WikiLeaks "Leaker" Bradley Manning- Gays in the Military gone awry?

[EL PRESIDENTE]

At least that is what the NY Times reporter is speculating. He was teased in the army for being gay and perhaps he leaked this information as some sort of revenge.

[video=youtube;OwgdRqexu0U]

via the NY Times:

Before throwing to soundbites from Thompson, Miklaszewski teased that the New York Times reporter "profiled Manning and found that as a young man he was an outcast who tried desperately to fit in." Thompson then went on to reveal that Manning "was teased all the time in elementary school for being a geek" and was beaten up in high school for "because kids figured out that he was gay." After Miklaszewski added that the abuse continued when he joined the Army, noting "once in the military, he quickly became a target," he aired another clip of Thompson claiming "As a gay man in the military, he was, you know, he was outcast and he was, you know, teased and harasse

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/09/us/09manning.html?pagewanted=1&_r=2

Then he joined the Army, where, friends said, his social life was defined by the need to conceal his sexuality under “don’t ask, don’t tell” and he wasted brainpower fetching coffee for officers.

But it was around two years ago, when Pfc. Bradley Manning came here to visit a man he had fallen in love with, that he finally seemed to have found a place where he fit in, part of a social circle that included politically motivated computer hackers and his boyfriend, a self-described drag queen. So when his military career seemed headed nowhere good, Private Manning, 22, turned increasingly to those friends for moral support.

And now some of those friends say they wonder whether his desperation for acceptance — or delusions of grandeur — may have led him to disclose the largest trove of government secrets since the Pentagon Papers.

 

[Haakzilla]

...let the smear campaigns begin!

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

more for Julian Assage and this likely fabricated "rape charge" for which Interpol just issued a "warrant" for his arrest for and put him on their top 10 most wanted....

 

[Haakzilla]

more for Julian Assage and this likely fabricated "rape charge" for which Interpol just issued a "warrant" for his arrest for and put him on their top 10 most wanted....

...it is a freakin' fiasco!

 

[Paxil]

...let the smear campaigns begin!

Smear? The largest leak of classified material in the history of the US speaks for itself. Trying to explain his behavior isn't a smear... though it does bring back some childhood memories of running around with a football playing in the front yard.

I worked with classified material when I was in the military, and I can't fathom what he did. I remember someone disappearing just because he didn't have a witness that he destroyed certain material... let alone a malicious act.

If they don't execute him he will have a nice long life in miliary prison... which from what I have heard from people that had personal experience with it... is not an enjoyable existance at all.

 

[Haakzilla]

Smear? The largest leak of classified material in the history of the US speaks for itself. Trying to explain his behavior isn't a smear... though it does bring back some childhood memories of running around with a football playing in the front yard.

I worked with classified material when I was in the military, and I can't fathom what he did. I remember someone disappearing just because he didn't have a witness that he destroyed certain material... let alone a malicious act.

If they don't execute him he will have a nice long life in miliary prison... which from what I have heard from people that had personal experience with it... is not an enjoyable existance at all.

...I was referring to Mr. Assage/WikiLeaks, not your fellow American military comrade. However, it continues amaze me that the focus of these leaks is not on the information presented but rather who leaked them.

 

[agoo]

...I was referring to Mr. Assage/WikiLeaks, not your fellow American military comrade. However, it continues amaze me that the focus of these leaks is not on the information presented but rather who leaked them.

Sifting through 250,000 documents looking for sellable info is hard, where as blindly speculating on who leaked this info and what should be done to Assage is easy.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

What should be done with assage?

x

 

[Denny Crane]

Of course all those things are more than just interesting, but...

There's more to this that isn't being written about (much).

Like, it sure looks as if someone in the State Dept. has access to all these documents and has repeatedly (is this the third dump of documents?) been able to transfer them to WikiLeaks. This alone raises some interesting questions, such as:
1) Is our govt. so feeble that it can't figure out how to set up a firewall to prevent someone from sending out so many megabytes (gigabytes) of files?
2) There's always sneakernet. Is our govt. so feeble (especially after the first leaks) that it can't keep its own workers from smuggling in and out USB drives? Heck, I don't think I'd let workers in or out of the buildings carrying a laptop.
3) What is the motivation for the leaks?
3a) Is it on Obama's orders?
3b) Is it a plot by Hillary to make Obama look bad?
3c) Is it an outright revolt by some in the Intelligence community against what Obama and Hillary are trying to do? (and what?)
4) Are those responsible for the leak...
4a) Right wing, trying to hurt the administration
4b) Left wing, terribly upset with the wars and Obama's seeming lack of inaction toward their (his promised) agenda?
5) Could it be that it's just some gay person upset about DADT (e.g. upset about something unrelated to foreign policy)?

I'm thinking 3a. This wouldn't be the first way of making the USA far less of a superpower.

Wow.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

when was that from?

Wouldn't that just weaken the case for gays in the military? Apparently, if the above scenario was true, Manning was harassed for being homosexual and couldn't take it so he committed treasonous acts as retribution with the help of his gay lover who was part of the hacker community in their college.

 

[Denny Crane]

when was that from?

Wouldn't that just weaken the case for gays in the military? Apparently, if the above scenario was true, Manning was harassed for being homosexual and couldn't take it so he committed treasonous acts as retribution with the help of his gay lover who was part of the hacker community in their college.

I posted that two days ago in the top 10 things we learned from wikileaks thread...

I suggested the gay guy against DADT as an example of something that might make some govt. worker go postal. Seems prescient or something. I hadn't heard there was anyone suspected of leaking the documents to the www site.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

It could be DADT or it could be the harassment from other troops for him being gay which causes some kind of vindictive behavior against his country, which is the argument against having Gays in the Military. Its a fine line with this case, the government has to prosecute him, but if it was found that he was harassed as a gay man by his fellow soldiers, it kind of legitimizes DADT as a policy of security.

 

[Denny Crane]

It could be DADT or it could be the harassment from other troops for him being gay which causes some kind of vindictive behavior against his country, which is the argument against having Gays in the Military. Its a fine line with this case, the government has to prosecute him, but if it was found that he was harassed as a gay man by his fellow soldiers, it kind of legitimizes DADT as a policy of security.

How does a PFC have access to all this top secret material? I have a hard time believing he's the guy.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

Hax0r skillz he learned from his boyfriend and their little "community" of computer freaks!

 

[Paxil]

Sifting through 250,000 documents looking for sellable info is hard, where as blindly speculating on who leaked this info and what should be done to Assage is easy.

I have no desire to sift through anything stolen and potentially illegal. I am a bit surprised that media outlets printed it.

 

[agoo]

It could be DADT or it could be the harassment from other troops for him being gay which causes some kind of vindictive behavior against his country, which is the argument against having Gays in the Military. Its a fine line with this case, the government has to prosecute him, but if it was found that he was harassed as a gay man by his fellow soldiers, it kind of legitimizes DADT as a policy of security.

A gay guy leaking top secret info because of a ridiculous policy legitimizes the ridiculous policy? Was it his homosexuality that caused him to flip or a policy that says he can serve his country, but only if he completely denies the existence of a part of his life that caused him to flip?

For the record, anger over DADT doesn't justify any of these actions, but these actions aren't a case for DADT.

 

[agoo]

I have no desire to sift through anything stolen and potentially illegal. I am a bit surprised that media outlets printed it.

I'm not. Its sensationalism like no other. If you weren't running it and your competitor was, you lose.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

A gay guy leaking top secret info because of a ridiculous policy legitimizes the ridiculous policy? Was it his homosexuality that caused him to flip or a policy that says he can serve his country, but only if he completely denies the existence of a part of his life that caused him to flip?

The policy isn't ridiculous if his open sexuality caused him to be outcast and shunned by the other soldiers and superiors to the point where he felt the need to exact revenge. It legitimizes the claim that openly gay soldiers serving in the military may have a psychological effect on morale.

 

[MARIS61]

I've spent hours reading these leaks and found nothing at all resembling anything that that could justifiably be rated top secret or even classified. It's mostly old news that anyone could have assumed, and nothing that endangers our national security.

The only serious threat to The United States of America is the Department of Homeland Security, and the tycoons who direct it's moves.

 

[MARIS61]

Whomever leaked this stuff is a hero to Americans everywhere, and has done more to defend our Freedom through this one act than all the soldiers shooting strangers in the Middle East combined.

Everything I've read of it so far is stuff we all should be aware of. We should know when a country has nukes, when another leader is thought to be irrational or dangerousely insane, when our elected leaders act like 4 year olds in private and mock or badmouth other leaders behind their backs, when our country bribes other countries to support us...

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

the government should have accountability!

 

[Jayps15]

The policy isn't ridiculous if his open sexuality caused him to be outcast and shunned by the other soldiers and superiors to the point where he felt the need to exact revenge. It legitimizes the claim that openly gay soldiers serving in the military may have a psychological effect on morale.

Huh? Where does it say he was openly gay in his military life? Actually straight from the quote you put in the OP it says "Then he joined the Army, where, friends said, his social life was defined by the need to conceal his sexuality under “don’t ask, don’t tell” " . So it's more likely that he was suspected of being gay and was teased and shunned because of it, and that because of DADT he couldn't go to his superiors or anyone in the military for help. It doesn't "legitimizes the claim that openly gay soldiers serving in the military may have a psychological effect on morale.", more like legitimizing the claim that telling soldiers to keep part of their life a secret no matter what sort of abuse they might endure because of it can have a negative effect.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

Huh? Where does it say he was openly gay in his military life? Actually straight from the quote you put in the OP it says "Then he joined the Army, where, friends said, his social life was defined by the need to conceal his sexuality under “don’t ask, don’t tell” " . So it's more likely that he was suspected of being gay and was teased and shunned because of it, and that because of DADT he couldn't go to his superiors or anyone in the military for help. It doesn't "legitimizes the claim that openly gay soldiers serving in the military may have a psychological effect on morale.", more like legitimizing the claim that telling soldiers to keep part of their life a secret no matter what sort of abuse they might endure because of it can have a negative effect.

The article implies that his fellow soldiers were aware of his sexual orientation and shunned him because of it (which of course is wrong). however, it shows that there may be some discomfort and uneasiness in real life situations of homosexuals being "outed" or "tolerated" in the army. An "old boys" type of network if you will.

If it were truly "Don't Ask Don't Tell", the soldiers would not have singled him out. Perhaps he had some flamboyant characteristics that many of the other soldiers picked up on, but it still kind of suggests that a soldier's psyche was modified due to even the insinuation that he was gay.

It makes one wonder if there were a higher number of openly gay persons in the army, if this kind of harassment and subsequent incidents would continue. At a minimum, it will change the dynamics for better or worse.

 

[BrianFromWA]

I thought I'd have to wait longer for this.

"Oh, I understand why you had to commit a crime that carries the death penalty--you were forced into the consoling arms of 'politically motivated hackers' and your drag queen boyfriend by people who teased you".

 

[Paxil]

I'm not. Its sensationalism like no other. If you weren't running it and your competitor was, you lose.

I think you are right... but that doesn't make them right. I am sure they are saying that since it is publically accessible, it is OK for them to do it, but I don't agree with that, and they are no better than WikiLeaks if they are doing it. If they know the information is classified and was obtained illegally... I think it would be hands off. Reminds me of people scooping up money from a bank truck crash thinking it is theirs just because it is spilled and flying around in public.

 

[Paxil]

Whomever leaked this stuff is a hero to Americans everywhere

Very much disagree with you here. Everything in there it seems to me we did know... not the details of how we obtained the information, but it didn't seem very different than the what we saw publically. Do you really expect the White House to give briefings on foreign officials partying habits routinely?

 

[BrianFromWA]

I'm not surprised that you think that committing treason and getting sources killed for providing information is a heroic act.

 

[agoo]

The policy isn't ridiculous if his open sexuality caused him to be outcast and shunned by the other soldiers and superiors to the point where he felt the need to exact revenge. It legitimizes the claim that openly gay soldiers serving in the military may have a psychological effect on morale.

The policy is basically that you have to completely deny, lie about, and cover up a part of your life in order to keep your job. You can be openly heterosexual in the military, but if you're gay, you need to fake it. If the policy wasn't in place, the guy could report the harassment without the fear of losing his job through outing himself.

This only legitimizes the claim that assholes who are going to hold this ridiculous policy over a homosexual serviceman are indeed assholes who have a negative effect on morale, etc, etc, etc.

This one case wouldn't invalidate the study where the overwhelming majority of servicemen and women polled wouldn't care one way or the other.

I thought I'd have to wait longer for this.

"Oh, I understand why you had to commit a crime that carries the death penalty--you were forced into the consoling arms of 'politically motivated hackers' and your drag queen boyfriend by people who teased you".

I don't think anyone is saying that the harassment justifies the act, but as a probable cause of the anger, its a viable suggestion. Also, drag queen boyfriend? I mean...really? There's a line somewhere between ignorant and being a prick.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

The policy is basically that you have to completely deny, lie about, and cover up a part of your life in order to keep your job. You can be openly heterosexual in the military, but if you're gay, you need to fake it. If the policy wasn't in place, the guy could report the harassment without the fear of losing his job through outing himself.

This only legitimizes the claim that assholes who are going to hold this ridiculous policy over a homosexual serviceman are indeed assholes who have a negative effect on morale, etc, etc, etc.

This one case wouldn't invalidate the study where the overwhelming majority of servicemen and women polled wouldn't care one way or the other.

The guy could report harassment even without a sexual aspect to it. However, he choose to commit treasonous acts. And if what was speculated was true, it does invalidate the study because in real life situations (versus a hypothetical poll), there was great damage to the United States and shows that perhaps the military cannot handle homosexuals amongst them.

 

[agoo]

The guy could report harassment even without a sexual aspect to it. However, he choose to commit treasonous acts. And if what was speculated was true, it does invalidate the study because in real life situations (versus a hypothetical poll), there was great damage to the United States and shows that perhaps the military cannot handle homosexuals amongst them.

And how would you provide evidence of harassment without stating what the harassment is?

And it really would take more than one incident to invalidate a survey where over 70% of 400,000 servicepeople said they'd be fine with it...in addition to the 100+ retired Generals and Admirals who have apparently called for its end.