OT Why does the IRS need $80 billion? Just look at its cafeteria.

[barfo]

Auditing more millionaires just because I want to audit more millionaires doesn't fix the problem.

There is almost zero reason to audit someone that is a millionaire that has one w-2 for 2 million dollars. And thats all their return is.

There are very, very few of those. Almost anyone with W-2 income that high has some other stuff goin' on as well.

barfo

 

[SlyPokerCat]

There are very, very few of those. Almost anyone with W-2 income that high has some other stuff goin' on as well.

barfo

Of course. But someone can claim as many false deductions as they want. If someone files a return with 5 million in gross receipts on a schedule c and claims 1 million in deductions that are on the up and up. Why the fuck would I audit them instead of the guy with 5 million in gross receipts and 4.9 million in expenses with many of them looking like bullshit.

Because we need to audit more millionaires!

 

[barfo]

Of course. But someone can claim as many false deductions as they want. If someone files a return with 5 million in gross receipts on a schedule c and claims 1 million in deductions that are on the up and up. Why the fuck would I audit them instead of the guy with 5 million in gross receipts and 4.9 million in expenses with many of them looking like bullshit.

Because we need to audit more millionaires!

Pretty sure everyone is in favor of auditing tax cheats, except of course for tax cheats. And I think the guy in your second scenario is currently much much more likely to be audited than the first guy, and I'd guess the IRS has no plans to change that.

barfo

 

[Phatguysrule]

Auditing more millionaires just because I want to audit more millionaires doesn't fix the problem.

There is almost zero reason to audit someone that is a millionaire that has one w-2 for 2 million dollars. And thats all their return is.

There are plenty of reasons to audit someone who had 200k in taxable income, but they claimed $5 million in expenses that look off.

Nobody claimed otherwise.

 

[SlyPokerCat]

Nobody claimed otherwise.

You literally said audits need to focus on millionaires.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

ALL CATS SHOULD BE AUDITED.

And then imprisoned.

 

[Phatguysrule]

You literally said audits need to focus on millionaires.

I said thats the fraud we should focus on preventing. Never once did I say we should audit anybody just because we want to.

 

[Hoopguru]

In the 60's most young people were anti establishment and federal overreach. Its totally flip flopped now.

 

[SlyPokerCat]

I said thats the fraud we should focus on preventing. Never once did I say we should audit anybody just because we want to.

We should focus on the audits that have the best possibility of bringing back return. They already have systems like that in place where they grade leads and adjust as needed.

Just auditing a millionaire to raise millionaire numbers even if it a bad lead is a waste of time. They have lead generation tools that give you an estimated adjustment but a human still needs to review them because technology is nowhere near close enough to interpret our tax laws.

Someone claiming millions of expenses that look off is a far better use of time even if their original return showed minimal income than focusing on high income returns just because we want to bring those numbers up.

 

[SlyPokerCat]

ALL CATS SHOULD BE AUDITED.

And then imprisoned.

They would find nothing on me. I got my receipts.

 

[Hoopguru]

Cats never have to worry about no body but themselves!

 

[SlyPokerCat]

You audit enough middle class people to put some fear into all the rest that they might get audited if they cheat. You don't audit middle-class people for the money, because on average, it probably costs more to do the audit than the amount of taxes recovered.

You audit rich people to get the money. And also to put the fear into the rest of the rich people.

barfo

This is true. You'd be surprised how many people continue their bad behavior, though.

 

[Phatguysrule]

We should focus on the audits that have the best possibility of bringing back return. They already have systems like that in place where they grade leads and adjust as needed.

Just auditing a millionaire to raise millionaire numbers even if it a bad lead is a waste of time. They have lead generation tools that give you an estimated adjustment but a human still needs to review them because technology is nowhere near close enough to interpret our tax laws.

Someone claiming millions of expenses that look off is a far better use of time even if their original return showed minimal income than focusing on high income returns just because we want to bring those numbers up.

Nobody suggested any bad leads.

You just said it. Technology can't interpret our tax laws. Rather than putting additional resources into auditing the poor and middle class I'd prefer making tax policies which make audits far less necessary. One of those would be sending out a tax statement in January and letting people sign off to approve it, or make modifications. Thereby eliminating the need for most to go to tax preparers, or to do the tax themselves. Simply sign that you accept it (or approve it on the webpage I discussed above).

The vast majority of poor and middle class people would not even need to be considered any further.

 

[SlyPokerCat]

Nobody suggested any bad leads.

You just said it. Technology can't interpret our tax laws. Rather than putting additional resources into auditing the poor and middle class I'd prefer making tax policies which make audits far less necessary. One of those would be sending out a tax statement in January and letting people sign off to approve it, or make modifications. Thereby eliminating the need for most to go to tax preparers, or to do the tax themselves. Simply sign that you accept it (or approve it on the webpage I discussed above).

The vast majority of poor and middle class people would not even need to be considered any further.

You did being so concerned with millionaire audit numbers instead of just focusing on good leads.

Anyone that has a business should not be included in you poor or middle class idea.

If someone only has a w-2, the IRS always has ways people can file for free. Or they use turbotax which is safe as someone solely including their w-2 income.

The only way someone like that would have their return adjusted us if the IRS was notified of other income they received through a 1099 or additional w-2, or if they put in their numbers incorrectly. That's not the same as an audit.

 

[Phatguysrule]

This is true. You'd be surprised how many people continue their bad behavior, though.

Which is why you make it far easier to be honest than cheat. Far fewer will continue the bad behavior.

The current system encourages waste. We need to do better. Other countries do far better. This is just another wasteful middle man tactic like healthcare.

 

[Phatguysrule]

You did being so concerned with millionaire audit numbers instead of just focusing on good leads.

Anyone that has a business should not be included in you poor or middle class idea.

If someone only has a w-2, the IRS always has ways people can file for free. Or they use turbotax which is safe as someone solely including their w-2 income.

The only way someone like that would have their return adjusted us if the IRS was notified of other income they received through a 1099 or additional w-2, or if they put in their numbers incorrectly. That's not the same as an audit.

No, I'd didn't. That was your misinterpretation.

None of those options are as simple or straightforward as what I'm suggesting. In reality, they are scams to trick the poor into spending money they don't need to.

 

[SlyPokerCat]

Which is why you make it far easier to be honest than cheat. Far fewer will continue the bad behavior.

Hahahahahahahahahahaha

People will never stop being low lifes.

I've never cheated on my taxes. Pretty easy to do.

 

[SlyPokerCat]

No, I'd didn't. That was your misinterpretation.

None of those options are as simple or straightforward as what I'm suggesting. In reality, they are scams to trick the poor into spending money they don't need to.

Lol. You literally posted how concerned you were with millionaire audit numbers and said thats where the focus needed to be.

Scams. You're hilarious.

 

[Phatguysrule]

Hahahahahahahahahahaha

People will never stop being low lifes.

I've never cheated on my taxes. Pretty easy to do.

I see this is very personal for you.

You must make a living in this industry that audits poor people at 5x the rate of middle class and 10x the wealthy. Apparently because poor people are "low lifes".

You support harrasing poor people (or "low lifes" as you call them) as a way for corporations and the government to make money.

I simply don't. I prefer efficient systems that discourage bad behavior from ever happening as opposed to tricking poor people into paying for mistakes that we can then punish them for.

So we're at an impasse.

 

[Hoopguru]

These new auditors will have bogies to meet and they will go for the low hanging fruit low/middle income/minorities.

 

[SlyPokerCat]

I see this is very personal for you.

You must make a living in this industry that audits poor people at 5x the rate of middle class and 10x the wealthy. Apparently because poor people are "low lifes".

You support harrasing poor people (or "low lifes" as you call them) as a way for corporations and the government to make money.

I simply don't. I prefer efficient systems that discourage bad behavior.

So we're at an impasse.

Personal for what? You argue things then try to act like you didn't mean exactly what you said.

Not all poor people are low lifes. Neither are middle class or rich. But there are many that are and will claim bad things in order to get more money back knowing full well what they are doing. There are also people claiming things incorrectly or relying on bad preparer advice.

Just like there are people that kill people. And people that steal things. People that are dishonest. People that take advantage of others. Lots of reasons someone could be considered not a great person.

Bottom line. Audits need to be done where the biggest potential of recovery in an efficient amount of time is. All groups of people should be audited. Not to increase the number of audits done on millionaires just because.

Nowhere did I say poor people are low lifes. I said people will never stop being low lifes.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Some cats have nine low lifes.

 

[SlyPokerCat]

Some cats have nine low lifes.

I have almost died a few times. Those were low points in my life.

 

[Phatguysrule]

Personal for what? You argue things then try to act like you didn't mean exactly what you said.

Not all poor people are low lifes. Neither are middle class or rich. But there are many that are and will claim bad things in order to get more money back knowing full well what they are doing. There are also people claiming things incorrectly or relying on bad preparer advice.

Just like there are people that kill people. And people that steal things. People that are dishonest. People that take advantage of others. Lots of reasons someone could be considered not a great person.

Bottom line. Audits need to be done where the biggest potential of recovery in an efficient amount of time is. All groups of people should be audited. Not to increase the number of audits done on millionaires just because.

Nowhere did I say poor people are low lifes. I said people will never stop being low lifes.

You are claiming I said things that I didn't say. You are inferring intentions on things I didn't say.

Stop trying to argue with me about what you think I mean, and just focus on what I actually say.

We're at an impasse because I prefer to change the system to encourage more efficient use of IRS assets and I don't think poor people are 10x more likely to be low life tax cheats. And you apparently disagree.

I don't really care why, because you aren't interested in discussing what I'm saying, instead you're trying to infer some other meaning to it.

I can only presume it's personal. And that's fine with me.

 

[Phatguysrule]

Pot meet kettle. You are inferring i said low lifes are poor people. Show me where that was said.


Was this not you?

What you fail to realize is if someone files a return and has 2 million in income but 1.99 million in expenses claimed, they would be considered poor based on your standards since their taxable income was so low.

Increasing the audits on millionaires is stupid if there is nothing that is gonna be there. That is just forcing the issue and wasting resources.

Wealthy Americans hide 20% of their holdings from the IRS.

That is more than we could ever get from the poor.

Obviously we should be focusing more on millionaires than the poor. That would require more audits on millionaires. Yes.

I am not advocating for auditing people who don't need audited, as you have inferred.

We know there is more fraud (higher dollars) with millionaires than with the poor. You implying that there is nothing to get from millionaires is dishonest at the very least, and prevents this conversation from being productive.

 

[SlyPokerCat]

Wealthy Americans hide 20% of their holdings from the IRS.

That is more than we could ever get from the poor.

Obviously we should be focusing more on millionaires than the poor. That would require more audits on millionaires. Yes.

I am not advocating for auditing people who don't need audited, as you have inferred.

We know there is more fraud (higher dollars) with millionaires than with the poor. You implying that there is nothing to get from millionaires is dishonest at the very least, and prevents this conversation from being productive.

I'm not saying that millionaires have nothing. I'm stating the best leads should be done. They don't just grab a millionaire return off the shelf and dive into it just because they are a millionaire. Do you not think millionaires have businesses or things on their taxes that bring them down to showing little income? Do you not think they have things like net operating losses that bring down their income so they report little income?

To you, that's a poor person that shouldn't be audited because they didn't report a high taxable income number.

If you can't understand that, i don't know what to tell you.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

 

[Phatguysrule]

I'm not saying that millionaires have nothing. I'm stating the best leads should be done.

They are currently not, and I explained how I would address it more efficiently.

They don't just grab a millionaire return off the shelf and dive into it just because they are a millionaire.

I didn't say or suggest they did, or that they should.

Do you not think millionaires have businesses or things on their taxes that bring them down to showing little income? Do you not think they have things like net operating losses that bring down their income so they report little income?
To you, that's a poor person that shouldn't be audited because they didn't report a high taxable income number.

I didn't address this. I'm not sure why you're telling me my stance on something I didn't address.

If you can't understand that, i don't know what to tell you.

Again, you're trying to change the discussion to something else, and I'm not interested in playing that game with you.

 

[SlyPokerCat]

They are currently not, and I explained how I would address it more efficiently.

I didn't say or suggest they did, or that they should.

I didn't address this. I'm not sure why you're telling me my stance on something I didn't address.

Again, you're trying to change the discussion to something else, and I'm not interested in playing that game with you.

I don't even know how to respond to this.

I quoted you talking about focusing of millionaires for audits. You provided a graph showing how people reporting over a million in taxable income were not being audited as much.

I explained to you that millionaires can have returns that show no income which would make them a waste of time to you since they are poor based on their filing that year with the IRS. I stated that the IRS should focus on the best leads they get, not just pick millionaire returns, for the best return on their time.

That's not twisting your words. That's addressing what you shared and pointed to as proof millionaires aren't the focus.

 

[Phatguysrule]

I don't even know how to respond to this.

I quoted you talking about focusing of millionaires for audits. You provided a graph showing how people reporting over a million in taxable income were not being audited as much.

I explained to you that millionaires can have returns that show no income which would make them a waste of time to you since they are poor based on their filing that year with the IRS. I stated that the IRS should focus on the best leads they get, not just pick millionaire returns, for the best return on their time.

That's not twisting your words. That's addressing what you shared and pointed to as proof millionaires aren't the focus.

If you don't know how to respond then stop responding, lol.

Again, we're at an impasse. You don't want to understand what my point was, even though it was very clear.

Never at any point did I say people should be audited for no reason. In fact, I said the opposite.