OT Will Portland Become A War Zone This Weekend?

[CupWizier]

All you need to know about Andy Ngo

https://www.jacobinmag.com/2019/08/andy-ngo-right-wing-antifa-protest-portland-bigotry

he is an instigator and not one that reports things accurately.

 

[Lanny]

All you need to know about Andy Ngo

https://www.jacobinmag.com/2019/08/andy-ngo-right-wing-antifa-protest-portland-bigotry

he is an instigator and not one that reports things accurately.

I thought everyone knew he's no journalist.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

It's both-sidesism, excusing Trump because other people might be racist. Well, they might be, but they aren't president and they aren't overtly, publicly racist, other than Steve King.



Again, history isn't the issue here. Your claim was about the present, that there are multiple other people in Washington just as racist as Trump:



I'm not seeing you supporting that charge.



My point is that your point was inaccurate, and a way of excusing Trump's behavior.



I don't want you to pretend. I want you to support your claim. You claim there are other racists in Washinton, tied to the KKK, who have said things worse than Trump.

You should be able to provide examples, if that is true. So far you haven't.

barfo

Tom Cotton - Supported by KKK leaders, says Racist stuff all the time.
Ralph Northam - Literally wearing Blackface...
Angus King - that ones not hard to find.
Don Beyer Jr, literally said not to be too hard on his State AG for wearing Blackface because a republican was next in line.

I could find more.

The problem is I am totally opposed to your point that saying there are other Racists is some how excusing Trumps behaviors.

Its not excusing anything, and my original point had nothing to do with both-sideism it was that I think many people, and the media have found their scape-goat in Trump. Everyone’s got a name to attach racism too. It has nothing to do with excusing his behavior and I think you trying to read that into it is a pretty weak tactic. Im not falling for it. Ive said plenty of times how I feel about Trump.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

I thought everyone knew he's no journalist.

I think his entire thing is to go instigate stuff than play it like he’s a victim, or in other cases like his “buddies”, are.

 

[barfo]

Tom Cotton - Supported by KKK leaders, says Racist stuff all the time.

Ok, that's a good one. Cotton is a shithead.

Ralph Northam - Literally wearing Blackface...

Yes. Although not in Washington. And probably not actually all that much driven by hate so much as cluelessness.

Angus King - that ones not hard to find.

Really? What has Angus King said or done that is racist?

Don Beyer Jr, literally said not to be too hard on his State AG for wearing Blackface because a republican was next in line.

Ok... that isn't exactly racism, but it is putting party over state, so I'll accept it.

I could find more.

That was a pretty weak list, so you'd have to if you wanted to defend your original point.

The problem is I am totally opposed to your point that saying there are other Racists is some how excusing Trumps behaviors.

Ok, I accept that you didn't intend it that way.

Its not excusing anything, and my original point had nothing to do with both-sideism it was that I think many people, and the media have found their scape-goat in Trump.

Why shouldn't they?

Everyone’s got a name to attach racism too. It has nothing to do with excusing his behavior and I think you trying to read that into it is a pretty weak tactic. Im not falling for it. Ive said plenty of times how I feel about Trump.

Agreed, so it was odd to hear you say that you think everyone else is just as bad - or worse - than Trump.

"Jeffery Epstein is a horrible pedophile, but everyone in New York is a horrible pedophile". The implication of that is that Epstein is kinda normal. And he isn't.

And if you say Trump is a horrible racist but so is everyone else in Washington, then you are implying that Trump is kinda normal. And he isn't.

barfo

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

Ok, that's a good one. Cotton is a shithead.



Yes. Although not in Washington. And probably not actually all that much driven by hate so much as cluelessness.



Really? What has Angus King said or done that is racist?



Ok... that isn't exactly racism, but it is putting party over state, so I'll accept it.



That was a pretty weak list, so you'd have to if you wanted to defend your original point.



Ok, I accept that you didn't intend it that way.



Why shouldn't they?



Agreed, so it was odd to hear you say that you think everyone else is just as bad - or worse - than Trump.

"Jeffery Epstein is a horrible pedophile, but everyone in New York is a horrible pedophile". The implication of that is that Epstein is kinda normal. And he isn't.

And if you say Trump is a horrible racist but so is everyone else in Washington, then you are implying that Trump is kinda normal. And he isn't.

barfo

I literally have one bar of reception, it takes forever to try to load things. I stopped at 4 because it had been about an hour and this “argument” doesn't seem worth it.

I wouldn't say Trump is “normal”, in racism though I suppose I can see why you would interpret what Im saying that way.

I guess where were differing is what my original point was, which the point I was trying to make was that Racism is rampant in this country and always has been, but Trump (mostly due to the fact he says and does racist stuff all the time), has taken the crown for every racist act, or group is now attributed to him. It seems like every time some racist does something, its well if Trump wasnt president it wouldnt have happened. Or every time Trump says or does something people turn it into racism. I guess I find that sometimes it seems like a stretch. Obviously, his words and actions are racist, and dumb and divisive.

Also like I said in my Edit before this conversation, saying he’s worse than others was an inaccurate way to phrase that.

 

[barfo]

It seems like every time some racist does something, its well if Trump wasnt president it wouldnt have happened. Or every time Trump says or does something people turn it into racism. I guess I find that sometimes it seems like a stretch.

"The buck stops here".

He's the leader of the free world, and he promotes and encourages racism.

He is responsible now for racism, even if it existed long before he arrived, even if there are other racists, even if he doesn't actually condone every act of racism by others.

"With great power comes great responsibility".

He may not want to accept responsibility, but it's his nonetheless.

barfo

 

[Lanny]

Tom Cotton - Supported by KKK leaders, says Racist stuff all the time.
Ralph Northam - Literally wearing Blackface...
Angus King - that ones not hard to find.
Don Beyer Jr, literally said not to be too hard on his State AG for wearing Blackface because a republican was next in line.

I could find more.

The problem is I am totally opposed to your point that saying there are other Racists is some how excusing Trumps behaviors.

Its not excusing anything, and my original point had nothing to do with both-sideism it was that I think many people, and the media have found their scape-goat in Trump. Everyone’s got a name to attach racism too. It has nothing to do with excusing his behavior and I think you trying to read that into it is a pretty weak tactic. Im not falling for it. Ive said plenty of times how I feel about Trump.

I'm confused by your definition of scape-goat. If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck and looks like a duck it ain't a duck?

 

[PDXFonz]

The Lost Boys Vs The Toys’r’Us kids

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

"The buck stops here".

He's the leader of the free world, and he promotes and encourages racism.

He is responsible now for racism, even if it existed long before he arrived, even if there are other racists, even if he doesn't actually condone every act of racism by others.

"With great power comes great responsibility".

He may not want to accept responsibility, but it's his nonetheless.

barfo

I dont really agree. To some extent I see the logic, but I dont really meet you all the way.

The people, are responsible for their own actions, whether emboldened by Trump or not. Also were in a country that doesnt give all power to a president, that would be closer to facism. Were actually in a country you can openly mock the leader, question the leader, etc, etc.

Attributing all responsibility for a country on an elected official, when more than half the voters actually voted for someone else and openly defies him doesnt make sense to me.

Again this isnt a defense of Trump, he’s responsible for his own Racism, bigotry, etc. While I will acknowledge his role in the divisiveness in country, I dont really put all the responsibility on him. Just like I didnt think it was Obama’s responsibility, or Bush’.

 

[barfo]

I dont really agree. To some extent I see the logic, but I dont really meet you all the way.

Ok. I'll take a fraction of the way. I'm easy.

The people, are responsible for their own actions, whether emboldened by Trump or not.

Attributing all responsibility for a country on an elected official, when more than half the voters actually voted for someone else and openly defies him doesnt make sense to me.

Again this isnt a defense of Trump, he’s responsible for his own Racism, bigotry, etc. While I will acknowledge his role in the divisiveness in country, I dont really put all the responsibility on him. Just like I didnt think it was Obama’s responsibility, or Bush’.

I don't think I was suggesting removing responsibility from other individuals. Trump has responsibility, but not sole responsibility.

barfo

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

I'm confused by your definition of scape-goat. If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck and looks like a duck it ain't a duck?

Its not about if Trump is a racist or not, he is. I guess, Im just not completely on board when an extremist does something, extreme, that its “Trumps” fault. So I guess what I mean by scapegoat is when some racist shoots up a walmart it becomes, “Trump!”, Trump is a symptom to me of a failed culture. Trump doesnt become president if racism isnt strong here.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

Ok. I'll take a fraction of the way. I'm easy.



I don't think I was suggesting removing responsibility from other individuals. Trump has responsibility, but not sole responsibility.

barfo

Fair enough.

 

[Lanny]

Its not about if Trump is a racist or not, he is. I guess, Im just not completely on board when an extremist does something, extreme, that its “Trumps” fault. So I guess what I mean by scapegoat is when some racist shoots up a walmart it becomes, “Trump!”, Trump is a symptom to me of a failed culture. Trump doesnt become president if racism isnt strong here.

How about when the shooter quotes Trump? How about the statistics on increased violence with the inauguration of Trump? Why have mass shootings risen dramatically under Trump? Is there a connection between the dramatic rise in domestic terrorism and Trump?

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

How about when the shooter quotes Trump? How about the statistics on increased violence with the inauguration of Trump? Why have mass shootings risen dramatically under Trump? Is there a connection between the dramatic rise in domestic terrorism and Trump?

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/01/03/5-facts-about-crime-in-the-u-s/

https://www.vox.com/2018/9/20/17882172/murder-crime-us-2018

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2018/11/13/us/hate-crimes-fbi-2017.amp.html


The stats show that the rise in hate crimes started two years before Trump was elected. While Im certain Trump’s rhetoric and propaganda has played a part in it, it started before him as the president.

I personally think the combative, divisive rhetoric had taken a turn towards the extremes about 15-20 years ago and was coming to a head in 2016, thats why we saw Trump and Hillary leading the charge in 2016, thats why we see the hate crimes we see now.

While Trumps election was a symptom of the sickness in this country, he isnt the cause of it. Is he responsible, at least in part? Sure I guess.

Its my opinion what were seeing is a generation who has seen nothing but division, theres many “kids” who believe that the enemy is “nextdoor” and it is either kill or be killed.

 

[calvin natt]

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/01/03/5-facts-about-crime-in-the-u-s/

https://www.vox.com/2018/9/20/17882172/murder-crime-us-2018

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2018/11/13/us/hate-crimes-fbi-2017.amp.html


The stats show that the rise in hate crimes started two years before Trump was elected. While Im certain Trump’s rhetoric and propaganda has played a part in it, it started before him as the president.

I personally think the combative, divisive rhetoric had taken a turn towards the extremes about 15-20 years ago and was coming to a head in 2016, thats why we saw Trump and Hillary leading the charge in 2016, thats why we see the hate crimes we see now.

While Trumps election was a symptom of the sickness in this country, he isnt the cause of it. Is he responsible, at least in part? Sure I guess.

Its my opinion what were seeing is a generation who has seen nothing but division, theres many “kids” who believe that the enemy is “nextdoor” and it is either kill or be killed.

I wonder how much of that uptick during Obama’s presidency was a result of having a black President from Kenya in office.

 

[BlazerWookee]

Protests were happening before Trump was elected.

You misspelled "riots."

Just sayin'.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

I wonder how much of that uptick during Obama’s presidency was a result of having a black President from Kenya in office.

I dont know. Im sure there were a lot of racists very pissed off about it. I wasnt trying to Blame Obama for it, if thats the way it sounded.

 

[BlazerWookee]

As much as I don't like the way these things have gone over the last couple of years, I can't ignore the fact that LITERAL Nazis are marching through the streets of Portland and you people are blaming "both sides" and hating on Antifa. There are dick bags in any group, but Antifa stands for Anti-fascist. The hateful right wing groups stand for fascism and don't believe non whites have the right to even exist. One of these things is not like the other.

You can't believe that non-white people don't have a right to even exist and still be called a "peaceful protester". Fuck that shit.

Antifa is the single most ironically named organization in history.

 

[BlazerWookee]

Its figurative.

By burn stuff, I mean people like Antifa. Again, figuratively.

Burn it all down and replace it with a system with more order. We are at the point of no return.

So... they're fascists. Got it.

 

[BlazerWookee]

Sure, it's hypocritical but there is a massive asterisk attached: when confronting fascists, sometimes words aren't enough. And while I think this is part of a bigger discussion, I will say I think we've all seen what hateful language can do to a country--now and throughout history. (And give me a fucking break about debate. What a waste of time.)

Listen, I'm all for free speech, but hate speech can fuck off. Richard Spencer can get punched daily and I'm fine with it. What is most disappointing to me, actually, is that we regular people don't run the Proud Boys out of town ourselves.

The fascists they confront the most are the ones they see in their mirrors every day.

 

[BlazerWookee]

I’m rooting for whoever likes Mexicans the most.

That's such a Polish stance...

 

[BlazerWookee]

Antifa didn’t do the damage. Anarchists did. Antifa is standing up to the dip shit invaders now.

Tomato, tomato...

 

[BlazerWookee]

One side does have the moral high ground is the thing though.

Yeah, not so much.

 

[BlazerWookee]

But you’re wrong

No, he isn't.

 

[santeesioux]

That's such a Polish stance...

To be fair I did see a Cuban guy on the right wing side lol.

 

[Hoopguru]

IA][/QUOTE]

Tom Cotton - Supported by KKK leaders, says Racist stuff all the time.
Ralph Northam - Literally wearing Blackface...
Angus King - that ones not hard to find.
Don Beyer Jr, literally said not to be too hard on his State AG for wearing Blackface because a republican was next in line.

I could find more.

The problem is I am totally opposed to your point that saying there are other Racists is some how excusing Trumps behaviors.

Its not excusing anything, and my original point had nothing to do with both-sideism it was that I think many people, and the media have found their scape-goat in Trump. Everyone’s got a name to attach racism too. It has nothing to do with excusing his behavior and I think you trying to read that into it is a pretty weak tactic. Im not falling for it. Ive said plenty of times how I feel about Trump.

Yiu are right there are more. Anytime you have whites, people if color, different ethnic & religous backgrounds and political preferences you will find racist. Yes, even in Washington and Throughout.
There are a whole bunch of prominent leaders in this country that are racist and the ones that like to keep it festering because they benefit from it.
The question is what do we do about?

 

[barfo]

Yiu are right there are more. Anytime you have whites, people if color, different ethnic & religous backgrounds and political preferences you will find racist. Yes, even in Washington and Throughout.
There are a whole bunch of prominent leaders in this country that are racist and the ones that like to keep it festering because they benefit from it.
The question is what do we do about?

The solution seems pretty simple. Don't vote for them.

barfo

 

[Hoopguru]

The solution seems pretty simple. Don't vote for them.

barfo

The problem is there are more than 1 in government.
And there are many that claim to be community activist. ( Al Sharpton is one)

 

[barfo]

The problem is there are more than 1 in government.
And there are many that claim to be community activist. ( Al Sharpton is one)

More than one person can be voted out of office, if we put our minds to it. It is not a difficult task.

Al Sharpton is not in government... so I'm not sure why he matters?

barfo