Without Sanctuary (2 Viewers)

[Eastoff]

You guys are either missing the point purposely, or refusing to admit to the bigger point.

Events in our history plays a role in our lives today. The voting rights act, the abolishment of the draft, red lining, slavery and many other things.

It's not about YOU taking credit or blame for the sins of the past, it's accepting that they have wounded people, beyond what you experience or know of in your own life, and it created an atmosphere in our country that still is having an impact to this day.

bringing up your own children, or your grandfather, or trying to act liek this is about "division" and "cultural guilt" pretty much glorifies that you are missing the bigger point.

The psychology of the issue is what is being discussed, not passing blame or trying to divide us.

smfh. It's not a difficult concept people.

I was just going to mention red lining

Banks created a process called "redlining," which designated certain areas of the city too risky for investment. The term is said to have received its name by referring to bank officials that would hang up maps and draw red circles around minority neighborhoods to avoid investing in.

Plus, while the Home Mortgage Disclosure Act of 1976 and the Community Reinvestment Act of 1977 outlawed the practice of redlining, there is evidence that the practice continued illegally in Portland into the 1990s (4). The affect of redlining was two-fold. First, it prevented low-income people from purchasing a house they could afford. Second, it presented an artificial barrier to any sort of investment in the community.

 

[DaLincolnJones]

You guys are either missing the point purposely, or refusing to admit to the bigger point.

Events in our history plays a role in our lives today. The voting rights act, the abolishment of the draft, red lining, slavery and many other things.

It's not about YOU taking credit or blame for the sins of the past, it's accepting that they have wounded people, beyond what you experience or know of in your own life, and it created an atmosphere in our country that still is having an impact to this day.

bringing up your own children, or your grandfather, or trying to act liek this is about "division" and "cultural guilt" pretty much glorifies that you are missing the bigger point.

The psychology of the issue is what is being discussed, not passing blame or trying to divide us.

smfh. It's not a difficult concept people.

what? are you taking lessons from crandc? whan I bring up accepted social mind set of five generations..does that not address the psychology of the fucking issue...you are correct, itsnot a difficult concept, I just dont agree with your opinion

 

[Eastoff]

The psychology of the issue is what is being discussed, not passing blame or trying to divide us.

smfh. It's not a difficult concept people.

I think it is a difficult concept though, that's why it hasn't been resolved yet.

 

[Natebishop3]

You guys are either missing the point purposely, or refusing to admit to the bigger point.

Events in our history plays a role in our lives today. The voting rights act, the abolishment of the draft, red lining, slavery and many other things.

It's not about YOU taking credit or blame for the sins of the past, it's accepting that they have wounded people, beyond what you experience or know of in your own life, and it created an atmosphere in our country that still is having an impact to this day.

bringing up your own children, or your grandfather, or trying to act liek this is about "division" and "cultural guilt" pretty much glorifies that you are missing the bigger point.

The psychology of the issue is what is being discussed, not passing blame or trying to divide us.

smfh. It's not a difficult concept people.

What exactly is your point? People are shitty. They treat each other like shit. This isn't exclusive to one race. There are white people who are racist against other white people. There are black people who are racist against white people. There are Europeans who are racist against Americans.

Yes, there were events that still shape our country today. Slavery, suffrage, the declaration of independence, 9/11, the holocaust.... My point, from the beginning, was that bad things have happened throughout history. We've done stupid and horrible things since the beginning of this country. There have been stupid and horrible things all around the globe.

There are black people who have ancestors who owned slaves. There are white people who have black ancestors, or American Indian ancestors. I guess I don't understand how someone today can be wounded by something that happened that long ago. Racism, yes, that I can understand, but why a specific event like slavery?

 

[julius]

I think it is a difficult concept though, that's why it hasn't been resolved yet.

No, the difficult concept is that we're talking about the impact on people over time, vs making it about "well I'm not racist, so why are black people whining"

 

[julius]

What exactly is your point? People are shitty. They treat each other like shit. This isn't exclusive to one race. There are white people who are racist against other white people. There are black people who are racist against white people. There are Europeans who are racist against Americans.

Yes, there were events that still shape our country today. Slavery, suffrage, the declaration of independence, 9/11, the holocaust.... My point, from the beginning, was that bad things have happened throughout history. We've done stupid and horrible things since the beginning of this country. There have been stupid and horrible things all around the globe.

There are black people who have ancestors who owned slaves. There are white people who have black ancestors, or American Indian ancestors. I guess I don't understand how someone today can be wounded by something that happened that long ago. Racism, yes, that I can understand, but why a specific event like slavery?

because it was an acceptable behavior, and that acceptable behavior, while watered down, lead to a belief as to how black people are supposed to act and how it is acceptable for whites to treat and talk about blacks.

 

[DaLincolnJones]

No, the difficult concept is that we're talking about the impact on people over time, vs making it about "well I'm not racist, so why are black people whining"

first, I have seen no one say that

seconed, when I say tht I can see the change within in ten decades worth of history tha I have had available to me, you discount that..

tell us, how many generations should pay for the ills of your great great grandfathers? Should I still hate the Japs that removed the heads of prisoners durring WW?

 

[Natebishop3]

because it was an acceptable behavior, and that acceptable behavior, while watered down, lead to a belief as to how black people are supposed to act and how it is acceptable for whites to treat and talk about blacks.

So my question is, how is this different in the north compared to the south? Is it different in England?

9/11 was very recent and has created an environment of distrust and racism towards anyone from the Middle East. Is it currently worse for Muslims in America? Has it lead to a believe of how Middle Easterners are supposed to act and how it is acceptable for whites to treat and talk about them?

Bottom line, racism exists and will continue to exist for as long as human nature exists. People might not want to admit that they're racist, but everyone stereotypes. We stereotype about race, about religion, about the way someone dresses. I just don't see this changing.

 

[magnifier661]

So fucking disturbing! So sad

 

[oldguy]

We have a black president. There are hundreds/thousands of black congressmen, senators, governors, mayors, state representatives, county commissioners, city counselors, school superintendents..... all voted into office of the free will of the voters. I'd say things have changed, a lot.

Something like 500,000 white men died to free the slaves. While it is fine to be ashamed that our country ever allowed that shit to happen, it is also ok to be proud that there were people willing to die to put an end to it.

Go Blazers

 

[magnifier661]

So my question is, how is this different in the north compared to the south? Is it different in England?

9/11 was very recent and has created an environment of distrust and racism towards anyone from the Middle East. Is it currently worse for Muslims in America? Has it lead to a believe of how Middle Easterners are supposed to act and how it is acceptable for whites to treat and talk about them?

Bottom line, racism exists and will continue to exist for as long as human nature exists. People might not want to admit that they're racist, but everyone stereotypes. We stereotype about race, about religion, about the way someone dresses. I just don't see this changing.

Truth....

 

[DaLincolnJones]

So my question is, how is this different in the north compared to the south? Is it different in England?

9/11 was very recent and has created an environment of distrust and racism towards anyone from the Middle East. Is it currently worse for Muslims in America? Has it lead to a believe of how Middle Easterners are supposed to act and how it is acceptable for whites to treat and talk about them?

Bottom line, racism exists and will continue to exist for as long as human nature exists. People might not want to admit that they're racist, but everyone stereotypes. We stereotype about race, about religion, about the way someone dresses. I just don't see this changing.

interesting take

I would question if all stereotypes are racist? Some guy in a suite, most would assume he is a professional..long hair guy, most would think he is a dope smoker..etc etc

 

[Natebishop3]

interesting take

I would question if all stereotypes are racist? Some guy in a suite, most would assume he is a professional..long hair guy, most would think he is a dope smoker..etc etc

I think mostly I was just trying to illustrate that it is human nature to consciously or subconsciously put people in categories. Some good and some bad. This is human nature. You might meet someone and decide in the first 30 seconds that he's an asshole. Maybe he's just having a bad day and he's really a nice guy, but you decide that he's a tool and you don't want to be around him. Similarly, many Americans saw the planes crash into the Twin Towers and now have an inherent distrust for Muslims. It could be generations before this goes away.

 

[MarAzul]

We have a black president. There are hundreds/thousands of black congressmen, senators, governors, mayors, state representatives, county commissioners, city counselors, school superintendents..... all voted into office of the free will of the voters. I'd say things have changed, a lot.

Something like 500,000 white men died to free the slaves. While it is fine to be ashamed that our country ever allowed that shit to happen, it is also ok to be proud that there were people willing to die to put an end to it.

Go Blazers

1.1 million I believe was the final casualty count of that war that cost several billion dollars. One hell of a monstrous price to pay for freeing 3.3 million slaves.

 

[oldguy]

1.1 million I believe was the final casualty count of that war that cost several billion dollars. One hell of a monstrous price to pay for freeing 3.3 million slaves.

Appreciate the correction, I was just too lazy to look it up.

Go Blazers

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

Julius, you do realize there were a lot of white slaves and indentured servants, right?

 

[DaLincolnJones]

I think mostly I was just trying to illustrate that it is human nature to consciously or subconsciously put people in categories. Some good and some bad. This is human nature. You might meet someone and decide in the first 30 seconds that he's an asshole. Maybe he's just having a bad day and he's really a nice guy, but you decide that he's a tool and you don't want to be around him. Similarly, many Americans saw the planes crash into the Twin Towers and now have an inherent distrust for Muslims. It could be generations before this goes away.

for the most part, the abaility to develope a first impressin, profile or what ever else you want to call it is a survival instinct..not a bad thing, all in all

evenn before the twin tower disaster, I have had an extreme dfference in values with most muslims..its a cultural thing rathr than religious..

 

[DaLincolnJones]

Julius, you do realize there were a lot of white slaves and indentured servants, right?

ssshhhhhuuuuussshhhh....nothing bad ever happens to whitey

 

[magnifier661]

Talking about the civil war, most of those photos were shot from 1911-1930. That was long after the civil war

 

[Mediocre Man]

Talking about the civil war, most of those photos were shot from 1911-1930. That was long after the civil war

And 3-4 generations prior

 

[MarAzul]

for the most part, the abaility to develope a first impressin, profile or what ever else you want to call it is a survival instinct..not a bad thing, all in all

evenn before the twin tower disaster, I have had an extreme dfference in values with most muslims..its a cultural thing rathr than religious..

Perhaps you have cause.

http://researchnews.osu.edu/archive/whtslav.htm

You might be taken for an Infidel.

 

[BlazerCaravan]

slightly different scenarios here. While the internment camps were bad, it's not like Japanese people were taken from Japan, sold into slavery, and beaten, dehumanized and racially isolated for generations.

Which of course is basically what the Japanese did to the Chinese in Nanking... a (much) less charitable part of me would say that you can't disown your brethren when they're the aggressors and cling to them when they were the victims or were heroes, because that would be hypocritical... but then it's all human nature to do just that all the time.

 

[BlazerCaravan]

And 3-4 generations prior

What, no (well, more like 7-8) joke?

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

What, no (well, more like 7-8) joke?

When I google "how long is a generation", I get a lot of 15-20 years, and some longer. So 3-4 is more likely than 7-8, if the interwebz are to be believed.

I had to google it as it's actually long been a question of mine.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

Forget what happened 100 years ago . . . I would like someone to explain why the private power positions in the Tri-County area (CEOs, CFOs, partners at large marketing firms, large law firms, large accounting firms) is not representative of the minority population in Portland. I haven't seen the studies recently but a 5-10 years ago, there was less than 1% of black people held these positions at the major corporations in the surrounding areas.

Truth is, even in today's world, black people (and other minorities) have hurdles to overcome. Portland is a white town with little opportunities for people of color in the private sector. If a black person came to me about career path, I would tell them to get out of Oregon . . . just true honest advise.

 

[DaLincolnJones]

Perhaps you have cause.

http://researchnews.osu.edu/archive/whtslav.htm

You might be taken for an Infidel.

I have to admit that this is something that Iknow nothing about. Thaks forthe link. This is very interesting.

Most other accounts of slavery along the Barbary coast didn’t try to estimate the number of slaves, or only looked at the number of slaves in particular cities, Davis said. Most previously estimated slave counts have thus tended to be in the thousands, or at most in the tens of thousands. Davis, by contrast, has calculated that between 1 million and 1.25 million European Christians were captured and forced to work in North Africa from the 16th to 18th centuries.

A lot of history I have read glossed over this subject in a sentece or two.

 

[Denny Crane]

How many lynchings in US history? Maybe 4000.

4000 too many, but also not indicative of genocide. Many in the Northern states... You can't just blame the south.

The purpose was to "put people in their place." Intimidation.

The intimidation is still there in one form or another. Be it the gruesome murder of James Byrd to segregation to housing projects.

And institutionalized racism. Our predecessors enacted punitive laws and regulations that benefit white people, still, and punish black people still.

 

[BlazerCaravan]

How many lynchings in US history? Maybe 4000.

4000 too many, but also not indicative of genocide. Many in the Northern states... You can't just blame the south.

The purpose was to "put people in their place." Intimidation.

The intimidation is still there in one form or another. Be it the gruesome murder of James Byrd to segregation to housing projects.

And institutionalized racism. Our predecessors enacted punitive laws and regulations that benefit white people, still, and punish black people still.

Intimidation is a very kind word; terrorism might be better.

 

[Denny Crane]

Intimidation is a very kind word; terrorism might be better.

Terrorism doesn't exactly work. Intimidation clearly has.

 

[julius]

How many lynchings in US history? Maybe 4000.

4000 too many, but also not indicative of genocide. Many in the Northern states... You can't just blame the south.

The purpose was to "put people in their place." Intimidation.

The intimidation is still there in one form or another. Be it the gruesome murder of James Byrd to segregation to housing projects.

And institutionalized racism. Our predecessors enacted punitive laws and regulations that benefit white people, still, and punish black people still.

Well said Denny.