Will Blazers try to get Bosh?

[Mediocre Man]

Agreed. Poor Lamarcus. When will he ever get his chance....

I didn't mean it that way, and it's not really a slam on Nate either. Our offense is designed around Brandon Roy, and Toronto's offense is designed around Bosh. Bosh gets up over 2 shots more per game than Aldridge, and while that doesn't sound like a lot, it is. Bosh actually shoots more than Brandon Roy does....16.5/16.2. I think what would happen is that here, Bosh would put up the same numbers Aldridge did. If not, I think Brandon would have a problem.

Bosh's usage is 25.7, compared to Aldridge's 20.7. Roy's is 25.9, so again. I am not sure the numbers would look all that different given our current system.

 

[OddEnormous]

I didn't mean it that way, and it's not really a slam on Nate either. Our offense is designed around Brandon Roy, and Toronto's offense is designed around Bosh. Bosh gets up over 2 shots more per game than Aldridge, and while that doesn't sound like a lot, it is. Bosh actually shoots more than Brandon Roy does....16.5/16.2. I think what would happen is that here, Bosh would put up the same numbers Aldridge did. If not, I think Brandon would have a problem.

Bosh's usage is 25.7, compared to Aldridge's 20.7. Roy's is 25.9, so again. I am not sure the numbers would look all that different given our current system.

Fair enough...

But I still don't agree that Bosh wouldn't be a MASSIVE upgrade over LMA.

Bosh is the player we all want LMA to be.

 

[e_blazer]

One other thought on this hypothetical deal is that the Blazers could also avoid having Bosh end up on the roster of a Western Conference competitor like the Thunder or Kings by doing a sign-and-trade with the Raptors.

 

[Mediocre Man]

Fair enough...

But I still don't agree that Bosh wouldn't be a MASSIVE upgrade over LMA.

Bosh is the player we all want LMA to be.

I agree that we all want LaMarcus to be like Bosh, but I just think if Bosh came here we would all want the Bosh from Toronto, and wonder what happened to him. .

 

[Minstrel]

Bosh's usage is 25.7, compared to Aldridge's 20.7. Roy's is 25.9, so again. I am not sure the numbers would look all that different given our current system.

While looking at usage is interesting, you have to figure out which was causality is going...are Bosh's numbers better because he gets to use more possessions, or does he get to use more possessions because he does more with them?

From watching both players, I definitely think it is the second. I don't think you could just give Aldridge 5% more possessions to "use" and suddenly he's Chris Bosh. The vast majority of players in the league end up with the usage rate that optimizes their abilities...if they got less, they'd be wasting ability and if they got more, they'd be hurting their team by taking possessions away from better options. I don't think Aldridge or the team would be benefited by giving him a 25+% usage rate, at least not in this offense. In an offense that maximized his speed and athleticism, maybe.

So I think Bosh would have a higher usage rate than Aldridge even in Portland, and he'd produce more.

 

[Mediocre Man]

One other thought on this hypothetical deal is that the Blazers could also avoid having Bosh end up on the roster of a Western Conference competitor like the Thunder or Kings by doing a sign-and-trade with the Raptors.

Can an UFA be signed and traded?

For some reason I thought the only way to get someone like Bosh was to have him re-sign with Toronto and then trade for him in December?

 

[Draco]

We would be giving the Raptors our second best player for the ability to pay Bosh a $120+ million contract. In 6 years when Bosh is making $25+ million a season will he still be good value? Bosh is a great big man but I think he is closer in value to Amare Stoudamire or Carlos Boozer than he is to Wade or Lebron. That huge contract will reduce the teams ability to gather talent in future off-seasons.

I would be hesitant to include Rudy. I think Rudy can play ~30 mpg for this team alongside Roy and Batum. If we lose Rudy then we have Roy and not much else at the guard spots. Miller is going to be declining every year, and Bayless has been the worst rotational player on the team.

I'd love to get Bosh and would jump at trading Oden or Aldridge for him. I would keep Batum/Rudy and obviously Roy but anyone else could be thrown in. At a point you have to be willing to walk away, if it mean's no deal gets done then no deal gets done. But I would rather role the dice on having a great deal or no deal then just settling for a mediocre deal.

 

[Draco]

Can an UFA be signed and traded?

Yes that is what a sign and trade is.

Hedo was sign and traded from the Magic to the Raptors.

For some reason I thought the only way to get someone like Bosh was to have him re-sign with Toronto and then trade for him in December?

Perhaps you are thinking of a new team signing and trading Bosh (ie the Heat). That is not possible and the earliest a new team could trade him after signing him in the off-season would be to trade him during December. But his old team (Raptors) can sign and trade in July.

 

[e_blazer]

Can an UFA be signed and traded?

For some reason I thought the only way to get someone like Bosh was to have him re-sign with Toronto and then trade for him in December?

Sure. That's what a sign-and-trade is for.

 

[OddEnormous]

I just think if Bosh came here we would all want the Bosh from Toronto, and wonder what happened to him. .

Disagree.

But, such is life.

 

[Pinwheel1]

I agree that we all want LaMarcus to be like Bosh, but I just think if Bosh came here we would all want the Bosh from Toronto, and wonder what happened to him. .

Yeah we all want the Bosh from Toronto, the Calderon from Toronto, the Jared Jack from Toronto, but we don't want the win/loss record from Toronto.

How do the Blazers ever win a game. No point guard until recently, no SF until two weeks ago, a soft Power Forward, No scoring from the center positon, an all start who goes 1 on 5, a bench until just recently was led by Outlaw who was a black hole, no back up PG's, a coach who is an ass clown, and a GM who can't make a trade unless he throws in 3 million dollars to sweeten the pot.

Thank god it's St. Patty's day. I need a drink right now.

 

[e_blazer]

I would be hesitant to include Rudy. I think Rudy can play ~30 mpg for this team alongside Roy and Batum. If we lose Rudy then we have Roy and not much else at the guard spots. Miller is going to be declining every year, and Bayless has been the worst rotational player on the team.

I'd love to get Bosh and would jump at trading Oden or Aldridge for him. I would keep Batum/Rudy and obviously Roy but anyone else could be thrown in. At a point you have to be willing to walk away, if it mean's no deal gets done then no deal gets done. But I would rather role the dice on having a great deal or no deal then just settling for a mediocre deal.

Maybe Martell and picks could replace Rudy, but then the Raptors would have to send back a small contract player to make the numbers work.

 

[Minstrel]

We would be giving the Raptors our second best player for the ability to pay Bosh a $120+ million contract. In 6 years when Bosh is making $25+ million a season will he still be good value? Bosh is a great big man but I think he is closer in value to Amare Stoudamire or Carlos Boozer than he is to Wade or Lebron. That huge contract will reduce the teams ability to gather talent in future off-seasons.

How will Bosh's contract reduce the team's ability to gather talent in future off-seasons? You mean that Allen will be less inclined to add payroll?

I don't think Bosh will be a "good value" (as in, paid less than he's worth). But for a basketball team, as dominated as it is by its best two or three players, it's about maximizing that top-end talent, not about getting the best value for money. In baseball, with so many players and no one who can play enough to propel a team, value for money is much more important. I'd like Portland to try to find good values for its supporting/bench players, but spare no expense to upgrade its top-end talent.

I would be hesitant to include Rudy. I think Rudy can play ~30 mpg for this team alongside Roy and Batum. If we lose Rudy then we have Roy and not much else at the guard spots. Miller is going to be declining every year, and Bayless has been the worst rotational player on the team.

How is Bayless the worst rotational player on the team while Rudy gives the team "much else" beyond Roy? Bayless actually has the higher PER and neither's defense is anything to write home about. Of the two, I think Bayless actually stands a chance of being a solid defender in the future.

Rudy has become oddly overrated on this forum, perhaps due to his Olympic performance. He has little upside left, at his age, and he hasn't been that great. Slightly above average last year, slightly below average this year.

 

[OddEnormous]

How do the Blazers ever win a game. No point guard until recently, no SF until two weeks ago, a soft Power Forward, No scoring from the center positon, an all start who goes 1 on 5, a bench until just recently was led by Outlaw who was a black hole, no back up PG's, a coach who is an ass clown, and a GM who can't make a trade unless he throws in 3 million dollars to sweeten the pot.

Exactly. No thanks Chris Bosh. We're going to finish 8th!

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Bosh gets up over 2 shots more per game than Aldridge, and while that doesn't sound like a lot, it is. Bosh actually shoots more than Brandon Roy does....16.5/16.2. I think what would happen is that here, Bosh would put up the same numbers Aldridge did. If not, I think Brandon would have a problem.

Bosh's usage is 25.7, compared to Aldridge's 20.7. Roy's is 25.9, so again. I am not sure the numbers would look all that different given our current system.

Why does it have to be an either/or proposition? Why couldn't Bosh come here and take the 14 shots vacated by Aldridge's departure and a few shots from some other player (Miller? Rudy's void?) rather than from Roy? Kobe and Pau's usage %s presently sum to 53.2. Duncan & Parker--51.4. Vince & Howard--49.5. Lebron & Mo--56. Why couldn't Bosh and Roy co-exist with usage %'s at about 26 each?

 

[PtldPlatypus]

I don't think Bosh will be a "good value" (as in, paid less than he's worth). But for a basketball team, as dominated as it is by its best two or three players, it's about maximizing that top-end talent, not about getting the best value for money. In baseball, with so many players and no one who can play enough to propel a team, value for money is much more important. I'd like Portland to try to find good values for its supporting/bench players, but spare no expense to upgrade its top-end talent.

Agreed. As KP has said, depth wins in the regular season, but stars win in the playoffs. If we want to be title contenders without a transcendant talent like Kobe or Lebron, we need another all-star. If LA isn't going to be that guy, then we should try to use him to get a player who will be.

 

[mook]

Why does it have to be an either/or proposition? Why couldn't Bosh come here and take the 14 shots vacated by Aldridge's departure and a few shots from some other player (Miller? Rudy's void?) rather than from Roy? Kobe and Pau's usage %s presently sum to 53.2. Duncan & Parker--51.4. Vince & Howard--49.5. Lebron & Mo--56. Why couldn't Bosh and Roy co-exist with usage %'s at about 26 each?

Valid point, although I'd also take into consideration Oden and whether he isn't a better eventual #2 option. Andrew Bynum is kind of a third wheel with the Lakers, whereas he seemed more dominant when Pau was out.

But even there it's hard to argue that the Lakers haven't been able to make it work. The trio of Roy/Bosh/Oden sounds an awful lot like a younger version of Kobe/Pau/Bynum.

 

[Draco]

How will Bosh's contract reduce the team's ability to gather talent in future off-seasons? You mean that Allen will be less inclined to add payroll?

Yes I believe having an extra 60 million in payroll could reduce the amount Allen is willing to spend. Suppose there is a potential addition for a player that would provide legitimate help but it is a borderline value. As a fan I want to see additions of that type since it is an increase in the team's talent. But Allen may decide the cost is not worth the value of the addition since he'll be paying 2x the contract with a dollar for dollar tax.

Also, we don't know what the CBA will look like in 2 years, perhaps there is more of a hard cap and the additional payroll from a Bosh contract severely limits the team's roster flexibility. I'm not saying I wouldn't give Bosh the contract, only that paying out a large max contract has the potential possibility of limiting the team's option's in future off-season's. Paying out for that large contract has downside. It has happened over and over from Jermaine Oneal, Elton Brand, Tracy McGrady, etc etc where borderline max players get a long term contract and severely hurt the team's payroll flexability in the final years of their deals.

But we are not talking about just giving Bosh a huge max contract. We are also talking about throwing in our second best player then additionally throwing in more valuable assets.

How is Bayless the worst rotational player on the team while Rudy gives the team "much else" beyond Roy? Bayless actually has the higher PER and neither's defense is anything to write home about. Of the two, I think Bayless actually stands a chance of being a solid defender in the future.

Rudy has become oddly overrated on this forum, perhaps due to his Olympic performance. He has little upside left, at his age, and he hasn't been that great. Slightly above average last year, slightly below average this year.

Agree to disagree. I don't see anything in Bayless' game to make me believe he can be a high IQ team player on an efficient offense. He lowers his head and runs through the defense toward the basket getting a foul on him or them. His jumper is atrocious. Similar to Outlaw, I believe Bayless has value as a reserve on a team that needs somebody to take shots, but if he is asked to be the 4th or 5th option on a team with Batum and Oden scoring along with Roy and Aldridge (or Bosh ) he would not co-exist effectively.

I believe Rudy is clearly our best guard after Brandon and Miller but if you disagree then I understand easily throwing him into a Bosh trade.

 

[mook]

I don't think Jermaine O'Neal, Elton Brand nor Tracy McGrady were borderline max players when they signed their deals. They were legit max players. McGrady at the time was maybe the best swingman in the game after Kobe.

Had each of them not had career-altering injuries, they'd still be considered max players today.

Bosh is a 25 year old power forward Olympian averaging 24/11, with a PER of 25.5, with decent (albeit not outstanding) defense (although his defense intensity was much better on the Olympic team). That's a max contract player.

Now, if he sustains a career altering injury like McGrady/O'Neal/Brand, then it may become a bad contract. Just like Roy's contract could become a real albatross if he gets injured. But those are the risks you have to take when you get the chance at a franchise-caliber player.

 

[EGame]

Bosh just hit the game winner for Toronto against Atlanta tonight. I could use two clutch guys.

 

[MickZagger]

I'd say Bosh backed up his talk tonight.