People said the same thing about Kaman. Yeah, if you play these older guys starter minutes and expect them to carry a team, they are going to break down. Bring them off the bench for 20 MPG and they are much more likely to remain healthy and productive.
I just don't know, bottomline we would have to see how he preforms once he comes back. Wrist injuries for shooters aren't something you wanna mess with.
I just don't know, bottomline we would have to see how he preforms once he comes back. Wrist injuries for shooters aren't something you wanna mess with.
But see that's not his only trait. I have never seen a player like him, able to get to the line off of jump shots. He has an uncanny ability to draw fouls.
Besides, you never know with injuries. Grant Hill missed almost 4 complete seasons in his late 20s and early 30s but then came back and proved extremely durable in his late 30s - including three consecutive seasons of 82, 81 and 80 games, most as a starter for PHO.
So, you just never know. I think Martin suffered a lot of contact type injuries earlier in his career because of his slight build and relentless attacking of the basket. Earlier in his career, he got to the line more than James Harden, and he did it without the non-stop flopping. That's bound to take its toll on a skinny guy like Martin.
But, back then he was the number 1 scoring option on his team, playing big minutes and carrying a heavy load. As a 6th/7th man here, he wouldn't be expected to carry such a heavy burden.
Very interesting. What really stands out is how much less Martin shoots, but how much more he gets fouled. And, he's an excellent FT shooter, so all those fouls result in a lot of "free" points.
Very interesting. What really stands out is how much less Martin shoots, but how much more he gets fouled. And, he's an excellent FT shooter, so all those fouls result in a lot of "free" points.
That's what I keep preaching! Getting to the line is another way to deflate a team. Imagine them playing solid defense, only to foul Martin on a broken play?
I hate Martin, but he's the best option I've been able to think of so far. Prior to the season starting, and early in the season, I wanted to roll with CJ (to either increase his trade value, or develop him for our team). But I'm now fully on-board with off-loading CJ and replacing him with [shudder] Kevin Martin.
I can only assume you're being facetious, but I'm not sure why. We could easily just give them Thomas Robinson and any one of Dorell Wright, C.J., Claver, Barton or Crabbe. Or, Wright plus one of the others, if you prefer to keep TRob. Point being, we don't need to trade away our entire bench to get Martin. It would only take two of our end of bench, out of the rotation guys to get the 6th man we need to address bench scoring.
I also don't get the Kaman - Martin 2V5 comment either. Yeah, Kaman tends to be a black hole off the bench, but that's the role he's been given since we don't have any other reliable bench scorers. Martin definitely ISN'T a black hole. You're the one who posted the stats that show he's much less likely to shoot the ball than the other scoring wings you included.
I can only assume you're being facetious, but I'm not sure why. We could easily just give them Thomas Robinson and any one of Dorell Wright, C.J., Claver, Barton or Crabbe. Or, Wright plus one of the others, if you prefer to keep TRob. Point being, we don't need to trade away our entire bench to get Martin. It would only take two of our end of bench, out of the rotation guys to get the 6th man we need to address bench scoring.
I also don't get the Kaman - Martin 2V5 comment either. Yeah, Kaman tends to be a black hole off the bench, but that's the role he's been given since we don't have any other reliable bench scorers. Martin definitely ISN'T a black hole. You're the one who posted the stats that show he's much less likely to shoot the ball than the other scoring wings you included.
He's also less likely to pass, that was the point of the stats. Kevin Martin is where the ball goes to die... You have Martin and Kaman in there and you are looking at a lot of shots late in the clock. That's just not Blazer offense. What our second unit needs is some more diversity, not to become one dimensional. Martin is a good offensive player, but not a fit. There's a reason he's bounced around on multiple playoff teams until landing in Minnesota where he puts up great stats...
He's also less likely to pass, that was the point of the stats. Kevin Martin is where the ball goes to die... You have Martin and Kaman in there and you are looking at a lot of shots late in the clock. That's just not Blazer offense. What our second unit needs is some more diversity, not to become one dimensional. Martin is a good offensive player, but not a fit. There's a reason he's bounced around on multiple playoff teams until landing in Minnesota where he puts up great stats...
??? For the stats you showed, Martin was the MOST likely to pass. Granted not by much (except for Nick Young), and those guys aren't known for their passing, but Martin isn't a total black hole. His AST% is higher than Wesley's and we have Blake to move the ball, run the offense and set up the scorers in the second unit. I actually think Martin would be a great fit with our second unit, can fill in with the starters at the 2 to spell Wes, or can run the three with Dame and Blake (two playmakers) to spell Batum when we go small. I think Martin's ability to play two positions (he split time equally at the 2 and 3 coming off the bench for an OKC team that won 60 games two seasons ago). and his scoring ability adds plenty of versatility to our bench.
And, if by "Kevin Martin is where the ball goes to die" means Kevin Martin ends up at the FT line, I'm all for that - and that's what those stats you posted seem to indicate. ANYTHING that gets easy points for our second unit is great by me, and if having an 87% career FT shooter "bogging down" our offense by making repeated trips to the line is considered a problem, I'll take it. In addition to easy points for the second unit, it also gets us in the penalty sooner for when the starters come back in.
He's also less likely to pass, that was the point of the stats. Kevin Martin is where the ball goes to die... You have Martin and Kaman in there and you are looking at a lot of shots late in the clock. That's just not Blazer offense. What our second unit needs is some more diversity, not to become one dimensional. Martin is a good offensive player, but not a fit. There's a reason he's bounced around on multiple playoff teams until landing in Minnesota where he puts up great stats...
This seems like an odd comment. You want diversity, then argue Martin doesn't fit. What other player(s) can get to the foul line on the bench? If you want just a shooter, that's keeping us "one dimensional". Martin can slash, mid range and hit the three. He's also very good at getting to the line to boot. None of our bench players are even close to that right now.
??? For the stats you showed, Martin was the MOST likely to pass. Granted not by much (except for Nick Young), and those guys aren't known for their passing, but Martin isn't a total black hole. His AST% is higher than Wesley's and we have Blake to move the ball, run the offense and set up the scorers in the second unit. I actually think Martin would be a great fit with our second unit, can fill in with the starters at the 2 to spell Wes, or can run the three with Dame and Blake (two playmakers) to spell Batum when we go small. I think Martin's ability to play two positions (he split time equally at the 2 and 3 coming off the bench for an OKC team that won 60 games two seasons ago). and his scoring ability adds plenty of versatility to our bench.
That was the bottom five. So sure he was the most likely to pass out of the other four who rank worse than him. He slows the offense down just about as bad as anyone in the NBA. That in itself should be enough to let you know it's not a fit. But then you start looking at the way he scores and you can tell why his efficiency has taken a dip both times he's been in the playoffs, and furthermore why playoff hopefuls don't try to retain him. It's the same reason he does well in Minnesota. Yes he can score and gets to the FT line, but at the cost of fluent team offense. In my opinion that is more than enough reason to not trade for him.
Look at some of these highlights and tell me if you think this looks like something the Blazers actually want as a part of their offense.
We want players who make that extra pass to the open three point shooter, not players who take a low percentage fade away mid range jumper. Especially when they aren't dead on from there.
I wish I could find a video of his play that doesn't include made shots only. However it's not a very good sign when you find things wrong with highlights.
Not a lot of PER = 21.2 players that make less that are actually available.
Yeah, that's a small sample size. He's been more like a PER = 16.5 player for the last three years. Still $7 million a year for a guy who puts up over 21 PTS/36 is pretty damn cheap. And given that he TOTALLY does not fit in with MIN's rebuilding plan, I'm sure we could get him on the cheap.
Not a lot of PER = 21.2 players that make less that are actually available.
Yeah, that's a small sample size. He's been more like a PER = 16.5 player for the last three years. Still $7 million a year for a guy who puts up over 21 PTS/36 is pretty damn cheap. And given that he TOTALLY does not fit in with MIN's rebuilding plan, I'm sure we could get him on the cheap.
That was the bottom five. So sure he was the most likely to pass out of the other four who rank worse than him. He slows the offense down just about as bad as anyone in the NBA. That in itself should be enough to let you know it's not a fit. But then you start looking at the way he scores and you can tell why his efficiency has taken a dip both times he's been in the playoffs, and furthermore why playoff hopefuls don't try to retain him. It's the same reason he does well in Minnesota. Yes he can score and gets to the FT line, but at the cost of fluent team offense. In my opinion that is more than enough reason to not trade for him.
Look at some of these highlights and tell me if you think this looks like something the Blazers actually want as a part of their offense.
We want players who make that extra pass to the open three point shooter, not players who take a low percentage fade away mid range jumper. Especially when they aren't dead on from there.
I wish I could find a video of his play that doesn't include made shots only. However it's not a very good sign when you find things wrong with highlights.
He's done well wherever he's played, not just MIN. He was great in SAC and HOU and he had a great season coming off the bench for an OKC team that won 60 games in the EXACT same type of roll he'd fill for us.
EVERYONE'S scoring efficiency goes down in the playoffs. You're playing a VERY good team every night. The defensive intensity is ramped up and the scoring goes down. He actually had a pretty decent post season for the Thunder two years ago. They let him go for the same reason they gave away James Harden and Jeff Green - cheap ass owners didn't want to pay him.
And honestly, I don't care HOW he scores, only THAT he scores. He's NOT going to be taking shots away from Dame and LaMarcus, he's going to give us a viable scoring threat when those guys are out of the game. We NEED more bench scoring. Quibbling about HOW we get it seems to be missing the big picture. Kevin Martin would improve our bench scoring a LOT.
Also, you do realize the guy you have a hard on for, Wilson Chandler has a lower AST% than his teammate and legendary black hole J.J. Hickson, right? Talk about where the ball goes to die...
