Why draft picks will always have value (2 Viewers)

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Natebishop3 said:
Really the point of the thread is to point out that Mason Plumlee has been a big positive in the playoffs, and he was acquired with a pick. Not so much to harp specifically on the argument over whether playoffs or pick are better. I just saw people arguing about how much a rookie would help us right now, and I just thought it was funny because last year's pick is helping us quite a bit right now.
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Its been my observation that most forum members think Plumlee needs to go to the bench and we need a better big, and i might be in that category now. So great. another bench role player on a team full of them. The pick helped wonders. ;) It was a game changer just like this years would have been.


Kinda laughable considering the criticism of our bigs currently...
 
Natebishop3 said:
Sure, I can see your argument, but Dame isn't trusting his teammates. He's forcing things. He's playing exactly like a guy who is experiencing his first playoff series. I love the guy, but he's trying to do too much.
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The dude is getting double teamed left and right, and he only has two options, pass out, or try to take it to the hole.

He has done both.

What the hell else is he going to do?

There's only so many options he can do. What else can he do? The team needs to set better screens, maybe?

Perhaps, just maybe, it has more to do than Dame. It's crazy that your scapegoat may not be the sole reason. It just ruins everything!
 
Making the playoffs is a valuable tool for evaluating the team. Before the playoffs and now, your views on who is vital for the team's future is different.

Before we were like: Have to keep Gerald, have to keep Harkless, have to keep Crabbe, CJ and Dame work well, etc. Now? Those views are different when it actually counts. It makes Neil's job a little easier to see who to deal and who to keep. A lot of the guys on the team, in my opinion, lots TONS of value in these first two games as far as being absolutely necessary on this squad. Its easy to see we absolutely need low post scoring and that needs to be addressed this off-season. Things like that.

Playoff experience is vital. I always say the first time you make the playoffs is popping your cherry. Then after that you need to and are expected to win. We are popping our cherry with this squad now, better now than later.
 
Orion Bailey said:
And you had this given to you form NO as gospel? Come on. Stop with the absolutes, unless its an absolute. Your post is pure hypothesis. Lets discuss in actuality please?
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Actuality: we are headed into a free agent market where there is more money available than talent. It is safe to predict that it will be worse than last summer - and look at the contracts Wes and Rolo got then!

I agree with Olshey's decision to let those guys walk rather than over-pay them. It is hardly unreasonable to assume he will make the same decision with Meyers/Hendo/Harkless/Crabbe etc. That may not be half the team...but all 4 of those guys were part of the rotation at some point.

Sometimes, people exaggerate to make a point.

And BTW - LMA was a "go to" scorer, just not a very good one! :smiley-beljise_har:
 
Natebishop3 said:

Really the point of the thread is to point out that Mason Plumlee has been a big positive in the playoffs,
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I can agree with you there. Plums look horrible in game 1. But that experience helped him in game two. He was all over the place....rebounding (10) , passing ( 7 assists) 2 steals, 1 block, 5-7 from the field and 7-9 from the line..........The guy filled the stats sheet.
 
Orion Bailey said:
Its been my observation that most forum members think Plumlee needs to go to the bench and we need a better big, and i might be in that category now. So great. another bench role player on a team full of them. The pick helped wonders. ;) It was a game changer just like this years would have been.


Kinda laughable considering the criticism of our bigs currently...
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Touche. Rather funny though, as you seem to have faith in everybody *but* Plums - and he is the only one I have any hope for at all!
 
EL PRESIDENTE said:
Making the playoffs is a valuable tool for evaluating the team. Before the playoffs and now, your views on who is vital for the team's future is different.

Before we were like: Have to keep Gerald, have to keep Harkless, have to keep Crabbe, CJ and Dame work well, etc. Now? Those views are different when it actually counts. It makes Neil's job a little easier to see who to deal and who to keep. A lot of the guys on the team, in my opinion, lots TONS of value in these first two games as far as being absolutely necessary on this squad. Its easy to see we absolutely need low post scoring and that needs to be addressed this off-season. Things like that.

Playoff experience is vital. I always say the first time you make the playoffs is popping your cherry. Then after that you need to and are expected to win. We are popping our cherry with this squad now, better now than later.
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Really well said. I mean, the popping the cherry thing, meh... but otherwise, it's really well said. Best evaluator of talent ever is playing the games, is it not?
 
oldmangrouch said:
Touche. Rather funny though, as you seem to have faith in everybody *but* Plums - and he is the only one I have any hope for at all!
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Not sure where you got that?

MY views have changed about almost the whole roster, but I have yet to voice it, so not sure where that came from? :)
I have no more faith in Crabbe, Harkless, AMinu, Vonleh and Hendo than I do Plums at this point. They all seem to be decent role players, but currently, thats about it. Im not sure if any of them can become that third go to guy, and if not, then we need to figure out who WILL work best with he team and whoever we get, and who wont, so the ones that wont are the ones to go.
 
Strenuus said:
The dude is getting double teamed left and right, and he only has two options, pass out, or try to take it to the hole.

He has done both.

What the hell else is he going to do?

There's only so many options he can do. What else can he do? The team needs to set better screens, maybe?

Perhaps, just maybe, it has more to do than Dame. It's crazy that your scapegoat may not be the sole reason. It just ruins everything!
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Scapegoat? I have been defending Dame all series, but when we're talking about how valuable it is to gain experience of being in the playoffs, and Dame has the most experience on the team.... it doesn't really help the argument, does it?

I'm not hanging this on Dame. Not at all. You can kindly climb down off that soap box. The rest of the team is playing like crap, but I'm also seeing Dame forcing things and making bad decisions. He's not without blame.
 
Natebishop3 said:
Scapegoat? I have been defending Dame all series, but when we're talking about how valuable it is to gain experience of being in the playoffs, and Dame has the most experience on the team.... it doesn't really help the argument, does it?

I'm not hanging this on Dame. Not at all. You can kindly climb down off that soap box. The rest of the team is playing like crap, but I'm also seeing Dame forcing things and making bad decisions. He's not without blame.
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IT does if you actually listen to what we are saying. Dame has the experience. doesn't mean he should be able to control the game all of a sudden unless his teammates are at the same level experience wise. How are you not getting that? One person can only do so much especially when everyone else is a rookie so to speak.
 
Natebishop3 said:
Really the point of the thread is to point out that Mason Plumlee has been a big positive in the playoffs, and he was acquired with a pick. Not so much to harp specifically on the argument over whether playoffs or pick are better. I just saw people arguing about how much a rookie would help us right now, and I just thought it was funny because last year's pick is helping us quite a bit right now.
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I agree Mason played great last night. He was a good value addition to the team and a smart move by Olshey.
 
Orion Bailey said:
IT does if you actually listen to what we are saying. Dame has the experience. doesn't mean he should be able to control the game all of a sudden unless his teammates are at the same level experience wise. How are you not getting that? One person can only do so much especially when everyone else is a rookie so to speak.
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I'm curious what you think is "controlling the game."

I agree, that the Clippers are putting us in a position where we are counting on our other players to step up and make shots. They're doubling Dame. Paul is an amazing defender by himself, so this has been an extremely difficult series for Lillard, but at some point he needs to trust his teammates and make the Clippers pay for doubling him.

Here is his line from last night

6-22 from the field, 0-5 from three, 6 rebounds, 3 assists, 4 turnovers and 4 blocked attempts.

22 field goal attempts tied CP3 for the most in the game. 22 field goal attempts by a guy who is simply hot shooting well right now. He isn't trusting his teammates. He's forcing things. Part of this, I think, has to do with him experiencing his first playoffs as The Man, but he's a point guard and his job is to get his teammates involved.

Obviously, his teammates need to hit shots, which is why I'm not harping on his assists, but he can't stop passing just because they're not hitting. He's not hitting either.
 
Orion Bailey said:
Not sure where you got that?

MY views have changed about almost the whole roster, but I have yet to voice it, so not sure where that came from? :)
I have no more faith in Crabbe, Harkless, AMinu, Vonleh and Hendo than I do Plums at this point. They all seem to be decent role players, but currently, thats about it. Im not sure if any of them can become that third go to guy, and if not, then we need to figure out who WILL work best with he team and whoever we get, and who wont, so the ones that wont are the ones to go.
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Just a friendly dig over the times you chided me for my lack of faith in Meyers and Vonleh. :devilwink:
 
Natebishop3 said:
I'm curious what you think is "controlling the game."

I agree, that the Clippers are putting us in a position where we are counting on our other players to step up and make shots. They're doubling Dame. Paul is an amazing defender by himself, so this has been an extremely difficult series for Lillard, but at some point he needs to trust his teammates and make the Clippers pay for doubling him.

Here is his line from last night

6-22 from the field, 0-5 from three, 6 rebounds, 3 assists, 4 turnovers and 4 blocked attempts.

22 field goal attempts tied CP3 for the most in the game. 22 field goal attempts by a guy who is simply hot shooting well right now. He isn't trusting his teammates. He's forcing things. Part of this, I think, has to do with him experiencing his first playoffs as The Man, but he's a point guard and his job is to get his teammates involved.

Obviously, his teammates need to hit shots, which is why I'm not harping on his assists, but he can't stop passing just because they're not hitting. He's not hitting either.
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Controlling the game. hmmm, im thinking getting what he wants. Making the game play his way rather than the clips. Hard to define really, but hopefully that helps to give an idea of what I mean.

Its not that I dont agree with you, but it seems like you think he took way too many shots and should have passed more. 22 shots. Is that too many? I dont know the average, but that seems about right for a star player to take and still have plenty of ball to distribute.
I dont see him playing ball like westbrook if thats what you are getting at. If anything its CJ who should pass more rather than dribble out the clock in my opinion.
 
Orion Bailey said:
Controlling the game. hmmm, im thinking getting what he wants. Making the game play his way rather than the clips. Hard to define really, but hopefully that helps to give an idea of what I mean.

Its not that I dont agree with you, but it seems like you think he took way too many shots and should have passed more. 22 shots. Is that too many? I dont know the average, but that seems about right for a star player to take and still have plenty of ball to distribute.
I dont see him playing ball like westbrook if thats what you are getting at. If anything its CJ who should pass more rather than dribble out the clock in my opinion.
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Cj has played just as atrociously.

Dare I say he can be feast or famine?
 
Orion Bailey said:
Id say more so than Dame, because if CJ isnt hitting his shots, he doesnt pass....
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There was a certain poster that told me that CJ was always consistent... I gave him almost 15 games where he had a bad 4-6 game stretch.

I did it multiple times.

He never responded. He knew he was wrong.

CJ can be just as feast or famine as Dame. It's what we have to live with. No reason to get upset about it... it's just what we have.
 
QUOTE="Strenuus, post: 3878590, member: 27918"]Cj has played just as atrociously.

Dare I say he can be feast or famine?[/QUOTE]

I said before game 1 that Terry needed to have CJ in with either Dame of Roberts based on the Clippers excellent trapping D. (One of the best in the NBA over the last 3 years IMO) But lets get serious, if CJ had options to pass to, he would. He had 5 assists last night and only 2 turnovers in 38 minutes. What is he going to do...pass to a wide open Aminu? That has not worked out well.

The Clips play tough D. Give credit where credit is do. Portland will shoot better at home, but with Blake back, the Clippers are deep and talented.
 
This is ridiculous. We owed them a pick. Time to pay the Piper.
 
Strenuus said:
There was a certain poster that told me that CJ was always consistent... I gave him almost 15 games where he had a bad 4-6 game stretch.

I did it multiple times.

He never responded. He knew he was wrong.

CJ can be just as feast or famine as Dame. It's what we have to live with. No reason to get upset about it... it's just what we have.
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Ok fine so u admit Dame is feast or famine. Then lets trade one of them if thats the case bc this isnt working
 
Pinwheel1 said:
I said before game 1 that Terry needed to have CJ in with either Dame of Roberts based on the Clippers excellent trapping D. (One of the best in the NBA over the last 3 years IMO) But lets get serious, if CJ had options to pass to, he would. He had 5 assists last night and only 2 turnovers in 38 minutes. What is he going to do...pass to a wide open Aminu? That has not worked out well.

The Clips play tough D. Give credit where credit is do. Portland will shoot better at home, but with Blake back, the Clippers are deep and talented.
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So both of our guards have that issue?

This wasn't feast or famine on assists, btw... that's not what that was about.
 
It's great to see a loser mentality being developed among fans. Yeah, don't win games, be bad and get a draft pick because that would obviously be very important as opposed to young guys being exposed to their first playoff experience and growing from it. Let's go the Philly and Minnesota route and just gather asset after asset year after year and have nothing to show for it. All of a sudden you want a draft pick because we are down 0-2. Even if we were winning it wouldn't matter because our asses would be whooped facing golden state. That's not the point though. It's about experience and development. But hey if you want to win 20 games a season for a lottery pick that isn't guaranteed anything go for it. Trust in the process right? Lol
 
Natebishop3 said:
That value is worthless if half of those players are gone next season.

Hendo
Harkless
Crabbe
Leonard

Dame already had experience.
CJ had experience.
Aminu had experience.

That experience is negligible if the roster changes significantly next season. And our two best players have been to the playoffs, how are they doing right now? I honestly think "getting playoff experience" is one of the most overrated ideas among fans.
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None of those guys had playoff experience in their respective roles, and we won't lose all 4 of those guys. Point for Bones.
 
He did pretty well in game 2.
Game 1 though was nothing to write home about.
19:02, 1/6, 5rbs, 4fouls, 4 points.

I'll be interested to see if he can repeat game 2 in the Rose Garden. Or if he shows game 1 is more like him.
 
BonesJones said:
None of those guys had playoff experience in their respective roles, and we won't lose all 4 of those guys. Point for Bones.
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Eh, you don't know that. I could see Neil renouncing the rights to all of those players if he could sign a whale.
 
Natebishop3 said:
Eh, you don't know that. I could see Neil renouncing the rights to all of those players if he could sign a whale.
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Well if we can sign a whale there's no need worry about losing a pick
 
BonesJones said:
Well if we can sign a whale there's no need worry about losing a pick
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Sure, but it kinda negates the whole "experience from the playoffs" thing, doesn't it? We coulda renounced those dudes and signed a whale with, or without, the playoffs.
 
Natebishop3 said:
Sure, but it kinda negates the whole "experience from the playoffs" thing, doesn't it? We coulda renounced those dudes and signed a whale with, or without, the playoffs.
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Yeah but the experience will help whoever comes back.
 
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