bingo! Right there's my problem with Rubio - he's so highly "valued" that it will take too much to get him. Also, being ranked high in a mock draft doesn't exactly make someone a lock to be a superstar. Bargnani, Darko, Adam Morrison and Greg Oden (gasp) were all ranked top 3 in most mock drafts. Oden still has a chance to be a dominant player. Bargnani has shown improvement, but he's still not close to being better than players like Aldridge, Roy, Gay, etc. that were drafted after him.

It bemuses me that you (BNM) can have such strong opinions about a player you've seen play such a tiny amount, if at all. You're not actually Kenny Smith, are you? Or Steve Blake?

I'm glad you find me bemusing. I do my best.

BNM

 

[cdub503]

RR is maybe 18 he could easily get the strength needed to handle the other gaurds in the league. Although I'm on the boat of I'm not giving up too much to get him at most I'd throw bayless Blake outlaw and Webster plus scrubs to get him but none of our cores plus pryz,rudy,batum

 

[MrJayremmie]

I would love to have him...

Rubio | ?
Roy | ?
Batum | ?
Aldridge | ?
Oden | Przybilla

honestly, i'd give up anyone now in that above rotation and then build with solid vets. Any combination of Blake, Bayless, Sergio, Webster, Outlaw, Rudy, Frye i'd be fine w/ giving up. Also, our 1st, many seconds, cash, and using our TE to get another 1st rounder (and maybe use the two 1st rounders, cash, 2nd rounders, and a player to move up higher in the first round to make the package more appealing). I'd also be willing to take back contracts since we will be around 7mil under the limit (easy for me to say, lol). Don't see it happening though.

 

[hasoos]

Most NBA guards can't stop each other. Is it so critical?

and most NBA guards aren't capable of leading their team to a championship because of it either. Defense wins in the NBA playoffs.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

and most NBA guards aren't capable of leading their team to a championship because of it either. Defense wins in the NBA playoffs.

Let's see: PGs on championship teams.
Rondo - granted, probably a better defender than Rubio will be.
Parker - not a great defender. Rubio will likely be better.
Jason Williams - if any player disproved the thesis that your PG has to defend before you can win a title, it would be Mr. Chocolate, W.
Derek Fisher - solid, good at flopping. Rubio will be better (and has the flopping pedigree. Even his hair is floppy.)
Billups - see Rondo, although Billups has certainly lost a step on D these days.

So your thesis is 40% correct across a recent sample. And when we add Mo Williams to the list in a month or so, it will be 33% correct.

 

[RayDavies]

You mean, more athletic than Chris Paul and Kobe Bryant?
I guess you're assuming that all of the players in the ACB are slow and plodding. A lot of them are the American college players who weren't quite good enough for the NBA. In other words, better, faster, and stronger than the average player the NCAA players will have faced.

I am saying he looks solid against a lower level of talent. To be fair, I think Rondo performed similarly against a similar level of talent- NCAA talent. Paul was better. Anyway, I see nothing athletically astounding in any of those clips; certainly nothing I haven't seen many NBA players do (and some things riskier/sillier than any save a few would do).

Well, duh. So was Chris Paul. But of course Martell Webster was a sure thing!

Um, I didn't pick Marty. That was dumb.

Maybe you're looking at different trailers from the ones I'm looking at. Tell you what, find me a Steve Blake one that's more exciting. Or, to be more fair, an Andre Miller one. I try to get excited about the NCAA guards who we have more of a shot at, but every highlight video I watch of them is like a poor man's Bayless - all scoring, no playing D or passing. Rubio's, on the other hand, have scoring as an afterthought, actually being a PG (plus getting steals) as the main attraction.

Haha, 'Steve Blake' and 'exciting' don't belong in the same sentence. He is pretty reliable tho... I think I agree with most who want him as a backup going forward.

Andre Miller is solid as hell, one of my favorite NBA PGs. He's getting long in the tooth, but if you had said to me pick a 5 years ago Miller vs a now Rubio, I would have to think a bit about it. Now, I would rather have Rubio. I agree, there are no PGs coming out of college I am stoked about, but I think this team could use a more experienced 1.

It's not that I hate the thought of Rubio- he would be a very good addition to the Blazers, but we would have to give up a lot to get him and I am not sure if it would be worth it. We are already so young.

I can safely agree with here. But he might end up a better PG than either of them. And we don't know how could he can be eventually. Is he even 20 yet?

don't doubt he can be a very good PG, even an all star. CP3 is up there with the best PGs ever to play the game, and by the time his career is over, will probably have a claim to best. Who is better than him all time? Magic... Who else? The chances of Rubio being at that level are very very very very slim. He could be as good as Rondo, but Rajon is a genetic freak with a huge wingspan and hands, killer speed and strong instincts as well. I think Ricky being as good as Rondo is proving to be is a stretch, but certainly possible.

He's probably Kirk Hinrich-ish.

[/QUOTE]
Now THAT is the best comparison I have heard, based on his style of play and size. My guess is he ends up being KH-esque. Ok, now I think we should try and get him, LOL.

 

[hasoos]

Let's see: PGs on championship teams.
Rondo - granted, probably a better defender than Rubio will be.
Parker - not a great defender. Rubio will likely be better.
Jason Williams - if any player disproved the thesis that your PG has to defend before you can win a title, it would be Mr. Chocolate, W.
Derek Fisher - solid, good at flopping. Rubio will be better (and has the flopping pedigree. Even his hair is floppy.)
Billups - see Rondo, although Billups has certainly lost a step on D these days.

So your thesis is 40% correct across a recent sample. And when we add Mo Williams to the list in a month or so, it will be 33% correct.

Um no that would be 80% of them being very good defenders, if not great (Parker). Derek Fisher is a very solid defender. Rondo has become a very good defender. The only guys who isn't is Williams, and if you remember, that it was actually GP on the court a lot with Wade most of that series, and he is only one of the best PG defenders of all time. If anything, you are denying credit to most of those players where it is due. Even Jason Williams turned into a much better defender later in his career than he was at Sacremento.

 

[MAS RipCity]

I really don't want to sell the farm for an 18 year old. I thought we were passed this? Bayless is our project point and honest to God, like his game better than Rubio anyways. Roy and LMA are near their primes and its time to surround them with vets( via free agency), not 18 yr olds.

 

[anonymous gambler]

I would trade Aldridge for the rights to Rubio if I was certain that I could sign Boozer with the money we have under the cap. I would then trade for a veteran small forward and prepare to contend!

 

[MAS RipCity]

Boozer is a joke. There's a reason why Utah did much better without him and all their fans want him out!

 

[SpamKing99]

I'd damn sure give up Marti and J-Rex for Rubio... That way I wouldn't have to see the DWilliams or the CP3 that wasn't to be every time I saw that frickin' Marti, or the attempt to redress that error every time I saw J-Rex...

Of course I'd trade those two for GWallace as well, and even take back a crummy contract to make it happen...

 

[anonymous gambler]

Boozer is a joke. There's a reason why Utah did much better without him and all their fans want him out!

Hey, don't count out any man with Booze in his name! Seriously, though, they did better because his sub was better than him as is Aldridge- but Rubio plus Boozer is better than just Aldridge. Boozer is a good player, very talented offensively.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Worth bumping this, given the Chad Ford rumor that HCP posted.

 

[Mediocre Man]

I still say over rated.


I wouldn't give up anyone but equally over rated guys like Sergio,Travis, Martell and Frye