Why don't I fear San Antonio?

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Buffalo Blazer said:
You forgot about Tiago "Elite" Splitter. Haven't you heard he's quicker and a better defender than Dwight Howard? Surely, you've heard that his pick and roll offense is elite?
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OK. Now I really am afeared.
 
dviss1 said:
The most notorious flopper is Lebron. Then Paul. Then Harden. Even Ginger Black Blake is a goddamn flopper. Manu is from ARGENTINA.... Jesus man WTF are you talking about?
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I know exactly where those players are from. However, flopping was imported into the NBA from Euroleague players. See: Divac, Vlade. That's what I'm talking about.
 
maxiep said:
What I would have loved to see the refs call is a double technical. Fucking euro-flopping is killing this league.
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Ha, ha. Joey loves the limelight so much, that would have been perfect. He's just not smart enough to think of it. Double technical and jump ball at mid court.
 
dviss1 said:
The most notorious flopper is Lebron. Then Paul. Then Harden. Even Ginger Black Blake is a goddamn flopper. Manu is from ARGENTINA.... Jesus man WTF are you talking about?
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Luis Scola, another Argentinian, doesn't really play enough anymore to be relevant, but I think he deserves some sort of flopper lifetime achievement "award".

BNM
 
Boob-No-More said:
Luis Scola, another Argentinian, doesn't really play enough anymore to be relevant, but I think he deserves some sort of flopper lifetime achievement "award".

BNM
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Bro, I am anxiously waiting for you to have you "in-depth" response to this! The response on why we don't have to fear the Spurs.
 
maxiep said:
I know exactly where those players are from. However, flopping was imported into the NBA from Euroleague players. See: Divac, Vlade. That's what I'm talking about.
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I've been participating in this sport since I was 7. So I'm 30 years in. Bringing up Vlade means absolutely nothing because even though he may have been one of the notorious floppers, he certainly didn't invent it. Here's another newsflash for you:

Serbia isn't in Europe!!
 
BBert said:
Ha, ha. Joey loves the limelight so much, that would have been perfect. He's just not smart enough to think of it. Double technical and jump ball at mid court.
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My problem with not calling a tech is that it IS a technical foul. Faking being fouled is an unsporting act and SHOULD be called as a technical foul. NFHS (high school rules) 10.6.f specifically defines "faking being fouled," in the judgment of an official, as unsportsmanlike conduct that is subject to penalty of a technical. W\hile it is rarely called, I would have NO problem making this call.

I could have called a tech when I was refereeing a Lincoln HS/Forest Grove HS Varsity boys game. After the captain's meeting the PG said to me (politicking for a call) "we take a lot of charges". I tell him, "take the hit and you'll get the call". His 1st 3 "charges" he took were flops and the 3rd one I called a blocking foul. The coach says to me "We took 65 charges last year". I told him "coach, you'll get every one that you earn tonight. Now tell your players to stop flopping".
 
dviss1 said:
I've been participating in this sport since I was 7. So I'm 30 years in. Bringing up Vlade means absolutely nothing because even though he may have been one of the notorious floppers, he certainly didn't invent it. Here's another newsflash for you:

Serbia isn't in Europe!!
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My point stands. The influx of Euro players who learned to flop to draw fouls was adoped by the entire league.

And, I don't wish to embarrass you, but Serbia is most certainly in Europe. The eastern border of Europe stretch from the Urals south to the Dardanelles.
 
If a Tech was given for flopping there would be no need for fines, or suspensions or anything. Calling a Tech would eliminate it from the sport entirely.
 
dviss1 said:
If a Tech was given for flopping there would be no need for fines, or suspensions or anything. Calling a Tech would eliminate it from the sport entirely.
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I couldn't agree more. It started as a clever strategy, now in my opinion, it's the bane of the league. You have entire plays that are drawn up just to draw a foul. Lawyer ball is shameful. However, it's proven to be a winning tactic.
 
maxiep said:
My point stands. The influx of Euro players who learned to flop to draw fouls was adoped by the entire league.

And, I don't wish to embarrass you, but Serbia is most certainly in Europe. The eastern border of Europe stretch from the Urals south to the Dardanelles.
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OK you're right about the Eroupe thing. I'll take that point but your "point" about flopping doesn't stand simply because you say it does. The most notorious flopper in the league is a rather large Black man. [video=youtube;nwyE-SJTqOw]
 
dviss1 said:
OK you're right about the Eroupe thing. I'll take that point but your "point" about flopping doesn't stand simply because you say it does. The most notorious flopper in the league is a rather large Black man. [video=youtube;nwyE-SJTqOw]
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Was I talking about today? IMO, the best flopper ever was Shane Battier, who last I checked was not a Euro, but it doesn't change my point.

Flopping wasn't part of this game until the Euros started coming. Do you think kids practiced flopping at Rucker Park or in Oakland AAU ball? Hell no. You'd get your ass beat down if you tried that.
 
maxiep said:
Was I talking about today? IMO, the best flopper ever was Shane Battier, who last I checked was not a Euro, but it doesn't change my point.

Flopping wasn't part of this game until the Euros started coming. Do you think kids practiced flopping at Rucker Park or in Oakland AAU ball? Hell no. You'd get your ass beat down if you tried that.
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Nice strawman. You don't fake being fouled in ANY city on a pickup court. Let alone Rucker. You can only do that if you have a ref...

Bottom line is that you really don't know what you're talking about. Flopping was invented by a WHITE MAN named Frank Ramsey... Flopping started in the 60's... Read up on "The Fllimflammer"

http://www.cnnsi.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1021833/index.htm
 
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I don't think the Blazers fear the Spurs at all; they've matched up very well with them the last few seasons. On the other hand the Blazers have never gotten a dose of "Playoff Spurs" either.

These are the keys to series in my mind (assuming LaMarcus is his usual dominant self and Wes, Nic and Rolo all play well):
1. Can Lillard hang with Parker on the defensive end? He doesn't have to shut him down, but if they are constantly switching him off onto Leonard or somebody else to "hide" him, the Spurs will be like a boxer continually jabbing at a cut on his opponent.

2. Can the bench produce at least 20 points per game and play somewhat passable defense? The Blazers' X-factor is Thomas Robinson; they really need him to be able to contribute 15-20 good minutes per game, and we desperately need "good" Mo to show up

3. Pop is the best coach in the game. Can Stotts at least play to a draw on his adjustments, moves and counters during the series? If yes, then the Blazers might steal a game or two in San Antonio.

All in all, I think the Blazers match up pretty well, but just don't have the roster depth and playoff experience to be anything other than an underdog, especially without home-court, but if they get a few breaks and some guys play way over their norm (Lillard on defense, Robinson being reliable for more than 5 minute stretches, and Mo playing within himself) they've got a puncher's chance of stealing the series.
 
Nikolokolus said:
I don't think the Blazers fear the Spurs at all; they've matched up very well with them the last few seasons. On the other hand the Blazers have never gotten a dose of "Playoff Spurs" either.

These are the keys to series in my mind (assuming LaMarcus is his usual dominant self and Wes, Nic and Rolo all play well):
1. Can Lillard hang with Parker on the defensive end? He doesn't have to shut him down, but if they are constantly switching him off onto Leonard or somebody else to "hide" him, the Spurs will be like a boxer continually jabbing at a cut on his opponent.

2. Can the bench produce at least 20 points per game and play somewhat passable defense? The Blazers' X-factor is Thomas Robinson; they really need him to be able to contribute 15-20 good minutes per game, and we desperately need "good" Mo to show up

3. Pop is the best coach in the game. Can Stotts at least play to a draw on his adjustments, moves and counters during the series? If yes, then the Blazers might steal a game or two in San Antonio.

All in all, I think the Blazers match up pretty well, but just don't have the roster depth and playoff experience to be anything other than an underdog, especially without home-court, but if they get a few breaks and some guys play way over their norm (Lillard on defense, Robinson being reliable for more than 5 minute stretches, and Mo playing within himself) they've got a puncher's chance of stealing the series.
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Great posts... Repped.
 
Unlike Harden Manu doesn't live at the FT line, and its the biggest difference in their games. Harden will never be anything more than a playoff choker until his game revolves around scoring rather than getting to the line.

Not even going to deny Manu flops, and I hope he takes advantage of any opportunities he can.
 
dviss1 said:
Nice strawman. You don't fake being fouled in ANY city on a pickup court. Let alone Rucker. You can only do that if you have a ref...

Bottom line is that you really don't know what you're talking about. Flopping was invented by a WHITE MAN named Frank Ramsey... Flopping started in the 60's... Read up on "The Fllimflammer"

http://www.cnnsi.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1021833/index.htm
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Thanks for telling me what would happen on any pickup court. Of course, you live in hardcore Portland, while I've only played pickup hoops in more genteel places like Chicago, DC and New York. Yet, you play hoops in Spain, and flopping is part of playground hoops.

I'm wondering when LeBron started flopping? Was it when he played for the Irish in HS? Hell no. He didn't develop his flop until he was well into the NBA.

And how long have you watched Euroleague contests? I lived in Spain in the 80s and that brand of basketball was a floporama. Was there a lot of flopping in the NBA at that time?

My point was--and remains--that flopping as a tactic was brought into large scale use by the influx of European players in the 90s. Its success came from the more physical nature of defensive basketball during that time (first executed by Daly's Pistons, then widened by Riley and Van Gundy). If someone is going to foul you, you needed to sell it. Even in the absence of a foul, if you sold it, you would get the call.

We can agree to disagree, but you only diminish what should be a respectable discussion by telling me I don't know what I'm talking about.
 
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maxiep said:
Thanks for telling me what would happen on any pickup court. Of course, you live in hardcore Portland, while I've only played pickup hoops in more genteel places like Chicago, DC and New York. Yet, you play hoops in Spain, and flopping is part of playground hoops.

I'm wondering when LeBron started flopping? Was it when he played for the Irish in HS? Hell no. He didn't develop his flop until he was well into the NBA.

And how long have you watched Euroleague contests? I lived in Spain in the 80s and that brand of basketball was a floporama. Was there a lot of flopping in the NBA at that time?

My point was--and remains--that flopping as a tactic was brought into large scale use by the influx of European players in the 90s. Its success came from the more physical nature of defensive basketball during that time (first executed by Daly's Pistons, then widened by Riley and Van Gundy). If someone is going to foul you, you needed to sell it. Even in the absence of a foul, if you sold it, you would get the call.

We can agree to disagree, but you only diminish what should be a respectable discussion by telling me I don't know what I'm talking about.
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I know what you point is. You've said it over and over. But the fact remains that an SI story was written about it 63. It's been happening as long as we've been watching basketball. Simply generalizing euros is just perpetuating an imaginary stereotype.
 
I think the Spurs have the largest collection of underrated players in the league. That alone makes them dangerous.
 
maxiep said:
That's not necessary. Dviss is a quality poster.
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Thanks guys. Rep going all the way around!

Edit: You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to maxiep again.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to magnifier661 again.

Haha! somebody rep these guys for me!
 
dviss1 said:
I know what you point is. You've said it over and over. But the fact remains that an SI story was written about it 63. It's been happening as long as we've been watching basketball. Simply generalizing euros is just perpetuating an imaginary stereotype.
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And a Soviet scientist invented stealth technology. Yet who harnessed it? We did.

It's not about who invented it (Bill Laimbeer was flopping before the Euro invasion), but it was the Euros who brought it mainstream.

And the reason that I'm generalizing, is because flopping is part of the way they play. Just like flopping is part of the way the Rockets play. It's a key part of their basketball strategy; it's not just something to do when you can. And that use of flopping has now been integrated into the NBA game.
 
I still think we are gonna win in 6. The power of positivity is a MF!
 
LuckyShot said:
I think the Spurs have the largest collection of underrated players in the league. That alone makes them dangerous.
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Individually, they're nothing to fear. Collectively, they play like five digits forming into a fist.

It's a system team rather than a talent one. Popovich coaches like the NFL. You create a system and then find pieces to fit into it. Sloan did the same thing. So impressive.
 
maxiep said:
And a Soviet scientist invented stealth technology. Yet who harnessed it? We did.

It's not about who invented it (Bill Laimbeer was flopping before the Euro invasion), but it was the Euros who brought it mainstream.

And the reason that I'm generalizing, is because flopping is part of the way they play. Just like flopping is part of the way the Rockets play. It's a key part of their basketball strategy; it's not just something to do when you can. And that use of flopping has now been integrated into the NBA game.
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TBH I just didn't really like the way you classified it as "Euro-Flopping". All Euros don't flop. Parker doesn't flop. Nico (while shying away from contact A LOT) doesn't flop. Claver? Rudy sorta flopped but he shied away from contact just like Nic does. All Euros don't flop so to call it euro flopping is again IMO perpetuating an imaginary stereotype.

We know all black people like chicken. Just like all white people do. Unless you're vegetarian. ;)
 
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