Why is everyone giving up on Joel?

Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

cheesehoff

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2010
Messages
629
Likes
739
Points
93
Okay, bad injury...twice. But for the last couple years he's been huge on and off the court, in the stats and as an enforcer. So with our history of injuries to bigs is it time to get rid of him. Camby ain't young, Oden has huge risks, Joel probably has little more value than ec, we certainly don't have an abundance of tough guys and if he comes back we get an excellent rebounder/defender. It seems that just a few months after the lovefest for Joel, this fanbase is just throwing his name into every trade scenario like he means nothing. Of all the things people are saying about players and moves, all the 'throw in Joel's contract' talk seems pretty shady. I understand the business of basketball, but what about showing some allegiance to the one guy on this team who has earned it more than anyone.
 
He's badly injured, he's an expiring contract, and we now have Oden and Camby, not hard to figure out.
 
Oden and Camby should hardly be enough to go into the season with. We are a team of softies and would/have got killed by the physical style in the playoffs. Pryz's value is the same as Oden's in that they are worth far more to our team than any other team in the league. ie-their trade value is far lower than their ability level. As soon as Oden or Camby get hurt and we have to call on Howard to play extended minutes, our season is over. I believe Oden can come back and be a great player just as much as any other fan, but I also know the likelihood of losing one of the two is pretty high. What then? The insurance policy of Joel rehabbing and coming back at some point is MUCH higher than his trade value. I can just hear people (the ones who say get rid of him) at some point next season saying 'wish we still had Joel.' Expiring contracts are about the most overrated subject on these boards.
 
Last edited:
I think there was a general assumption that Joel would leave after this year, anyway, due to Oden's emergence. Combine that with an injury bad enough that a lot of people think it will end or severely limit his career, and suddenly he's of more perceived value as a trade chip.
 
Joel is not only big and long, but he was also a relatively quick (not high) jumper and quick laterally. That injury robbed him of that quickness. Everyone that has come back from that injury has had to alter their game to one more on the ground. It's also a two-year rehab to get back to whatever you're going to get back to. He'll return this year, and look slower than Vlad Stepania. We're unlikely to re-sign him after his contract expires, so his highest value is as an expiring contract that will be largely paid by insurance. It sucks, but that's the reality given Joel's age, ability and contract status.
 
Very logical MaxiP..

But if anyone can come back from this injury it's Przybilla. Joel probably works twice as hard as the average NBA player, it's not easy being white in the nba, let alone a big man. I'm guessing the reason why he re-injured it in the first place was because he was so far ahead of schedule rehabbing that he got overconfident in his recovery status. A mistake I don't think he'll make again. Furthermore, I think he'll come back to being an anchor in the middle that guards would avoid at all cost. While he lateral quickness may not be all there, Przybilla can jump pretty high, for a 7ft white guy
 
If everyone is 60% then everyone is probably giving up on him. But looking at his track record I'm sure he'll be back strong and valuable to any team
 
Joel's a tough, beer drinkin, 7-ft white boy. I like having him on the team.
 
It's still a sad fact his game has circled the bowl and is slowly floating out to sea. We might as well see what we can get for his expiring contract. Besides, we may draft a decent defensive center and also have Freeland stashed in Europe.
 
But if anyone can come back from this injury it's Przybilla. Joel probably works twice as hard as the average NBA player...
I don't see any evidence of that... He plays hard, but he's never added any offensive refinement to his game, and despite all the hype about his MMA/kickboxing off-season conditioning, the video footage of it they showed on the news was quite pathetic by even non-athlete standards. And I would actually consider Joel to be an above average athlete among 7 ft'ers, so that can't be claimed as something he had to overcome.
 
Oden and Camby should hardly be enough to go into the season with.

Why not? I don't think that many teams have THREE starting-level centers on their team.

I hope Joel comes back, but whether he does or not is independent of whether we, as fans, think he will or not.

Ed O.
 
Why not? I don't think that many teams have THREE starting-level centers on their team.

I hope Joel comes back, but whether he does or not is independent of whether we, as fans, think he will or not.

Ed O.

The Cavs?

Even if Shaq by himself is as big as THREE starting-level centers.
 
One patellar tendon tear is bad, tearing it again 3 months later is probably more than just twice as bad. I loved Joel while he was here, but with his soon to be expiring contract and the very difficult road ahead of him in terms of rehabbing just to get back to the point where he can walk normally (let alone the mobility required of a professional athlete, I think it's a pretty safe bet that Joel's time as a Blazer is rapidly drawing to a close.

It sucks, but there's a certain amount of contractual and "physical" inertia at work here that seems to be too great.
 
Look at the players who had a similar injury; Cedric Ceballos, Antonio McDyess, Glen Rice, Damon Stoudemire, Alonzo Mourning.

Torn or partially torn patellar tendon: A much more severe injury.

SF Cedric Ceballos, 1996-97, age 27, Lakers/Suns

Partial tear of the right patellar tendon in November 1996, expected to be out 2 months. He got reactivated in January, but it continued to bother him throughout the season missing several more games with a strained patella in March after a trade to the Suns. He continued to have s ome problems with his right knee (meniscus) and especially his wrists over the following years. Some drop in production, though he did have another strong season with the Mavericks in 1999-00.



PF Antonio McDyess, 2001-2003, age 27-29, Nuggets: Several fractures and tears

Subluxated left patella in March 2001 (partial/incomplete dislocation). Missed remainder of the season.

Initially there was no surgery, then in October 2001 he required surgery to repair what was then diagnosed as a partially torn patellar tendon. In addition he needed arthroscopic surgery on the right knee to clean out some loose debris and was expected to be out 3-4 months. In March 2002 he briefly got activated, but was deactivated quickly again when both knees got inflamed.

Next season: Joining the Knicks that offseason, he was immediately placed on the injured list with a "left knee inflammation", and then in October required another surgery to repair a fracture to the left patella. In April 2003 he needed yet another surgery on the left knee patella missing the entire 2002-03 season.

When finally returning to action, he played in 42 games in 2003-04 season. Then continued to play several seasons completely or close to. His statistics dropped significantly across the board before going up slightly again but never back to previous state. However as of now he is still active as a rotation player.



SF Glen Rice, 2001-02, age 34, Rockets

Partial tear in December required surgery on right knee a month later, out for the remainder of the season.

Next season: Appeared in 62 games, but he continued to have some problems with the right knee (strain, hyperextension, bruise). His stats dropped slightly, and at age 36 he was reaching his career end the following season where he appeared in his last 18 games.



PG Damon Stoudemire, 2005-06, age 32, Grizzlies

Surgery on torn right patellar tendon in January 2006 after injuring it just before the end of the year, out for remainder of the season.

He already had suffered from what was deemed 'left knee tendinitis' a decade earlier when on the Raptors missing the end of the 1995-96 season without going into detail which tendon. While with the Blazers he missed much of November with 2001 right knee tendinitis.

Next season: Played in 62 games. Stats dropped to level from a few years earlier while about maintaining efficiency. Career end after 2007-08 season where he played in another 60 games.



C Alonzo Mourning, 2007, age 37, Heat

Surgery on right knee to repair torn patellar tendon after 25 games, out for remainder of the season.

Update: He had already sustained a partial tear in the left knee in 1997 pausing for ca. 3 months (initial diagnosis was 8 to 12 weeks), and missed a few games in December 2004 with 'right knee tendinitis'.

Next season: Ended career



SG Kelenna Azubuike, 2009, age 26, Warriors

Torn patellar tendon in left knee after having appeared in 9 games, out for the season. In the video of the injury it looked like someone had beaten him out of mid-air with a bat when he tried to go up on a drive to the basket.

They were all shells of their former selves. I will be shocked if Joel is ever an effective NBA player again.
 
The expiring 7 million is far too valuable to let it sit on our roster for next season.
 
Look at the players who had a similar injury; Cedric Ceballos, Antonio McDyess, Glen Rice, Damon Stoudemire, Alonzo Mourning.



They were all shells of their former selves. I will be shocked if Joel is ever an effective NBA player again.

All those guys were well over 30, except McDyess, and he was able to come back to excellent form for the Pistons well into his 30s. It did take a few seasons to recover, though.
 
All those guys were well over 30, except McDyess, and he was able to come back to excellent form for the Pistons well into his 30s. It did take a few seasons to recover, though.

I didn't really watch much Piston basketball, but I didn't think McDyess could be called excellent... not anywhere close to what he was. Am I wrong?
 
I didn't really watch much Piston basketball, but I didn't think McDyess could be called excellent... not anywhere close to what he was. Am I wrong?

He didn't play the same kind of minutes as he did in Denver. He shot better and his rebounds/36 minutes were better in Detroit. The two things you want in a big man, right?
 
He didn't play the same kind of minutes as he did in Denver. He shot better and his rebounds/36 minutes were better in Detroit. The two things you want in a big man, right?

Ummm no. In his youth he was one of the top PF in the game and in All-star. After he finally recovered from those injuries he was never the same, he became an acceptable starter or good backup.

Joel was an acceptable starter or a good backup, so if he has a similar decline he'll be playing YMCA ball.
 
He didn't play the same kind of minutes as he did in Denver. He shot better and his rebounds/36 minutes were better in Detroit. The two things you want in a big man, right?

I don't know.... in Denver he was one of the most explosive scorers in the league. I remember him tearing us apart on many occasions. I think he ended up being a very solid player, but compared to what he was... not excellent.
 
You guys bring up good points, but If Theo Ratliff can come back after multiple knee injuries and average 2 blocks a game Joel can survive one major knee injury. His body is so strong I'm sure all his other ligaments will be strong enough to support the weaker ones. Przybilla the Vanilla Gorilla will not become extinct, Mark My Word
 
You guys bring up good points, but If Theo Ratliff can come back after multiple knee injuries and average 2 blocks a game Joel can survive one major knee injury. His body is so strong I'm sure all his other ligaments will be strong enough to support the weaker ones. Przybilla the Vanilla Gorilla will not become extinct, Mark My Word

Two injuries ... to the same knee ... two months apart. Finito.
 
Greg . . . Joel . . . Marcus . . . . . that should ensure that we at least have one starting center for 82 games, right?

OK maybe a second round draft pick on a center just to be safe . . .
 
Two injuries ... to the same knee ... two months apart. Finito.

Sadly, this is how I feel. Except instead of "injuries", I'd write "Patellar tendon ruptures". :dunno: :sigh:
 
Last edited:
I see two reasons to give up on Joel.
1. He won't be back until at least the All-star break.
2. We have weaknesses at other positions. You've gotta give something to get something.
 
At best he comes back halfway through next year anyhow. That is a best case scenario.
 
You guys bring up good points, but If Theo Ratliff can come back after multiple knee injuries and average 2 blocks a game Joel can survive one major knee injury. His body is so strong I'm sure all his other ligaments will be strong enough to support the weaker ones. Przybilla the Vanilla Gorilla will not become extinct, Mark My Word
marked

33, 71, 32, 17, 76, 56, 43, 77, 82, 30... those are the by year games played totals since he came into the league. If anything, dude's career could be characterized as constantly injured. His "strong body" has regularly failed him back in his 20's, why should we expect anything different in his 30's?

STOMP
 
marked

33, 71, 32, 17, 76, 56, 43, 77, 82, 30... those are the by year games played totals since he came into the league. If anything, dude's career could be characterized as constantly injured. His "strong body" has regularly failed him back in his 20's, why should we expect anything different in his 30's?

STOMP

It also means you would have to be satisfied with a guy who is basically playing at a scrub level. Ratliff hasn't played well since his contract year in Portland. Is that really a marker for success?
 
Okay maybe I was over exaggerating a bit, but I still believe that if anyone can come back from this it's Joel. The man is hard. I think he can still be as good as Eric Dampier FWIW.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top