Who's our fifth starter?

[Tince]

Ginobili was a top 3 in salaries in SA for three years between 2011 and 2013. He even had the highest salary in 2013. Started none of the 60 games he appeared in that year.

But besides the point, even if it sorta makes sense on paper, Ant is starting. He'll just also lead the second unit and be a token starter and full time finisher.

He would've been my guess, but I wasn't sure. So it's happened once in 10 years and it was with a guy who had been apart of a 10 year dynasty who was continuing his role, along side a top 10-15 players of all-time who was taking pay cuts.

Nothing like Ant's situation in Portland's situation.

 

[Natebishop3]

He would've been my guess, but I wasn't sure. So it's happened once in 10 years and it was with a guy who had been apart of a 10 year dynasty who was continuing his role, along side a top 10-15 players of all-time who was taking pay cuts.

Nothing like Ant's situation in Portland's situation.

If we win on Sunday we will officially be a dynasty. What then? Checkmate haters.

 

[BankTeller]

I’d be interested to see if Chauncey can develop Nas’ ability to make reads off pick and rolls with Nurk. Nas has to improve his shooting, but Nurk is really good at setting screens, he can have the choice of just bullying his guy to the cup or settle for a long 2.

The physical tools are there for Nas to be a prototypical Jaylen Brown kind of SF. With one year left on his deal, it just makes sense for us to start him and give him all the minutes he can handle so we can decide on his future. Is he our SF of the future? If he isn’t, we’ll be stuck waiting on Shaedon to grow into a full time contributor.

My guess is that if he stays healthy, he will show some consistency if we guarantee him the starting job. It’ll be his job to keep it, he’s been chasing a role his entire career thus far. He’s been through the Blazer organization three years running, one under Chauncey. This is his year to prove he’s a starter.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

It would be hard to justify trading him if he averages north of 20ppg on similar efficiency to last year, which is what I imagine him doing.

Really? I don't think he'll do as well playing next to Dame. He seems to play best when he's the primary ball-handler.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

I can't think of the last time a team signed a guy to be their 2nd highest paid player and had them come off the bench the entire season.

I don't know where Brogdon's salary ranks for Boston, but they've already said he's coming off the bench (behind the lesser-paid Marcus Smart).

 

[STOMP]

This team isn't a contender with Ant starting and they won't be a contender with Ant as the 6th man (without any other roster moves).

Agreed. Portland is not going to be a very good defensive club and what success they have will probably come in shootouts. Bringing AS off the bench would still have Dame and him matched together for stretches of the game, just not against the front line guys to start it. Staggering their PT would better allow Billups to always have one of them leading the offense. Again, even as the 6th man I expect to see Ant lead the team in minutes.

I can't think of the last time a team signed a guy to be their 2nd highest paid player and had them come off the bench the entire season.

Can you think of the last time a team's 2 highest paid players were both 6'2 190 lb PGs? I guess the CJ era Blazers were close to doing that but he's got an extra 10 lbs of ballast on Simons. Anyhoo it's... unconventional, but here we are.

STOMP

 

[Tince]

I don't know where Brogdon's salary ranks for Boston, but they've already said he's coming off the bench (behind the lesser-paid Marcus Smart).

Brogdon is the 4th highest paid player on Boston and Boston didn't sign him this summer either. Signing a player typically means the team paid them what they think the player is worth. Every once and a while there is is an example of a player who gets a big 1 year deal because a team is below the salary apron. You'll also find examples of players who are traded with super high salaries that don't start because the team was able to obtain them for significantly less talent as a reward for taking on a bloated contract.

None of these situation are close to Ants where Portland clearly thinks he's highly valuable and therefore the odds of him not starting seem to be near zero. And I'm not trying to crap on people who say Ant being the super 6th man might be the best lineup, because it could be. I'm saying I don't see any scenario where Portland/Billups doesn't start him.

 

[Tince]

Agreed. Portland is not going to be a very good defensive club and what success they have will probably come in shootouts. Bringing AS off the bench would still have Dame and him matched together for stretches of the game, just not against the front line guys to start it. Staggering their PT would better allow Billups to always have one of them leading the offense. Again, even as the 6th man I expect to see Ant lead the team in minutes.


Can you think of the last time a team's 2 highest paid players were both 6'2 190 lb PGs? I guess the CJ era Blazers were close to doing that but he's got an extra 10 lbs of ballast on Simons. Anyhoo it's... unconventional, but here we are.

STOMP

Agreed with the first part.

Second part: No, off the top of my head I can think of some starting PG duos but don't know their salaries.

We have agreed, and continue to agree that the majority of teams that win it all have a player who is an all-star that is of average NBA height or taller. The Blazers method to continually try to win with one all-star talent, who is short, and is a poor defender has been head scratching to me. They're trying to win in a way that no team has been succesful doing in decades.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Brogdon is the 4th highest paid player on Boston and Boston didn't sign him this summer either. Signing a player typically means the team paid them what they think the player is worth. Every once and a while there is is an example of a player who gets a big 1 year deal because a team is below the salary apron. You'll also find examples of players who are traded with super high salaries that don't start because the team was able to obtain them for significantly less talent as a reward for taking on a bloated contract.

None of these situation are close to Ants where Portland clearly thinks he's highly valuable and therefore the odds of him not starting seem to be near zero. And I'm not trying to crap on people who say Ant being the super 6th man might be the best lineup, because it could be. I'm saying I don't see any scenario where Portland/Billups doesn't start him.

I agree that he WILL start. But then we've got the same undersized backcourt issues that people bitched about for CJ's entire post-Wesley Trailblazer tenure, PLUS the glaringly obvious fact that Ant does better without Dame.

Of course, trading Dame (ideally for a sweet-shooting forward, or failing that a healthy Ben Simmons) solves these issues, but saying that gets you buried in shit, so I won't say it.

 

[Tince]

I agree that he WILL start. But then we've got the same undersized backcourt issues that people bitched about for CJ's entire post-Wesley Trailblazer tenure, PLUS the glaringly obvious fact that Ant does better without Dame.

Of course, trading Dame (ideally for a sweet-shooting forward, or failing that a healthy Ben Simmons) solves these issues, but saying that gets you buried in shit, so I won't say it.

Agreed the undersized thing doesn't work. I'd prefer to keep the HOF player over Ant myself, given that Ant is highly unlikely to come anywhere close to ever being as good as Dame.

 

[Wade Garrett]

That looks like a good summer league team to me.

Well you do have some of the worst takes on here, so, that doesn't surprise me.

 

[blazerfan11]

These are catch-and-shoot numbers for the regular season. Simons was #1 in the whole league in catch-and-shoot 3-point percentage.
I don't understand how some people say he can't be effective off the ball. Last season, he was deadly.

 

[Natebishop3]

These are catch-and-shoot numbers for the regular season. Simons was #1 in the whole league in catch-and-shoot 3-point percentage.
I don't understand how some people say he can't be effective off the ball. Last season, he was deadly.

View attachment 48765

For me it isn’t about whether he can be effective. I don’t think he will be the best version of himself if he’s not the primary ball handler. Kinda like CJ. I always thought that playing with Dame was holding him back. Was he still good? Absolutely, but I thought he could be better, and I feel the same way about Simons.

 

[Pinwheel1]

For me it isn’t about whether he can be effective. I don’t think he will be the best version of himself if he’s not the primary ball handler. Kinda like CJ. I always thought that playing with Dame was holding him back. Was he still good? Absolutely, but I thought he could be better, and I feel the same way about Simons.

No reason why half of his minutes can't be as the primary ball handler. At least the 15 minutes per game that Dame is resting

 

[andalusian]

For me it isn’t about whether he can be effective. I don’t think he will be the best version of himself if he’s not the primary ball handler. Kinda like CJ. I always thought that playing with Dame was holding him back. Was he still good? Absolutely, but I thought he could be better, and I feel the same way about Simons.

True, but unlike cj, ant is a short and long (post Dame prime) answer.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Agreed the undersized thing doesn't work. I'd prefer to keep the HOF player over Ant myself, given that Ant is highly unlikely to come anywhere close to ever being as good as Dame.

If Ant ever reaches Dame's peak it will be truly miraculous. However, Ant will likely pass Dame within three years as they're heading in opposite directions.

 

[Tince]

If Ant ever reaches Dame's peak it will be truly miraculous. However, Ant will likely pass Dame within three years as they're heading in opposite directions.

I'll bet Dame is still a better player come the 25-26 season.

Your logic could certainly be taken even further and say: Tari Eason will be better than Dame in 6 years. However, I don't think that's strong enough of a case that you should trade an All-NBA player for a #17 pick in this years draft.

 

[theprunetang]

I'll bet Dame is still a better player come the 25-26 season.

Your logic could certainly be taken even further and say: Tari Eason will be better than Dame in 6 years. However, I don't think that's strong enough of a case that you should trade an All-NBA player for a #17 pick in this years draft.

Brandon Williams will be better than Lebron James in 15 years, let's keep him. /s

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Your logic could certainly be taken even further and say: Tari Eason will be better than Dame in 6 years. However, I don't think that's strong enough of a case that you should trade an All-NBA player for a #17 pick in this years draft.

Buddy, that's not MY logic.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Brandon Williams will be better than Lebron James in 15 years, let's keep him. /s

Actually, I doubt that.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Isn't Dame our fifth starter since he drinks like a fish?

 

[blazerfan11]

If Ant ever reaches Dame's peak it will be truly miraculous. However, Ant will likely pass Dame within three years as they're heading in opposite directions.

Looking at true shooting percentage, Simons has already reached a level that Dame didn't reach until he was 26 years old in the 2016-17 season.

Not even counting the 2020-21 season, age-wise, Simons reached .580 true shooting percentage 4 seasons/years before Dame did.

But, looking at where Dame is now, at a very high 62% , who knows if Simons will pass Dame if Dame is healthy.

Simons:


Dame:

 

[MickZagger]

I played NBA2k last night with the Blazers and some dude was the Celtics. This team is rough. I can’t see how Jerami Grant and Payton are going to make that much of difference.

I had Simons at the 2 and he was matched up with Jaylen Brown. Yikes!

 

[MickZagger]

Isn't Dame our fifth starter since he drinks like a fish?

BGD insists that Lillard is an alcoholic. I’m skeptical.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

BGD insists that Lillard is an alcoholic. I’m skeptical.

I call BS on that.

 

[BankTeller]

Really? I don't think he'll do as well playing next to Dame. He seems to play best when he's the primary ball-handler.

Why do you think that? Ant has been a really good catch and shoot guy so far in his career, and Dame shouldn’t be playing more than 33-36mpg.

Keep in mind that CJ and Dame lasted as long as they did because they let each other get theirs whenever the other was hot. Dame is going to want to see Ant succeed. Ant is locked up for just as long as Dame is on the team, and Dame knows internal development is the only way for him to win a ring here.

I don’t ever see this becoming a Dame/LMA situation. The other thing is we as a city embrace Dame more than we ever did for LMA. He knows fully well that no matter how good Ant gets, Portland will always be his city as long as he’s here.

The only question that remains is can Chauncey turn him into a legit secondary playmaker on a contending team that is an adequate if not good defender. If he can do both, I don’t see a reason to trade him. But as far as scoring, if he continues to bulk up and attacks the paint more, I think it’s almost a guarantee he averages 20ppg this year.

I also said we should sign Ant for $14+4m/yr before last season started (when he would have been pretty much a lock to accept at that price imo) and a lot of people here thought I was crazy. So I might just be a bigger Ant optimist than most, but I’ve also been right so far on him.

 

[wizenheimer]

Ant's actual starting career is so abbreviated that I don't think any of us have a foundation for saying what situations are best for him. A small sample size of games that didn't matter is a poor gauge

it did look like Ant was on a roll when CJ came back and that his efficiency dropped after. I haven't bothered to find out if that's actually true...it just seemed that way to me, at the time. But Dame is not CJ; yeah they are both high usage but Dame has a track record of facillitating other players to get theirs....CJ not so much

I think there is enough unknown at this point combined with Ant having a different style than CJ there is at least reason for optimism that it will work better than Dame/CJ did

 

[riverman]

Ginobili was a top 3 in salaries in SA for three years between 2011 and 2013. He even had the highest salary in 2013. Started none of the 60 games he appeared in that year.

But besides the point, even if it sorta makes sense on paper, Ant is starting. He'll just also lead the second unit and be a token starter and full time finisher.

Kevin McHale was a career 6 man and the second highest paid player on the Celtics championship roster.

 

[Tince]

Kevin McHale was a career 6 man and the second highest player on the Celtics championship roster.

He did start 400 games. However, I think the point has been made now that we have like 2 examples of the second highest paid (signed) player coming off the bench in 30+ years. Both of which were vets who had established coming off the bench already. Doubt we'll find a 23 year old, who was the 2nd highest paid, who also came off the bench, on an average team.

Ant's going to start whether we like it or not. If come January he's healthy and not starting, that's going to be a really bad sign for us and that contract.

 

[blazerfan11]

This is the regular season playing time breakdown for the season the Blazers went to the Conference Finals. I don't have any comments. Just thought it might be good for comparison.