OT Why Never Trumpers Should Bet on DeSantis Now

Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Register Log in

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 1 (members: 0, guests: 1)
Francis Collins is a genuine scientist, not a creationist. Until his recent retirement he was for many years director of National Institutes of Health. He is also an evangelical Christian. He wrote a book The Mind of God as an attempt to persuade science minded people of the reality of his god. I read it, as unlike others here I am not afraid to read things opposed to my world view. I was unimpressed. It's not that I expected him to persuade me, but I really expected something better than what I might see from an intelligent high school student, and was left with conclusion there are no arguments better than what an intelligent high school student can come up with. I prefer those who say they take it on faith. I don't agree with them but at least they are honest and don't try to pretend their religion has some scientific basis.

But when I went from "meh" to revulsion was when Collins described how his daughter was raped while she was a medical student by a man who broke into her apartment late at night. He was never caught. Collins eloquently describes her hysterical middle of the night phone call to her parents, her years of nightmares and flashbacks. Like many believers he asked how his god could allow something so horrible. Some answer by saying their god gave us free will to do good or evil, which I guess lets the god off the hook. Collins wanted something more concrete. His conclusion was that he, like all parents, wanted to protect his child and his daughter being raped was god's way of telling him he could not always do so. I mean what kind of vicious evil god arranges a woman to be raped to take down her father's pride? Also as a doctor she now has compassion for other rape victims, you know, all those other women his god arranged to be raped to teach their dads a lesson.

Like the old joke goes, thank god I'm an atheist.
 
But people who aren’t spiritual can’t receive these truths from God’s Spirit. It all sounds foolish to them and they can’t understand it, for only those who are spiritual can understand what the Spirit means ~1 Corinthians 2:14
 
I am not at all spiritual. I like material facts.
 
Then you're just fine where you're at
 
ABM said:
But people who aren’t spiritual can’t receive these truths from God’s Spirit. It all sounds foolish to them and they can’t understand it, for only those who are spiritual can understand what the Spirit means ~1 Corinthians 2:14
Click to expand...
"They just can't understand you, because you're special."

Sounds like every cult that has ever existed...
 
ABM said:
Could be. Well, at any rate, a few weren't so enthusiastic when he made his statements during the SOTU address...

https://theparadise.ng/the-squad-si...ys-fund-the-police-cori-bush-starts-shouting/
Click to expand...
I clicked your link... am I about to be spammed with right wing BS and Trump fundraising efforts? Regardless, it was a big nothing burger filled with innuendo. Despite what Tucker says, no federal level politician has publicly supported defunding the police. So sorry.

STOMP
 
Last edited:
STOMP said:
I clicked your link... am I about to be spammed with right wing BS and Trump fundraising efforts? Regardless, it was a big nothing burger filled with innuendo. Despite what Tucker says, no federal level politician has publicly supported defunding the police. So sorry.

STOMP
Click to expand...

Here's a similar take on the matter:

https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/02/politics/defund-the-police-biden-state-of-the-union/index.html

“With all due respect, Mr. President. You didn’t mention saving Black lives once in this speech,” tweeted Missouri Democratic Rep. Cori Bush following Biden’s address. “All our country has done is given more funding to police. The result? 2021 set a record for fatal police shootings. Defund the police. Invest in our communities.”
 
Phatguysrule said:
"They just can't understand you, because you're special."

Sounds like every cult that has ever existed...
Click to expand...

I simply quoted scripture.

Before I came to the Lord in 1992, the Bible was just a book to me. Nothing in it was compelling by any stretch. As crandc had mentioned, it was boring. Following that conversion, though, the scriptures completely opened up to me and effectively became alive. All that, coupled with miracles that began to happen in my life made (makes) for an ultra dynamic situation. There's no denying it. It's my testimony. It happened to me. Nobody can take that away from me. Won't happen.

Hey, I'm not here pushing my religion on anybody. It doesn't mean that I won't talk about it, though. Everyone in here has their own takes on things. I have my takes/beliefs, as well. If you want to judge me on those, so be it. It doesn't change a thing, though.
 
ABM said:
Here's a similar take on the matter:

https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/02/politics/defund-the-police-biden-state-of-the-union/index.html

“With all due respect, Mr. President. You didn’t mention saving Black lives once in this speech,” tweeted Missouri Democratic Rep. Cori Bush following Biden’s address. “All our country has done is given more funding to police. The result? 2021 set a record for fatal police shootings. Defund the police. Invest in our communities.”
Click to expand...
Everything the Congresswoman said is factually true. Bur she is Black, female, Democrat do it's a scandal.
 
ABM said:
I simply quoted scripture.

Before I came to the Lord in 1992, the Bible was just a book to me. Nothing in it was compelling by any stretch. As crandc had mentioned, it was boring. Following that conversion, though, the scriptures completely opened up to me and effectively became alive. All that, coupled with miracles that began to happen in my life made (makes) for an ultra dynamic situation. There's no denying it. It's my testimony. It happened to me. Nobody can take that away from me. Won't happen.

Hey, I'm not here pushing my religion on anybody. It doesn't mean that I won't talk about it, though. Everyone in here has their own takes on things. I have my takes/beliefs, as well. If you want to judge me on those, so be it. It doesn't change a thing, though.
Click to expand...
And I just responded with what that scripture means to me.

I'm not trying to take anything from you.
 
ABM said:
Here's a similar take on the matter:

https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/02/politics/defund-the-police-biden-state-of-the-union/index.html

“With all due respect, Mr. President. You didn’t mention saving Black lives once in this speech,” tweeted Missouri Democratic Rep. Cori Bush following Biden’s address. “All our country has done is given more funding to police. The result? 2021 set a record for fatal police shootings. Defund the police. Invest in our communities.”
Click to expand...
while relocating funds
Click to expand...
Thats what "defund the police" means. Spend the money more effectively.

That was from your link, quoting Ilhan Omar.
 
Phatguysrule said:
Thats what "defund the police" means. Spend the money more effectively.

That was from your link, quoting Ilhan Omar.
Click to expand...

The observation I was relating was simply POTUS', "Fund them (police), fund them, fund them." remark. Kind of an arbitrary, off-the-cuff chant. Was it irresponsible? Who knows?

To your point, though....

https://www.ksdk.com/article/news/p...louis/63-3edbe552-c19b-42c2-9d80-126df10b1c36

Biden's 'fund the police' line in State of the Union strikes nerve in St. Louis
The president's $5B safety plan increases training for police while also targeting illegal guns and strengthening programs for kids.

ST. LOUIS — A line about police funding during President Joe Biden's first State of the Union address struck a nerve in St. Louis, where local leaders have battled police union representatives over resources.

"We should all agree. The answer's not to defund the police, it's to fund the police," Biden said. "Fund them. Fund them. Fund them with resources and training, resources and training they need to protect their communities."

You know, I was very frustrated," Marquis Govan said.

Just hours after the president's speech, Govan was crossing St. Louis University Campus campaigning during student government elections.

Govan's been active in past political causes, armed Wednesday with a megaphone and statistics.

"Here in St. Louis last year, we saw a reduction in crime by some 26%. That was not due to police for the most part. That was due to programs like Cure Violence, civilians interrupting things before they even took place," he said.

Govan says the answer lies in reallocating police funds to different social programs, a move seconded by Rep. Cori Bush though she often uses the "defund" branding.

"I don't care if you call it 'defund,' 'reallocate,' 'move,' 'switch,' 'push,' or 'transfer' money. What we're saying is, we have to do something different to be able to save lives," the St. Louis democrat said.

Bush continued, "We don't need all of these militarized weapons in our communities. What we need is to put that money into social services. What we need is to expand 911."

But St. Louis Police Officers Association President Jay Schroeder, who has been advocating for more officers on the street, says they were pleasantly surprised by the president's statement.

"I was actually really really surprised when I heard that part. My phone started blowing up with people saying that the president has said 'fund the police, fund the police,'" Schroeder said.

Schroeder says the president chose to add the line to his address because he believes the "defund police" slogan is unpopular with voters, and the national Fraternal Order of Police has been advocating on their behalf.

"We have been talking about how we need more money for training, we need money for recruiting, and we lost 178 policemen in the city last year," Schroeder said.
 
ABM said:
Here's a similar take on the matter:

https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/02/politics/defund-the-police-biden-state-of-the-union/index.html

“With all due respect, Mr. President. You didn’t mention saving Black lives once in this speech,” tweeted Missouri Democratic Rep. Cori Bush following Biden’s address. “All our country has done is given more funding to police. The result? 2021 set a record for fatal police shootings. Defund the police. Invest in our communities.”
Click to expand...
Do you really think she is advocating for no more police, or rather smarter use of our tax dollars? When actual violent crimes are taking place, pretty much every American wants a police officer to show up... thats what they are trained & equipped to deal with after all. When you need to drive down a nail you want a hammer, but try building a house with only a hammer. Homelessness, addiction issues, marital spats, mental illness are a few of the many nuanced situations that they aren't trained to deal with but regularly do. Should we have untrained people with guns showing up to deal with every type of situation (a vast majority of which are not violent) or should we take a more nuanced approach in addressing non-violent aspects of managing our communities? A person with a weapon showing up to take charge of a situation they aren't trained to deal with can escalate the situation.

Labeling this train of thought as 'defund the police' is incredibly bad messaging as again, pretty much no one but career criminals are for getting rid of police departments. This bad messaging allows those predisposed to immediately turn a deaf ear to their cause without even considering whats being advocated. Believe it or not it's possible to both support the police and understand and support BLM type movements.

STOMP
 
Last edited:
crandc said:
Francis Collins is a genuine scientist, not a creationist. Until his recent retirement he was for many years director of National Institutes of Health. He is also an evangelical Christian. He wrote a book The Mind of God as an attempt to persuade science minded people of the reality of his god. I read it, as unlike others here I am not afraid to read things opposed to my world view. I was unimpressed. It's not that I expected him to persuade me, but I really expected something better than what I might see from an intelligent high school student, and was left with conclusion there are no arguments better than what an intelligent high school student can come up with. I prefer those who say they take it on faith. I don't agree with them but at least they are honest and don't try to pretend their religion has some scientific basis.

But when I went from "meh" to revulsion was when Collins described how his daughter was raped while she was a medical student by a man who broke into her apartment late at night. He was never caught. Collins eloquently describes her hysterical middle of the night phone call to her parents, her years of nightmares and flashbacks. Like many believers he asked how his god could allow something so horrible. Some answer by saying their god gave us free will to do good or evil, which I guess lets the god off the hook. Collins wanted something more concrete. His conclusion was that he, like all parents, wanted to protect his child and his daughter being raped was god's way of telling him he could not always do so. I mean what kind of vicious evil god arranges a woman to be raped to take down her father's pride? Also as a doctor she now has compassion for other rape victims, you know, all those other women his god arranged to be raped to teach their dads a lesson.

Like the old joke goes, thank god I'm an atheist.
Click to expand...

I'm not really a religious person, but I am open to the idea that both religion and science can be right and can coexist. One does not disprove the other.

The issue I have with religion is that it is abused and used to exert power and control and to disseminate false truths.
 
STOMP said:
Do do you really think she is advocating for no more police, or rather smarter use of our tax dollars? When actual violent crimes are taking place, pretty much every American wants a police officer to show up... thats what they are trained & equipped to deal with after all. When you need to drive down a nail you want a hammer, but try building a house with only a hammer. Homelessness, addiction issues, marital spats, mental illness are a few of the many nuanced situations that they aren't trained to deal with but regularly do. Should we have untrained people with guns showing up to deal with every type of situation (a vast majority of which are not violent) or should we take a more nuanced approach in addressing non-violent aspects of managing our communities? A person with a weapon showing up to take charge of a situation they aren't trained to deal with can escalate the situation.

Labeling this train of thought as 'defund the police' is incredibly bad messaging as again, pretty much no one but career criminals are for getting rid of police departments. This bad messaging allows those predisposed to immediately turn a deaf ear to their cause without even considering whats being advocated. Believe it or not it's possible to both support the police and understand and support BLM type movements.STOMP
Click to expand...

Re-read what I just said. My comments were steered towards Biden's SOTU remarks, followed by the moderate retaliations (and clarification) by some of those on the left. Simple as that.
 
crandc said:
So instead of reading her writing you read an article from a right wing newspaper attacking her.
If my only knowledge of Christianity came from brief articles in militant atheist journals you could rightly call me ignorant.
Click to expand...
I would use a gentler expression.
 
Promoting the Don't Say Gay bill, members of DeathSantis' staff say anyone who opposes it supports homosexuals recruiting children.
It's not about age appropriate information. Or parental control. It's about hating gay people.
 
The quack DeathSantis picked as surgeon general after he lied on his resume said today Florida is ignoring CDC guidelines and opposes Covid vaccines for children and teens between 5 and 17.
 
crandc said:
Promoting the Don't Say Gay bill, members of DeathSantis' staff say anyone who opposes it supports homosexuals recruiting children.
It's not about age appropriate information. Or parental control. It's about hating gay people.
Click to expand...
God Dammit, you can't recruit gay children. Either they are or aren't, and anyone who thinks different ain't too bright and is probably missing most of his/her teeth, damn it.
 
Of course you are correct, Lanny, but the longtime slander against gay men and lesbians had been we "recruit" children. Bigots don't believe people are really gay. They even say we can't reproduce, which is not true, so need to recruit. Even though almost all of us were raised by straight parents. Just bigotry and attempts to stir up prejudice and hate to scare people into voting for them.
 
crandc said:
Of course you are correct, Lanny, but the longtime slander against gay men and lesbians had been we "recruit" children. Bigots don't believe people are really gay. They even say we can't reproduce, which is not true, so need to recruit. Even though almost all of us were raised by straight parents. Just bigotry and attempts to stir up prejudice and hate to scare people into voting for them.
Click to expand...
Bullshit, bullshit, bullshit. I can't recall the last time I've heard bull shit like they're espousing.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top