Why did Bayless slide so far in the draft?

[bigbailes]

I've read that he will be a top 5-10 PG next season and that he'd start for quite a few teams right now. Rice and Barrett sound like they are going to be having his children at any point now. And he seems like the man crush of most of the posters on here.

so why did he slide? i really hope he turns out to be as good as everyone thinks he is and can be.

 

[Natebishop3]

I've read that he will be a top 5-10 PG next season and that he'd start for quite a few teams right now. Rice and Barrett sound like they are going to be having his children at any point now. And he seems like the man crush of most of the posters on here.

so why did he slide? i really hope he turns out to be as good as everyone thinks he is and can be.

Just the way the cards fell. Chicago took Rose, OKC took Westbrook (which hasn't been a mistake at all), the Bobs took Augistin (which surprised a lot of people). I'm probably forgetting some point guards, but those were the big names. I think a lot of people were taken by surprise by his performance in the SL.

 

[hasoos]

I kind of read the Mikes as being torn on Bayless. For a long time, they were just putting on the knee pads and blowing Steve Blakes horn, until they realized the Blazers were winning without him. Then Mike Rice started to come around. At the end of the last game, if you listen to the conversation, it seemed like Mike B was still blowin Blakes horn, while Rice wasn't so sure it was so clear cut anymore.

 

[Tortimer]

I've read that he will be a top 5-10 PG next season and that he'd start for quite a few teams right now. Rice and Barrett sound like they are going to be having his children at any point now. And he seems like the man crush of most of the posters on here.

so why did he slide? i really hope he turns out to be as good as everyone thinks he is and can be.

I really think the Sonics/Thunder were going to take Bayless at #4 but changed their mind and took Westbrook because he was the hot pick an moving up. After that the only other team that needed Bayless that much was the Clippers and they liked both Bayless and E.Gorden and took Gorden. Every draft it seems someone slides and many times if you look the player sliding is as good or better then the players drafted ahead of him. Bayless should have been the 4th player taken in this draft and IMO will be at least the 4th best player out of this draft and probably higher in a couple years. The only player I like better then Bayless in this draft is Rose. I also think Mayo will have a lot of good stats even though I don't like his game and will be considered as good or better then Bayless.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Because Larry Brown wanted the player we really wanted, DJ Augustin. Who actually IS a point guard.

 

[Natebishop3]

I really think the Sonics/Thunder were going to take Bayless at #4 but changed their mind and took Westbrook because he was the hot pick an moving up. After that the only other team that needed Bayless that much was the Clippers and they liked both Bayless and E.Gorden and took Gorden. Every draft it seems someone slides and many times if you look the player sliding is as good or better then the players drafted ahead of him. Bayless should have been the 4th player taken in this draft and IMO will be at least the 4th best player out of this draft and probably higher in a couple years. The only player I like better then Bayless in this draft is Rose. I also think Mayo will have a lot of good stats even though I don't like his game and will be considered as good or better then Bayless.

The draft was just so guard heavy.

 

[Tortimer]

Because Larry Brown wanted the player we really wanted, DJ Augustin. Who actually IS a point guard.

We didn't want DJ IMO we wanted Bayless all the way unless we could have gotten Westbrook or Rose.

 

[Natebishop3]

We didn't want DJ IMO we wanted Bayless all the way unless we could have gotten Westbrook or Rose.

Westbrook would have been nice too. He has been solid this year.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Another reason, I think, was the general underperformance of a supposedly stacked Arizona team. Although, apparently, similar reasoning didn't scupper Eric Gordon's chances.

Perhaps he was just overrated by the various draftnicks. Perhaps he didn't "fall" at all.

 

[hasoos]

Another question is, did he even work out for any of those teams? I have a feeling it was a combination of:

1. Not working out for any of those teams.
2. Teams drafting on need.
3. After the initial slide, teams opting for players they had scouted and felt comfortable with.

 

[alex42083]

1. Chicago - Rose: No brainer
2. Miami - Beasley: No brainer
3. Minnesota (Memphis) - Mayo: No brainer
4. OKC - Westbrook: Stock rose a lot
5. Minnesota - Love: McHale loves him
6. New York - Gallinari: Could've been a good fit for Jerryd, but there's the D'Antoni connection
7. Clippers - Gordon: Jerryd could've gone here, but Gordon's about equal value and similar type players
8. Milwaukee - Alexander: Bucks have Ridnour/Redd/Sessions. Alexander's stock rose high before the draft as well.
9. Charlotte - Augustin: Another guy whose stock soared, and talks of the Blazers being highly interested in him were there too, and MJ bit. He's a good player though
10. New Jersey - Lopez: They have Harris, and needed a big.

11. Indiana (Portland) - Bayless

Or at least that's how I see it.

 

[andalusian]

Bayless slid because this was a guard heavy draft and people were concerned by his short-wingspan.

Rose, OJ, Westbrook, DJ, Gordon and him were also in the draft. In most drafts he would have gone higher - but it was just a guard heavy draft and there were some "no miss" bigs in the draft as well (Lopez, Beas and K-Love) - so overall - it made sense that some of them would slide.

The ones you have to wonder about - long term are Alexander and the NY-kid. These guys might have over-reached. Time will tell.

 

[number 10]

Because people got caught up in the fact that he might not be a "true point guard," whatever the fuck that even means. As a result, people called him a pure SG and so his poor wingspan and "only" being 6'3" would hurt him defensively.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

I really think the Sonics/Thunder were going to take Bayless at #4 but changed their mind and took Westbrook because he was the hot pick an moving up.

So you're saying that their actual decision procedure was not "we like Westbrook better because we think he's more of a point guard" but "all the COOL kids say THIS guy's great, so screw all our draft plans, he MUST be the one!"? Seriously?

And it turns out that all of those guards taken before Bayless (Mayo, Westbrook, Gordon, Augustin) actually do appear to be better players than him. Amazingly enough, it looks like the draft went right in this instance.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

9. Charlotte - Augustin: Another guy whose stock soared, and talks of the Blazers being highly interested in him were there too, and MJ bit. He's a good player though

My first thought at the time was that Jordan was taking him because Pritchard wanted him, and was planning to try to squeeze the Blazers for assets. But more and more it looks like Larry Brown nagged Jordan to take him because of the importance Brown places in cerebral true point guards. And, apart from injuries, you can't argue with his performance.

 

[number 10]

And man did Indiana have a crappy draft. Rush and Hibbert, both with serious experience in college, are barely contributing.

 

[Natebishop3]

So you're saying that their actual decision procedure was not "we like Westbrook better because we think he's more of a point guard" but "all the COOL kids say THIS guy's great, so screw all our draft plans, he MUST be the one!"? Seriously?

Cause that's NOT what happened with Joe Alexander and Milwaukee? Think the Bucks would re-do their draft if they had the chance? Hmmm?

 

[Natebishop3]

And man did Indiana have a crappy draft. Rush and Hibbert, both with serious experience in college, are barely contributing.

Rush looked good early in the season. I still think he'll turn out to be a solid player for them, but they have so many small forwards.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Because people got caught up in the fact that he might not be a "true point guard," whatever the fuck that even means.

Here's some help for you:
1. It doesn't just mean someone too short to play any other position.
2. Allen Iverson is not a true point guard. Nate Robinson is not a true point guard.
3. Players like playing with true point guards because they can actually deliver the ball to other players in scoring positions, and actually will do so.
3. Steve Nash is. Jason Kidd is. Chris Paul is (so you can score as well so long as you get the passing bit).

 

[Natebishop3]

Here's some help for you:
1. It doesn't just mean someone too short to play any other position.
2. Allen Iverson is not a true point guard. Nate Robinson is not a true point guard.
3. Players like playing with true point guards because they can actually deliver the ball to other players in scoring positions, and actually will do so.
3. Steve Nash is. Jason Kidd is. Chris Paul is (so you can score as well so long as you get the passing bit).

So by your rationale, there are like three or four "true point guards" in the league and the rest are all just shooting guards?

 

[Tortimer]

So you're saying that their actual decision procedure was not "we like Westbrook better because we think he's more of a point guard" but "all the COOL kids say THIS guy's great, so screw all our draft plans, he MUST be the one!"? Seriously?

And it turns out that all of those guards taken before Bayless (Mayo, Westbrook, Gordon, Augustin) actually do appear to be better players than him. Amazingly enough, it looks like the draft went right in this instance.

Again not true. I don't think Mayo, Westbrook, Gordon or Agustine are better then Bayless. They have been just given more PT and on worse teams that need their scoring.

I heard Bayless shot the lights out in the Seattle workout and they really wanted him. Westbrook came in and also had a great workout and they just thought longterm Westbrook might have better PG skills which isn't going to be the case. We will have to wait and see but don't giveup on Bayless and watch him develop into a starting PG on our championship team. He is going to get a star!

 

[crowTrobot]

it turns out that all of those guards taken before Bayless (Mayo, Westbrook, Gordon, Augustin) actually do appear to be better players than him.

it turns out all of those players are (or were before they got hurt) starting for bad teams and have played 4x the minutes bayless has so far. sample size too small. and other than westbrook none of them (including rose) have looked nearly as good on defense as bayless has in his short PT.

 

[Jayps15]

One of the reasons I recall reading about was that while guys like Westbrook, Gordon, Augustin were going around to basically ever team with a lottery pick and doing every workout they could schedule, Bayless and his agent took it pretty easy, only doing individual evaluations with a few select teams like the Sonics/TWolves/Grizz/Knicks. There was a rumor made about him sort of resting on his resume and not wanting to be 'shown up' in a group workout with a guy like Westbrook. So once those teams that had seen his individual workouts had made their selections, and not picked Jerryd, the teams immediately after just hadn't seen enough of him to pull the trigger on selecting a guy they hadn't worked out as opposed to some of the guys that came in and impressed during the workout phase (like a Joe Alexander).

I'm just glad KP got him, as soon as I saw him go at #11 to the Pacers, I just knew something was up and that somehow he was going to be in a Blazer uniform.

 

[Reep]

And it turns out that all of those guards taken before Bayless (Mayo, Westbrook, Gordon, Augustin) actually do appear to be better players than him. Amazingly enough, it looks like the draft went right in this instance.

Hmmm. How many of the guys you list who play "better" than Bayless play on competative teams? You are comparing guys who get massive minutes while playing for four of the bottom seven teams in the league, to a younger guard, who plays on a winning team. Seriously?

There is now way to know how Bayless would have done playing for OKC, but I'm sure he would have bigger numbers than he has had so far.

Time will tell where Bayless fits in this list (which is much tighter from top to bottom than you imply), and that time is not now.

Anyone who thinks Rose is a PG and Bayless is not should do the research and check out the statistics from their first five games last year in college. At that time, both Bayless and Rose were actual PGs on their respective teams. After that, Bayless was moved over to SG. When you do the research, let me know what you find. The answer may surprise you (I've already done the work).

 

[Natebishop3]

it turns out all of those players are (or were before they got hurt) starting for bad teams and have played 4x the minutes bayless has so far. sample size too small. and other than westbrook none of them (including rose) have looked nearly as good on defense as bayless has in his short PT.

Hmmm. How many of the guys you list who play "better" than Bayless play on competative teams? You are comparing guys who get massive minutes while playing for four of the bottom seven teams in the league, to a younger guard, who plays on a winning team. Seriously?

Again not true. I don't think Mayo, Westbrook, Gordon or Agustine are better then Bayless. They have been just given more PT and on worse teams that need their scoring.

^^ What they said

 

[number 10]

Here's some help for you:
1. It doesn't just mean someone too short to play any other position.
2. Allen Iverson is not a true point guard. Nate Robinson is not a true point guard.
3. Players like playing with true point guards because they can actually deliver the ball to other players in scoring positions, and actually will do so.
3. Steve Nash is. Jason Kidd is. Chris Paul is (so you can score as well so long as you get the passing bit).

2. I just don't buy that there's something inherent stopping these type of players from being an adequate "point guard." If they did everything the coaches wanted, they couldn't feed the ball into the post? Pass it to a shooter running off a screen? Drive and dish?

3. Players like winning. Period.

I guess my problem is with people who act like setting someone else up for an easy score is better than creating a good shot for yourself. There's different ways to score, and one isn't necessarily more efficient than another, it all depends on the player's skillset. Put out 5 players with meshing skillsets, regardless of "position" and you've got yourself a good team.

 

[andalusian]

Bayless strikes me as a stronger, slightly more athletic version of Devin Harris with a shorter wingspan - so I expect him to be about as good on offense and a little worse on defense when all is said and done - especially since it seems that he has the mentality to never back-down and will work like crazy to become as good as he can be (which is not always something you will get). Not a bad proposition at all.

The thing is - that Bayless seems like a perfect guy to play next to Roy on this team - he can play some PG, he can guard the opposing PG and he gets to the line at amazing rate - he gets about twice as many FTA per minute as Mayo and 60% more than Gordon (who is built like someone that should be going into the lane all the time). This is a great asset that is clearly missing from this team.

 

[hasoos]

What? Maris hasn't posted that he slid because Sergio is so great yet? WTF is wrong with this thread.

 

[Natebishop3]

What? Maris hasn't posted that he slid because Sergio is so great yet? WTF is wrong with this thread.

Who needs Maris when you have Rasta

 

[Nikolokolus]

I kind of read the Mikes as being torn on Bayless. For a long time, they were just putting on the knee pads and blowing Steve Blakes horn, until they realized the Blazers were winning without him. Then Mike Rice started to come around. At the end of the last game, if you listen to the conversation, it seemed like Mike B was still blowin Blakes horn, while Rice wasn't so sure it was so clear cut anymore.

Actually if you have listened to most of the courtside shows this season, I would say Rice has been way out in front of the Bayless "surge" he loves his hustle and passion and his A++ work ethic -- not surprising since the Wild One used to be a coach.

As for why his stock dropped, it was a very guard heavy lottery this year and there are/were legitimate concerns about his ability to be plugged in and run the point right away (if ever) it probably didn't help that he got saddled with being played at the two when he got moved there to fill in for their injured shooting guard his lone year at U of A, also with Lute out of the picture I wonder if his development didn't suffer because of it (getting bounced out of the tournament early probably didn't help much either).

I still think Jerryd has a lot of work to do before you can say that he is going to be comfortable running the point as a starter and I see many more bumps in the road, but there's no denying he has elite athleticism, oozes confidence and swagger, already has an elite ability to finish or draw a foul and probably has the self awareness to honestly critique his weaknesses and enough determination to make himself better.