Why Lillard's move might herald the destruction of Small Market teams

[Idog1976]

I think this video is well worth watching and spells out exactly why I'm so appalled by what "Dame's camp" is doing. I'm hopeful that Silver will support Cronin is shutting this down and trading Dame wherever we get the best package. What his camp is doing is absolutely atrocious on basically every level and it has VAST consequences for the NBA, more or less turning less favorable markets into a glorified G-League.

 

[KingSpeed]

Well, no on super loyal. He’s refusing to honor 4 years on a contract.

 

[Everything Beagle]

No free agents coming to Portland... ever? is more proof than Dame leaving ever could be.

 

[e_blazer]

It seems to me that a player and his agent who take this hard line approach of only being willing to go to a single team, and who let that be known around the league for the specific purpose of discouraging other teams from making more valuable offers to a team like the Blazers, should be able to be sued for damages. Clearly they are not operating in good faith subject to the terms of their contracts and the CBA. The player is under contract and is deliberately taking steps to get what they want regardless of the damage to their former team. In this country we have legal recourse to resolve things like this in civil court. If Silver doesn’t step in and make Dame have a minimum list of several teams that he would go to, I hope Jody and the Vulcans Sue his ass. I love Dame, but this power move to only go to Miami is BS.

 

[HoopsFanAZ]

Cronin and Lillard’s teammates have been respectful, calm, and reasonable in public, so far. Keep it up.
Everyone gets to choose their own behavior.

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

Agreed. Lillard and his agent knew how the system works and if they wanted to maintain the freedom to pick a team to go to they needed to do it earlier or not sign a long term max deal. they could have just signed a one year deal and waited to see what Cronin could do.. I think the league needs to step in here and let Lillard and his agent and Miami know that this is not acceptable.

 

[ebott]

I just feel like small market teams have always been shit on and especially since the Sonics moved, we've been shit on even more and we've become the Siberia of the NBA.

 

[THE HCP]

I just feel like small market teams have always been shit on and especially since the Sonics moved, we've been shit on even more and we've become the Siberia of the NBA.

Curious what you consider “small market”?

 

[e_blazer]

Curious what you consider “small market”?

That’s how your wife refers to you. #BAM!

 

[wizenheimer]

I haven't watched the video yet but title seems pretty alarmist.

it's not like Dame asked out from a team that did everything they could and didn't miss any opportunities.

* Portland drafted Meyers Leonard when Draymond Green and Khris Middleton were available
* they drafted CJ when Giannis was available
* they made max offers to Roy Hibbert, Enes Kanter, Greg Monroe and Chandler Parsons
* they traded for Afflalo using a 19th pick in a draft when at 19, Siakam, Dejounte Murray, and Malcolm Brogdon was available
* they refused to include CJ in trade talks for Paul George and Jimmy Butler
* The used a 15 + 20 pick for Zach Collins when they could have had a combo of Adebayo, Donovan Mitchell, John Collins, Jarret Allen, and OG
* they traded cap-space for Anderson Varejao to secure a 1st round pick, spent millions of dollars on the pick, then used it for Swanigan
* They traded Gary Trent for a 6'3 guard who plays bad defense than tried to run a starting unit of 6'2, 6'3, 6'3, and 6'7
* They traded two 1st round picks for Covington, then dumped him to get under the tax
* then they traded a 1st round pick for Nance and locked up all of Portland's 1st's for 7 years
* they have a penny-pinching ownership group that seems to care more about money than fielding a competitive team

so I'd wonder, would Dame have asked out if the Blazers had not made all of those terrible moves or missed all of those great opportunities. Is this situation because Portland is a small market or because Portland had a decade of GM malpractice?

 

[ebott]

Curious what you consider “small market”?

Any city with less than 650,000 people. But also distance from other big cities is a part of the deal. Like, I wouldn't call Anaheim a small market cause it's rihht there between LA and San Diego.

 

[BBert]

I think this video is well worth watching and spells out exactly why I'm so appalled by what "Dame's camp" is doing. I'm hopeful that Silver will support Cronin is shutting this down and trading Dame wherever we get the best package. What his camp is doing is absolutely atrocious on basically every level and it has VAST consequences for the NBA, more or less turning less favorable markets into a glorified G-League.

Why would Silver be opposed to something the NBA has always supported?

 

[e_blazer]

I haven't watched the video yet but title seems pretty alarmist.

it's not like Dame asked out from a team that did everything they could and didn't miss any opportunities.

* Portland drafted Meyers Leonard when Draymond Green and Khris Middleton were available
* they drafted CJ when Giannis was available
* they made max offers to Roy Hibbert, Enes Kanter, Greg Monroe and Chandler Parsons
* they traded for Afflalo using a 19th pick in a draft when at 19, Siakam, Dejounte Murray, and Malcolm Brogdon was available
* they refused to include CJ in trade talks for Paul George and Jimmy Butler
* The used a 15 + 20 pick for Zach Collins when they could have had a combo of Adebayo, Donovan Mitchell, John Collins, Jarret Allen, and OG
* they traded cap-space for Anderson Varejao to secure a 1st round pick, spent millions of dollars on the pick, then used it for Swanigan
* They traded Gary Trent for a 6'3 guard who plays bad defense than tried to run a starting unit of 6'2, 6'3, 6'3, and 6'7
* They traded two 1st round picks for Covington, then dumped him to get under the tax
* then they traded a 1st round pick for Nance and locked up all of Portland's 1st's for 7 years
* they have a penny-pinching ownership group that seems to care more about money than fielding a competitive team

so I'd wonder, would Dame have asked out if the Blazers had not made all of those terrible moves or missed all of those great opportunities. Is this situation because Portland is a small market or because Portland had a decade of GM malpractice?

It’s not the asking out that raises the concern; it’s the mandating a trade to just one team.

 

[BBert]

It seems to me that a player and his agent who take this hard line approach of only being willing to go to a single team, and who let that be known around the league for the specific purpose of discouraging other teams from making more valuable offers to a team like the Blazers, should be able to be sued for damages. Clearly they are not operating in good faith subject to the terms of their contracts and the CBA. The player is under contract and is deliberately taking steps to get what they want regardless of the damage to their former team. In this country we have legal recourse to resolve things like this in civil court. If Silver doesn’t step in and make Dame have a minimum list of several teams that he would go to, I hope Jody and the Vulcans Sue his ass. I love Dame, but this power move to only go to Miami is BS.

Would something like this void the contract in other businesses?

 

[beast blazer]

I haven't watched the video yet but title seems pretty alarmist.

it's not like Dame asked out from a team that did everything they could and didn't miss any opportunities.

* Portland drafted Meyers Leonard when Draymond Green and Khris Middleton were available
* they drafted CJ when Giannis was available
* they made max offers to Roy Hibbert, Enes Kanter, Greg Monroe and Chandler Parsons
* they traded for Afflalo using a 19th pick in a draft when at 19, Siakam, Dejounte Murray, and Malcolm Brogdon was available
* they refused to include CJ in trade talks for Paul George and Jimmy Butler
* The used a 15 + 20 pick for Zach Collins when they could have had a combo of Adebayo, Donovan Mitchell, John Collins, Jarret Allen, and OG
* they traded cap-space for Anderson Varejao to secure a 1st round pick, spent millions of dollars on the pick, then used it for Swanigan
* They traded Gary Trent for a 6'3 guard who plays bad defense than tried to run a starting unit of 6'2, 6'3, 6'3, and 6'7
* They traded two 1st round picks for Covington, then dumped him to get under the tax
* then they traded a 1st round pick for Nance and locked up all of Portland's 1st's for 7 years
* they have a penny-pinching ownership group that seems to care more about money than fielding a competitive team

so I'd wonder, would Dame have asked out if the Blazers had not made all of those terrible moves or missed all of those great opportunities. Is this situation because Portland is a small market or because Portland had a decade of GM malpractice?

The point of the video is that this sets a precedent for star players to be able to go anywhere they want anytime they want to. Formerly it was free agency, or players with only a year left on their deal. So they could be like, yeah, you can not trade me, but I'll leave next year via free agency and you'll end up holding an empty sack. Dame has 4 years left on his contract.

 

[beast blazer]

Curious what you consider “small market”?

 

[e_blazer]

Would something like this void the contract in other businesses?

No idea, but it seems like that would be a reasonable request.

I think there’s zero chance it comes to what I suggested. Eventually, they will rope in a third team to take Herro and add a first round pick for Portland and get to something palatable enough that Cronin will take the deal instead of pissing off the Player’s Union. That said, this needs to be addressed by the league because it’s a bullshit move.

 

[Idog1976]

I haven't watched the video yet but title seems pretty alarmist.

it's not like Dame asked out from a team that did everything they could and didn't miss any opportunities.

* Portland drafted Meyers Leonard when Draymond Green and Khris Middleton were available
* they drafted CJ when Giannis was available
* they made max offers to Roy Hibbert, Enes Kanter, Greg Monroe and Chandler Parsons
* they traded for Afflalo using a 19th pick in a draft when at 19, Siakam, Dejounte Murray, and Malcolm Brogdon was available
* they refused to include CJ in trade talks for Paul George and Jimmy Butler
* The used a 15 + 20 pick for Zach Collins when they could have had a combo of Adebayo, Donovan Mitchell, John Collins, Jarret Allen, and OG
* they traded cap-space for Anderson Varejao to secure a 1st round pick, spent millions of dollars on the pick, then used it for Swanigan
* They traded Gary Trent for a 6'3 guard who plays bad defense than tried to run a starting unit of 6'2, 6'3, 6'3, and 6'7
* They traded two 1st round picks for Covington, then dumped him to get under the tax
* then they traded a 1st round pick for Nance and locked up all of Portland's 1st's for 7 years
* they have a penny-pinching ownership group that seems to care more about money than fielding a competitive team

so I'd wonder, would Dame have asked out if the Blazers had not made all of those terrible moves or missed all of those great opportunities. Is this situation because Portland is a small market or because Portland had a decade of GM malpractice?

This post wasn't to demonize Dame, or criticize his asking to be traded. You missed the point of the video. The point isn't did Portland try and was Dame patient for X years. The point is, now player's contracts and by extension Free Agency are meaningless as players will simply sign the largest contract then can, and then demand a trade to another team.

It isn't even about Dame, its that if Dame, a player known for his loyalty can do this, why wouldn't every other player who is in a less than ideal circumstance not demand the same thing? They can just follow his playbook and use the media and his agent to force the issue thereby screwing over their now former team and making the only part of the contract that matters being the part where the player gets paid "X amount of $.". There is then no guarantee of value at all for the team signing the contract.

This is entirely different from prior times when players with a year or two left pulled this kind of move. This is why there is a no-trade clause. Dame didn't get one and if he is able to pull this off, it could indeed set a nightmare precedent. Other players aren't going to care about all the context you wrote, they will just see Dame being successful (if he indeed is) and say "well fuck, I just sign a fat contract and then force my way out regardless of years and why telegraph that with a no-trade clause when I can just write my own no-trade clause.".

 

[Wizard Mentor]

How about having players only receive the supermax while they're playing the team that gave them the supermax. So, supermax players would be begging to not be traded.

 

[Idog1976]

Why would Silver be opposed to something the NBA has always supported?

Yeah that's a fair point, it does really highlight that undesirable markets have to draft a Superstar top 5 player in the league and pray they build in time. If this isn't addressed by Silver, in a few years it will just be sign that rookie extension and demand out. I'm not sure why owners who aren't in about 8 or so teams wouldn't be absolutely furious at this precedent. I think everyone is still processing the implications. I predict Dame will be humbled by this strategic error of releasing the hounds via "his camp". Dame is super frustrated and I don't blame him, but I pray he reels this in and does damage control. I also think the League maybe does need to make a statement here or else, contracts are basically one-sided affairs and that has dire implications for the League IMO.

 

[Idog1976]

How about having players only receive the supermax while they're playing the team that gave them the supermax. So, supermax players would be begging to not be traded.

This is a good potential solution and I'm sure there are others. The point is this has really gotten out of hand and the Dame situation does seem to be an inflection point.

 

[Paine Tablet]

I haven't watched the video yet but title seems pretty alarmist.

it's not like Dame asked out from a team that did everything they could and didn't miss any opportunities.

* Portland drafted Meyers Leonard when Draymond Green and Khris Middleton were available
* they drafted CJ when Giannis was available
* they made max offers to Roy Hibbert, Enes Kanter, Greg Monroe and Chandler Parsons
* they traded for Afflalo using a 19th pick in a draft when at 19, Siakam, Dejounte Murray, and Malcolm Brogdon was available
* they refused to include CJ in trade talks for Paul George and Jimmy Butler
* The used a 15 + 20 pick for Zach Collins when they could have had a combo of Adebayo, Donovan Mitchell, John Collins, Jarret Allen, and OG
* they traded cap-space for Anderson Varejao to secure a 1st round pick, spent millions of dollars on the pick, then used it for Swanigan
* They traded Gary Trent for a 6'3 guard who plays bad defense than tried to run a starting unit of 6'2, 6'3, 6'3, and 6'7
* They traded two 1st round picks for Covington, then dumped him to get under the tax
* then they traded a 1st round pick for Nance and locked up all of Portland's 1st's for 7 years
* they have a penny-pinching ownership group that seems to care more about money than fielding a competitive team

so I'd wonder, would Dame have asked out if the Blazers had not made all of those terrible moves or missed all of those great opportunities. Is this situation because Portland is a small market or because Portland had a decade of GM malpractice?

They also didn't tank when Lebron, Duncan, and Dwight Howard were eligible to be drafted. Much like whiffing on Giannis, Draymond, and Middleton just like everyone else - they need to be held responsible!!! Any good GM needs injury predictor glasses and hidden gem glasses or else they are incompetent. Whining about the CJ pick is probably the biggest bitch move possible.

 

[maxiep]

Curious what you consider “small market”?

The list for me would be Portland, Sac, Utah, OKC, Memphis, NO, San Antonio, Indiana, Milwaukee, Charlotte and Orlando. Some have made up for it by having a great organization, great players, great coaches, better weather, or rich owners who will spend unlimited sums.

We used to be one of those model franchises. I think SAS, Utah, OKC and Milwaukee have those advantages right now.

 

[1 Eye Jack]

If you have a good to great team (90’s Blazers) then free agents will come. If I remember right Moses Malone and Barkley both wanted to come to PDX back in the day. To be honest free agency is rarely the answer you need to build through the draft and make smart trades.

 

[inconceivable]

Agreed. Lillard and his agent knew how the system works and if they wanted to maintain the freedom to pick a team to go to they needed to do it earlier or not sign a long term max deal. they could have just signed a one year deal and waited to see what Cronin could do.. I think the league needs to step in here and let Lillard and his agent and Miami know that this is not acceptable.

It's called Free Agency

 

[Sloth]

I'm just waiting for the NBA to allow college players to have a 'No draft' clause to avoid going to teams they'd rather not play for haha.

 

[wizenheimer]

They also didn't tank when Lebron, Duncan, and Dwight Howard were eligible to be drafted. Much like whiffing on Giannis, Draymond, and Middleton just like everyone else - they need to be held responsible!!! Any good GM needs injury predictor glasses and hidden gem glasses or else they are incompetent. Whining about the CJ pick is probably the biggest bitch move possible.

who was "whining" about the CJ pick?

it was just a missed opportunity, among a list of missed opportunities, miscalculations, and mismangement

 

[Predator]

In order for this to become a legitimate problem:

These players have to actually be willing to sit out and lose millions of dollars like Ben Simmons was willing to do.

Otherwise his agent could say: “Yeah, he requested a trade to a specific team but they could’ve kept him and he would’ve shown up and honored his contract.”

I don’t think there has been any reporting to indicate if Dame wasn’t traded he wouldn’t honor his contract.

Part of the issue is our rookie GM “trying to work Dame” instead of saying, “if we get a meaningful package, sure, we will trade you. Otherwise, look forward to seeing you at the start of training camp”.

 

[wizenheimer]

This post wasn't to demonize Dame, or criticize his asking to be traded. You missed the point of the video. The point isn't did Portland try and was Dame patient for X years. The point is, now player's contracts and by extension Free Agency are meaningless as players will simply sign the largest contract then can, and then demand a trade to another team.

It isn't even about Dame, its that if Dame, a player known for his loyalty can do this, why wouldn't every other player who is in a less than ideal circumstance not demand the same thing? They can just follow his playbook and use the media and his agent to force the issue thereby screwing over their now former team and making the only part of the contract that matters being the part where the player gets paid "X amount of $.". There is then no guarantee of value at all for the team signing the contract.

This is entirely different from prior times when players with a year or two left pulled this kind of move. This is why there is a no-trade clause. Dame didn't get one and if he is able to pull this off, it could indeed set a nightmare precedent. Other players aren't going to care about all the context you wrote, they will just see Dame being successful (if he indeed is) and say "well fuck, I just sign a fat contract and then force my way out regardless of years and why telegraph that with a no-trade clause when I can just write my own no-trade clause.".

All I was trying to point out was that ascribing this situation to small-market vs big-market wasn't really the case. Portland's high water mark in the Dame era was probably 2013-14. That team fell apart and Olshey could never really build a comparable team. It's not like Dame didn't give Portland several years to get it right, or even appear to be heading in the right direction. They never did. If the Blzers had capitalized on just a couple of those opportunities we wouldn't be where we are right now. I mean, if Portland had taken Bam instead of Zach, that likely would have been more than enough to keep Dame on board for good

I agree that Dame's Miami or bust stance and the actions of Dame's agent are shitty. I am convinced that Riley has been colluding with the agent too. But this isn't really unprecedented. Kareem forced his way to LA nearly 50 years ago. Melo essentially forced his way out of Denver to NY. Deron Williams forced his way to NJ. Recently, Paul George forced his way to LAC

 

[julius]

https://hoop-social.com/nba-team-market-size-rankings/ interesting perspective.

In some aspects (metro and tv market size) Portland is bigger than 8 teams/cities in the NBA.