Who would you vote for if the election was today?

[AEM]

See also his article from 2005, commenting on a fascinating book by David Cook (not that one), titled <u>Understanding Jihad </u>http://www.danielpipes.org/article/2664

 

[Run BJM]

I am pretty ignorant of politics in general and have only a mild understanding of what these two candidates offer. I would say right now I'd go for Obama. I've always wondered why people are so obsessed with a presidential candidate's personality. I thought it was a pretty irrelevant thing to consider when voting for a presidential candidate. We're appointing him to get shit done and do a job, not to go hang out with every weekend. That being said, now that I can actually vote, I've been drawn to Obama because of his personality and public speaking abilities. Don't get me wrong, I also agree with most of his policices and ideas, his whole "change" schtick and everything, but a lot of the reason I like him is because of his personality. As much as I don't really want to factor it in I can't help but make it a big part of my decision. I, like many people I've talked to both young and old, am disgusted with politicians in general. Just the way they go about everything, the gang mentality of the parties and all the stupid bullshit that politicians do that really make you shake your head when you know they're running the country. Obama is coming at it completely differently, hes saying some things that aren't the same old response you hear from every politician, he wants to change the way things are done and percieved and I really buy into it. Again, I really am usually anti-trend (not that I'm some emo bitch lol but I generally go against anything thats popular among the American masses) but even I can't resist the charm and hopefulness that Obama instills when I hear him speak. I've heard people say hes the best speaker since Ronald Reagan, which may or may not be true, but I definitely understand that hes powerful with his words.

I am concerned that so many of his supporters are ignorant of politics (like myself), and a lot older people whose political opinions I respect are very skeptical of him. His message is great but is it realistic? I think thats where the inexperience thing comes in. Hes saying a lot of great stuff and I'm drinking the kool-aid but are his visions really going to come to fruition? Or is this just another case of old school political minds refusing to believe that someone can completely change the dynamics of politics? Its impossible form e to say because I admittedly don't know much about politics. I want to believe that Obama really can change the way we do things and make all of these changes but I just don't know for sure if its realistic. Ultimately, I'll probably vote for him because I figure the country is doing about as badly as it can as is and McCain isn't really giving me much hope to make things a lot better. Obama may or may not be able to back up the talk but can it be any worse than it is right now?

Also the economy is going to be a big part of how I vote for this. They say my generation is fucked as is because of all the shit we have to pay for but if either of these guys has a great economic plan then thats huge. It seems like they both really want to spend though which sucks ass but, agian, I'll have to educate myself sometime this summer when I'm feeling inspired.

 

[huevonkiller]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Run BJM @ Jun 9 2008, 12:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I am pretty ignorant of politics in general and have only a mild understanding of what these two candidates offer. I would say right now I'd go for Obama. I've always wondered why people are so obsessed with a presidential candidate's personality. I thought it was a pretty irrelevant thing to consider when voting for a presidential candidate. We're appointing him to get shit done and do a job, not to go hang out with every weekend. That being said, now that I can actually vote, I've been drawn to Obama because of his personality and public speaking abilities. Don't get me wrong, I also agree with most of his policices and ideas, his whole "change" schtick and everything, but a lot of the reason I like him is because of his personality. As much as I don't really want to factor it in I can't help but make it a big part of my decision. I, like many people I've talked to both young and old, am disgusted with politicians in general. Just the way they go about everything, the gang mentality of the parties and all the stupid bullshit that politicians do that really make you shake your head when you know they're running the country. Obama is coming at it completely differently, hes saying some things that aren't the same old response you hear from every politician, he wants to change the way things are done and percieved and I really buy into it. Again, I really am usually anti-trend (not that I'm some emo bitch lol but I generally go against anything thats popular among the American masses) but even I can't resist the charm and hopefulness that Obama instills when I hear him speak. I've heard people say hes the best speaker since Ronald Reagan, which may or may not be true, but I definitely understand that hes powerful with his words.</div>

I formed the most hilarious image when you said that.

 

[44Thrilla]

Either way I think Republicans lose because McCain is only a Republican by title. It's funny that all of his stances are changing now that he desperately needs Conservative support, and even the new stances he's taken seem to be the opposite of what he'd normally do. I think he's just trying to get registered Republicans to get him into office and then he'll go back to his usual self.

 

[Denny Crane]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thrilla @ Jun 9 2008, 02:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Either way I think Republicans lose because McCain is only a Republican by title. It's funny that all of his stances are changing now that he desperately needs Conservative support, and even the new stances he's taken seem to be the opposite of what he'd normally do. I think he's just trying to get registered Republicans to get him into office and then he'll go back to his usual self.</div>

In spite of all that, I think the argument for him is that he's better (to conservatives) than the alternative.

 

[44Thrilla]

^ Not exactly going to compel conservatives enough to get out to the polls in record numbers.

 

[TheBeef]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thrilla @ Jun 9 2008, 05:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>^ Not exactly going to compel conservatives enough to get out to the polls in record numbers.</div>

Completely true....stopping the radical racist might though....

 

[44Thrilla]

Well, I heard John McCain molests children, so I don't know...

 

[AEM]

I heard he needs stem cells to survive...

 

[Denny Crane]

I heard he's going to get half of Hilary's voters.

 

[Chutney]

I heard he was the Nazi from Raiders of the Lost Ark.

 

[AEM]

I heard he had a guest spot on Buffy the Vampire Slayer

 

[Денг Гордон]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Jun 9 2008, 09:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I heard he's going to get half of Hilary's voters.</div>

Chuck Todd said McCain would only be able to get 10% of Hillary supporters at most.

 

[Денг Гордон]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheBeef @ Jun 9 2008, 06:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thrilla @ Jun 9 2008, 05:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>^ Not exactly going to compel conservatives enough to get out to the polls in record numbers.</div>

Completely true....stopping the radical racist might though....
</div>

Mike Huckabee already dropped out of the race.

 

[Chutney]

I've heard he's powerful in the dark side of the force.

 

[Real]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BG7 Lavigne @ Jun 9 2008, 09:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Jun 9 2008, 09:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I heard he's going to get half of Hilary's voters.</div>

Chuck Todd said McCain would only be able to get 10% of Hillary supporters at most.
</div>

I think it's certainly possible he could get more than 180k no? There are a lot of Clinton supporters who are disgusted with Obama and the Un-democratic party.

 

[Денг Гордон]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Real @ Jun 9 2008, 10:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BG7 Lavigne @ Jun 9 2008, 09:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Jun 9 2008, 09:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I heard he's going to get half of Hilary's voters.</div>

Chuck Todd said McCain would only be able to get 10% of Hillary supporters at most.
</div>

I think it's certainly possible he could get more than 180k no? There are a lot of Clinton supporters who are disgusted with Obama and the Un-democratic party.
</div>

How is it undemocratic? Super delegates pushed Obama, but if you ignored superdelegates Obama still would have won. Michigan and Florida had the same penalties on the Democratic side as they did on the Republican side.

 

[huevonkiller]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chutney @ Jun 9 2008, 09:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I've heard he's powerful in the dark side of the force.

</div>

****ing LOL...

 

[Real]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BG7 Lavigne @ Jun 9 2008, 10:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Real @ Jun 9 2008, 10:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BG7 Lavigne @ Jun 9 2008, 09:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Jun 9 2008, 09:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I heard he's going to get half of Hilary's voters.</div>

Chuck Todd said McCain would only be able to get 10% of Hillary supporters at most.
</div>

I think it's certainly possible he could get more than 180k no? There are a lot of Clinton supporters who are disgusted with Obama and the Un-democratic party.
</div>

How is it undemocratic? Super delegates pushed Obama, but if you ignored superdelegates Obama still would have won. Michigan and Florida had the same penalties on the Democratic side as they did on the Republican side.
</div>

In a close race such as Hillary-Obama, to not fully count everyone's votes is simply pathetic. It's bureaucratic bullshit. This isn't some schoolboard election, we're electing a President for God's sake.

What a great idea pissing off the voters in Michigan and Florida, which just happen to be battleground states. I guess it's just a coincidence that McCain is up 3.0 points in Michigan and 8.3 in Florida right?

 

[huevonkiller]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Real @ Jun 9 2008, 10:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BG7 Lavigne @ Jun 9 2008, 10:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Real @ Jun 9 2008, 10:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BG7 Lavigne @ Jun 9 2008, 09:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Jun 9 2008, 09:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I heard he's going to get half of Hilary's voters.</div>

Chuck Todd said McCain would only be able to get 10% of Hillary supporters at most.
</div>

I think it's certainly possible he could get more than 180k no? There are a lot of Clinton supporters who are disgusted with Obama and the Un-democratic party.
</div>

How is it undemocratic? Super delegates pushed Obama, but if you ignored superdelegates Obama still would have won. Michigan and Florida had the same penalties on the Democratic side as they did on the Republican side.
</div>

In a close race such as Hillary-Obama, to not fully count everyone's votes is simply pathetic. It's bureaucratic bullshit. This isn't some schoolboard election, we're electing a President for God's sake.

What a great idea pissing off the voters in Michigan and Florida, which just happen to be battleground states. I guess it's just a coincidence that McCain is up 3.0 points in Michigan and 8.3 in Florida right?
</div>

It wasn't a primary, and the votes from the caucuses weren't counted. Obama would have an insurmountable popular vote lead had the caucuses been converted to primaries; Michigan or not. And Obama never campaigned there, so it was a name-brand contest.

 

[Real]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (huevonkiller @ Jun 9 2008, 10:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Real @ Jun 9 2008, 10:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BG7 Lavigne @ Jun 9 2008, 10:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Real @ Jun 9 2008, 10:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BG7 Lavigne @ Jun 9 2008, 09:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Jun 9 2008, 09:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I heard he's going to get half of Hilary's voters.</div>

Chuck Todd said McCain would only be able to get 10% of Hillary supporters at most.
</div>

I think it's certainly possible he could get more than 180k no? There are a lot of Clinton supporters who are disgusted with Obama and the Un-democratic party.
</div>

How is it undemocratic? Super delegates pushed Obama, but if you ignored superdelegates Obama still would have won. Michigan and Florida had the same penalties on the Democratic side as they did on the Republican side.
</div>

In a close race such as Hillary-Obama, to not fully count everyone's votes is simply pathetic. It's bureaucratic bullshit. This isn't some schoolboard election, we're electing a President for God's sake.

What a great idea pissing off the voters in Michigan and Florida, which just happen to be battleground states. I guess it's just a coincidence that McCain is up 3.0 points in Michigan and 8.3 in Florida right?
</div>

It wasn't a primary, and the votes from the caucuses weren't counted. Obama would have an insurmountable popular vote lead had the caucuses been converted to primaries; Michigan or not. And Obama never campaigned there, so it was a name-brand contest.
</div>

Obama took his name off the ballot because Michigan moved up their date. That's all well and good, I guess it shouldn't count because the rock star wasn't on the ballot right?

Popular Vote (w/MI)** 17,535,458 47.4% 17,822,145 48.1% Clinton +286,687 +0.8%

Estimate w/IA, NV, ME, WA* 17,869,542 47.4% 18,046,007 47.9% Clinton +176,465 +0.5%

Link

 

[huevonkiller]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Real @ Jun 9 2008, 10:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (huevonkiller @ Jun 9 2008, 10:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Real @ Jun 9 2008, 10:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BG7 Lavigne @ Jun 9 2008, 10:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Real @ Jun 9 2008, 10:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BG7 Lavigne @ Jun 9 2008, 09:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Jun 9 2008, 09:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I heard he's going to get half of Hilary's voters.</div>

Chuck Todd said McCain would only be able to get 10% of Hillary supporters at most.
</div>

I think it's certainly possible he could get more than 180k no? There are a lot of Clinton supporters who are disgusted with Obama and the Un-democratic party.
</div>

How is it undemocratic? Super delegates pushed Obama, but if you ignored superdelegates Obama still would have won. Michigan and Florida had the same penalties on the Democratic side as they did on the Republican side.
</div>

In a close race such as Hillary-Obama, to not fully count everyone's votes is simply pathetic. It's bureaucratic bullshit. This isn't some schoolboard election, we're electing a President for God's sake.


What a great idea pissing off the voters in Michigan and Florida, which just happen to be battleground states. I guess it's just a coincidence that McCain is up 3.0 points in Michigan and 8.3 in Florida right?
</div>

It wasn't a primary, and the votes from the caucuses weren't counted. Obama would have an insurmountable popular vote lead had the caucuses been converted to primaries; Michigan or not. And Obama never campaigned there, so it was a name-brand contest.
</div>

Obama took his name off the ballot because Michigan moved up their date. That's all well and good, I guess it shouldn't count because the rock star wasn't on the ballot right?

Popular Vote (w/MI)** 17,535,458 47.4% 17,822,145 48.1% Clinton +286,687 +0.8%

Estimate w/IA, NV, ME, WA* 17,869,542 47.4% 18,046,007 47.9% Clinton +176,465 +0.5%

Link
</div>

That's a pathetic post that ignores my previous point. I know quite well what the totals are, now educate yourself on the context. None of the Superdelegates gave a shit about this argument.

 

[Real]

I'm not trying to argue that Hillary should have won or anything. I think internal problems plagued her campaign. She really has nobody to blame but herself...and her husband of course.

I will argue however that superdelegates are a stupid idea, and the people should choose the candidate. I don't understand, in probably the most important election in decades, why the people can't choose their own candidate.

 

[#1_War_Poet_ForLife]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Real @ Jun 9 2008, 11:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I'm not trying to argue that Hillary should have won or anything. I think internal problems plagued her campaign. She really has nobody to blame but herself...and her husband of course.

I will argue however that superdelegates are a stupid idea, and the people should choose the candidate. I don't understand, in probably the most important election in decades, why the people can't choose their own candidate.</div>

And Monica Lewinski.

at Monica Lewinski.

 

[Denny Crane]

That the voters turned out for primaries was irrelevant in the end. Nobody won the required number of delegates.

Unelected superdelegates chose Obama, and often against the will of their voters. In Massachusetts, the voters "elected" Hillary, but the superdelegates from there chose Obama.

UN-Democratic.

 

[AEM]

Do as I say, not as I do, eh?

 

[Hunter]

I think its important to take the popular vote numbers and put them in perspective that it really is just a number because the electoral college decides the Presidency, not the number of Americans who will vote.

Ultimately, I think the Democrats royally messed themselves up in Florida/Michigan because those are two battleground states who could easily go McCain. I fully expect the Democratic party to seat all their delegates now the that primary election is over however you have to be thinking that the people of Florida will be upset that their vote will only count, when it doesn't really count.

That being said, I think this race is going to be a lot closer then most people think. I'm not the biggest McCain fan however I don't want to see universal health care. I have talked to enough friends in France, England and Canada who all think the idea of universal health care is horrible.

Too bad neither of the candidates are in favor of drilling in Alaska. The way gas prices are and the public focus on wanting prices to go down, I think a majority of Americans would vote on economic policy alone.

 

[Chutney]

I have a hard time believing someone in France would be in favour of scrapping their health care system.

 

[Run BJM]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Jun 10 2008, 12:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>That the voters turned out for primaries was irrelevant in the end. Nobody won the required number of delegates.

Unelected superdelegates chose Obama, and often against the will of their voters. In Massachusetts, the voters "elected" Hillary, but the superdelegates from there chose Obama.

UN-Democratic.</div>
We live under a republic government system though and I'd say thats a republic-an way to solve it. The people vote for representatives to make decisions. Thats ultimately what happened- well respected, designated leaders of the party made their decisions. Once the people elect someone the decision making is out of their hands.

 

[44Thrilla]

The idea/argument that half of Hillary's voters going to McCain is very premature. I'd think some of you guys knew better than to make statements like that in early June. The general election campaign has yet to even begin. The candidates don't even have VPs yet and they haven't even debated at all. A good majority of the US population hasn't even thought about paying attention yet.