Without Sanctuary (2 Viewers)

[DaLincolnJones]

How many lynchings in US history? Maybe 4000.

4000 too many, but also not indicative of genocide. Many in the Northern states... You can't just blame the south.

The purpose was to "put people in their place." Intimidation.

The intimidation is still there in one form or another. Be it the gruesome murder of James Byrd to segregation to housing projects.

And institutionalized racism. Our predecessors enacted punitive laws and regulations that benefit white people, still, and punish black people still.

ahhh Denny...

institutionalized racism?

The intimidation?

buzz words in this day and age

as any seconed grade teacher would require, show your work

 

[PapaG]

Some of my Italian relatives, including my grandmother's sister and her children, were moved from San Francisco to camps in Wyoming during WWII by FDR. When released, they moved to Montana and started life over again, and their siblings joined them to build a community in the mining town of Red Lodge, MT. I don't recall them ever asking for handouts from the government.

 

[julius]

Some of my Italian relatives, including my grandmother's sister and he children, were moved from San Francisco to camps in Wyoming during WWII by FDR. When released, they moved to Montana and started life over again, and their siblings joined them to build a community in the mining town of Red Lodge, MT. I don't recall them ever asking for handouts from the government.

false equivalencies are fun.

 

[PapaG]

"Progressives" sure like to bring up the past, and the only reason is to further divide people based on race, economics, etc.

I am frankly sick of "progressives" keeping blacks, gays, the 99%, and others in a perpetual state of angst against their fellow Americans.

 

[PapaG]

false equivalencies are fun.

What is the point of this thread? That there is an ugly racist past in America? Go to a soccer game in Europe, perhaps a game involving Mario Balotelli, and tell me that racism isn't more prominent. The US right now is the most diverse country in the world, and has the most opportunity for people of all colors. It's not even close, yet people like you continue to bring up a past that none of us in the present have any involvement in, at all.

It's disgusting, IMO.

 

[PapaG]

Forget what happened 100 years ago . . . I would like someone to explain why the private power positions in the Tri-County area (CEOs, CFOs, partners at large marketing firms, large law firms, large accounting firms) is not representative of the minority population in Portland. I haven't seen the studies recently but a 5-10 years ago, there was less than 1% of black people held these positions at the major corporations in the surrounding areas.

Truth is, even in today's world, black people (and other minorities) have hurdles to overcome. Portland is a white town with little opportunities for people of color in the private sector. If a black person came to me about career path, I would tell them to get out of Oregon . . . just true honest advise.

Everybody has hurdles to overcome. As for your "advise" to a black person, where would you send them?

 

[PapaG]

Also julius, fuck off for pooh-poohing a family taken from the docks of South San Francisco and moved into the middle of nowhere, solely because they were Italian.

Rich white guilt jerk-offs who have had no adversity in their lives rule. It's easy for them to shame us all.

 

[Mediocre Man]

But don't you feel like today.....TODAY, where we all live, intimidation goes both ways in one form or another?

What happened in the past was and still is horrific, however, that shouldn't have any effect (SP?) on the young people of today. People of all color have the exact same opportunities as everyone else. As has been said, there are black congressmen, senators and a black President. To say otherwise is just wrong, IMO.

 

[julius]

Also julius, fuck off for pooh-poohing a family taken from the docks of South San Francisco and moved into the middle of nowhere, solely because they were Italian.

Rich white guilt jerk-offs who have had no adversity in their lives rule. It's easy for them to shame us all.

You know why it's not nearly as bad?

An Italian family can learn English, change their last name to Johnson, and everyone would just assume they're not Italians.

A black family couldn't just change their accent a little, change their last name and have it so people wouldn't know they were black.

Where am I "shaming" anyone?

 

[julius]

But don't you feel like today.....TODAY, where we all live, intimidation goes both ways in one form or another?

I'd much rather have the intimidation that comes from society towards a white person, than the one that comes towards minorities from our society. You know, the one that assumes all Mexicans are here illegally, don't speak English and we should be able to ask any brown skinned person for their ID when they're close to the border. Or that once a black person is president finally, we still have to hear about how he's not a "real American" or that he wasn't born in the US, or he's being disrespectful to the office by putting his foot up on a desk in the oval office or having a marine (or someone in the military) holding an umbrella out in public.

What happened in the past was and still is horrific, however, that shouldn't have any effect (SP?) on the young people of today. People of all color have the exact same opportunities as everyone else. As has been said, there are black congressmen, senators and a black President. To say otherwise is just wrong, IMO.

I think instead of repeating a lot of what I said, I'll just ask this.

You don't deny that whites were given a head start, and the rest of the country is catching up, right?

So if you've been given a head start, and in some cases don't have to struggle nearly as much to get your foot in the door, you'll be ahead. It doesn't mean you've cheated, or didn't work hard, it just meant that a lot of the struggles others faced, you didn't.

your grandfather not getting a loan because he was black (say, in the 40's or 50's) to buy a house to raise his family, could have an impact on your life. So instead they struggled to find a decent home to live in, and maybe were forced to live in a crappier part of town. So maybe their kids didn't have access to a decent school, and it would've been harder to get into a better college. Maybe they didn't get into college at all, and worked a factory job and maybe never had stability.

And yes, this happens to all races of people, but the %'s of minorities who this story fits is much more significant.

That's why stuff that happened 100 years ago, 50 years ago, has an impact on people today. not the threat of being lynched, but the impact of the actions that put people further behind in the "race".

 

[Denny Crane]

Being black is a crime! That makes it trivial to go arrest black men and put them in jail. Then people can point to the stats and say, "look, that's where the crime is!"

Meanwhile, the cops then go into black neighborhoods (another issue altogether) and do stop and frisk, which is an illegal search without warrant.

But yeah, we all live with that sort of thing. NOT.

 

[Mediocre Man]

I'd much rather have the intimidation that comes from society towards a white person, than the one that comes towards minorities from our society. You know, the one that assumes all Mexicans are here illegally, don't speak English and we should be able to ask any brown skinned person for their ID when they're close to the border. Or that once a black person is president finally, we still have to hear about how he's not a "real American" or that he wasn't born in the US, or he's being disrespectful to the office by putting his foot up on a desk in the oval office or having a marine (or someone in the military) holding an umbrella out in public.




I think instead of repeating a lot of what I said, I'll just ask this.

You don't deny that whites were given a head start, and the rest of the country is catching up, right?

So if you've been given a head start, and in some cases don't have to struggle nearly as much to get your foot in the door, you'll be ahead. It doesn't mean you've cheated, or didn't work hard, it just meant that a lot of the struggles others faced, you didn't.

your grandfather not getting a loan because he was black (say, in the 40's or 50's) to buy a house to raise his family, could have an impact on your life. So instead they struggled to find a decent home to live in, and maybe were forced to live in a crappier part of town. So maybe their kids didn't have access to a decent school, and it would've been harder to get into a better college. Maybe they didn't get into college at all, and worked a factory job and maybe never had stability.

And yes, this happens to all races of people, but the %'s of minorities who this story fits is much more significant.

That's why stuff that happened 100 years ago, 50 years ago, has an impact on people today. not the threat of being lynched, but the impact of the actions that put people further behind in the "race".

I'm sorry, but it seems like all you are doing is making excuses.

All teachers get teaching degrees. All school districts teach children to read, write and do math. Every single student, white, black, poor, rich, has the ability to decided his or her future. Sure, things can happen to all people that may alter that, but if you choose to work hard, get good grades, you can go to college period. If they didn't get into college that's on them, and them alone. They can easily start out at a junior college as well. Financial aid is available, as well as many grants and scholarships. If you choose to work hard, you have a chance to succeed. if you choose not to work hard and blame everyone around you then you likely won't succeed.

As for the question you asked me, yes, whites were given a head start. However, saying a white child born on the day, in the same hospital to financially equal parents as a black child has more advantages is a cop out.

 

[julius]

As for the question you asked me, yes, whites were given a head start. However, saying a white child born on the day, in the same hospital to financially equal parents as a black child has more advantages is a cop out.

yeah, if all things are equal. But the point is, all things aren't equal.

 

[Mediocre Man]

yeah, if all things are equal. But the point is, all things aren't equal.

I was born in 1965, in Northeast Portland. Not a super great area, I had black and white friends I grew up with all around the neighborhood. As we got older, some of those kids joined gangs. Now, who are we blaming that on?

 

[julius]

I was born in 1965, in Northeast Portland. Not a super great area, I had black and white friends I grew up with all around the neighborhood. As we got older, some of those kids joined gangs. Now, who are we blaming that on?

obviously white people.


/El Presidente

 

[magnifier661]

You know why it's not nearly as bad?

An Italian family can learn English, change their last name to Johnson, and everyone would just assume they're not Italians.

A black family couldn't just change their accent a little, change their last name and have it so people wouldn't know they were black.

Where am I "shaming" anyone?

It takes a lot more than just an accent change. I don't know if you remembered how hard it was for Irish in the U.S. They had a lot of prejudice as well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Irish_sentiment

 

[The_Lillard_King]

But don't you feel like today.....TODAY, where we all live, intimidation goes both ways in one form or another?

What happened in the past was and still is horrific, however, that shouldn't have any effect (SP?) on the young people of today. People of all color have the exact same opportunities as everyone else. As has been said, there are black congressmen, senators and a black President. To say otherwise is just wrong, IMO.

I mentioned this before, let's talk TODAY. You point to public positions to show things have balanced out. Let me point to the private sector to show things are not equal. There is a disproportionate number of partners, CEO, CFO and the like. You may see it as people of all colors have the exact same opportunity but for some reason white people get all the good private jobs. Why?

Wish I had time for current research . . . Moss Adams and KPMG here in Ptd, major accounting firms . . . wonder how many black partners they have? It is easy to say everyone has equal opportunity yet in Ptd, the odds for a young black kid to grow up and be partner at a large company is very low.

In fact someone just put out the list of top 400 richest people in America. With everything being equal there should be at least a handful of black people on that list. WIthout looking guess how many there are. Everything equal huh?

 

[Mediocre Man]

I guess I would ask what the college graduation rate of people say in 2000 was between white and black. I would suspect, while probably higher, that the % rate of that mimics the partner/CFO/CEO stats

 

[maxiep]

I guess because they can't change their name to Johnson and pretend they're white, is why Asians are such massive failure in this country.

Plenty of groups that can't trace their origins to the Mayflower have faced discrimination. Those groups managed to overcome them, yet certain ones continue to lag.

It's not just race. I'm not denying the existence of racism, just as I don't deny bigotry across the board--religious, sexual orientation, manner of speaking, manner of dress, height, weight, hairline, etc. Some people simply start with more advantages, and that can't be helped. However, it can be overcome.

Bottom line: Culture matters. And until black culture places the same emphasis on education and family as other segments of society, they'll continue to lag behind. Crying racism is a crutch.

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

An asian named "Johnson"? That would be pronounced "Rahn-sun".

 

[The_Lillard_King]

Just had a chance to look at the top 400 . . . not one black person that I saw.

Out of the millions of black people not one has achieved Fortune top wealthiest Americans. And the idea is to blame it on the black people for this?

Isn't it possible, that our society still favors white males. Couldn't that explain why a disproportionate amount of the top positions are held by white males . . . or maybe white males are just so much smarter and harder working than all other people.

I'm not saying in today's age that black people can't achieve their personal dream. I believe they can. I am also not saying that white people don't have barriers, they do. I just think it is harder for black people to achieve that high level of success, especially when the system seems overloaded with white people in the power positions (near impossible to be top 100 in wealth). But things are slowly changing( very slowly). What I find funny is those that claim white kids are at a disadvantage to black kids and how unfair it is.

 

[oldguy]

Just had a chance to look at the top 400 . . . not one black person that I saw.

Out of the millions of black people not one has achieved Fortune top wealthiest Americans. And the idea is to blame it on the black people for this?

Isn't it possible, that our society still favors white males. Couldn't that explain why a disproportionate amount of the top positions are held by white males . . . or maybe white males are just so much smarter and harder working than all other people.

I'm not saying in today's age that black people can't achieve their personal dream. I believe they can. I am also not saying that white people don't have barriers, they do. I just think it is harder for black people to achieve that high level of success, especially when the system seems overloaded with white people in the power positions (near impossible to be top 100 in wealth). But things are slowly changing( very slowly). What I find funny is those that claim white kids are at a disadvantage to black kids and how unfair it is.

I take your point, but how many white women are on those lists?

Go Blazers

 

[BlazerDuckSeahawkFan94]

Just had a chance to look at the top 400 . . . not one black person that I saw.

Out of the millions of black people not one has achieved Fortune top wealthiest Americans. And the idea is to blame it on the black people for this?

Isn't it possible, that our society still favors white males. Couldn't that explain why a disproportionate amount of the top positions are held by white males . . . or maybe white males are just so much smarter and harder working than all other people.

I'm not saying in today's age that black people can't achieve their personal dream. I believe they can. I am also not saying that white people don't have barriers, they do. I just think it is harder for black people to achieve that high level of success, especially when the system seems overloaded with white people in the power positions (near impossible to be top 100 in wealth). But things are slowly changing( very slowly). What I find funny is those that claim white kids are at a disadvantage to black kids and how unfair it is.

Well in the words of Louis CK "Being a white man is thoroughly good, If I could I'd sign up for this shit again."

Being serious though in 50 years I bet this will change. As America becomes more interracial there will be more mixed race rich people. Blacks have it rough in certain areas but the well educated, family oriented, and hard working black people in this country will succeed.

 

[DaLincolnJones]

QT Maxie

"Bottom line: Culture matters. And until black culture places the same emphasis on education and family as other segments of society, they'll continue to lag behind. Crying racism is a crutch. "



I was thinking along those lines earlier. Has all of the "help" in social engeneering really done any good? Or has it been that main reason for the blight that is rampent within the balck community. contend that a lot of the things done with the right intentions have become the very things that foster conditions allowing a people to fester and rot culturaly. Seven of ten children born of single mothers, generational wellfare and on ond on..if the do gooders want to blame and point fingers on how down trodden the black community is, how unfair things are...I say look in the mirror.

 

[oldguy]

Talking about the civil war, most of those photos were shot from 1911-1930. That was long after the civil war

So hundreds of thousands of white guys dying to end slavery doesn't mean anything? Would the slaves have been better off if those guys just stayed out of it because they couldn't change the mindset of the entire nation with their actions?

Go Blazers

 

[TradeNurkicNow]

Stop. And. Frisk.

 

[DaLincolnJones]

Wars ranked by total number of US military deaths[edit source | editbeta]Rank War Years Deaths Deaths per Day US Population in First Year of War Deaths per Population
1 American Civil War 1861–1865 625,000 599 31,443,000 1.988% (1860)
2 World War II 1941–1945 405,399 416 133,402,000 0.307% (1940)
3 World War I 1917–1918 116,516 279 103,268,000 0.110% (1920)
4 Vietnam War 1961–1975 58,209 11 179,323,175 (1960) 0.030% (1970)
5 Korean War 1950–1953 36,516 45 151,325,000 0.020% (1950)
6 American Revolutionary War 1775–1783 25,000 11 2,500,000 0.899% (1780)
7 War of 1812 1812–1815 15,000 15 8,000,000 0.207% (1810)
8 Mexican–American War 1846–1848 13,283 29 21,406,000 0.057% (1850)
9 War on Terror 2001–present 6,717 1.57 294,043,000 0.002% (2010)
10 Philippine–American War 1899–1902 4,196 3.8 72,129,000 0.006% (1900)

"Deaths per day" is the total number of US military killed, divided by the number of days between the dates of the commencement and end of hostilities. "Deaths per population" is the total number of US military deaths, divided by the US population of the year indicated.

 

[MarAzul]

I'd much rather have the intimidation that comes from society towards a white person, than the one that comes towards minorities from our society. You know, the one that assumes all Mexicans are here illegally, don't speak English and we should be able to ask any brown skinned person for their ID when they're close to the border. Or that once a black person is president finally, we still have to hear about how he's not a "real American" or that he wasn't born in the US, or he's being disrespectful to the office by putting his foot up on a desk in the oval office or having a marine (or someone in the military) holding an umbrella out in public.



I think instead of repeating a lot of what I said, I'll just ask this.

You don't deny that whites were given a head start, and the rest of the country is catching up, right?

So if you've been given a head start, and in some cases don't have to struggle nearly as much to get your foot in the door, you'll be ahead. It doesn't mean you've cheated, or didn't work hard, it just meant that a lot of the struggles others faced, you didn't.

your grandfather not getting a loan because he was black (say, in the 40's or 50's) to buy a house to raise his family, could have an impact on your life. So instead they struggled to find a decent home to live in, and maybe were forced to live in a crappier part of town. So maybe their kids didn't have access to a decent school, and it would've been harder to get into a better college. Maybe they didn't get into college at all, and worked a factory job and maybe never had stability.

And yes, this happens to all races of people, but the %'s of minorities who this story fits is much more significant.

That's why stuff that happened 100 years ago, 50 years ago, has an impact on people today. not the threat of being lynched, but the impact of the actions that put people further behind in the "race".

Here is one to ponder.

https://sites.google.com/site/maraz...6/pictures-interior/The cell phone salute.jpg

 

[MarAzul]

yeah, if all things are equal. But the point is, all things aren't equal.

julius! What makes your heart pump bull shit forever?

Grandfather came to this country 101 years ago. He by passed the East coast as soon as he cleared Elis Island, came straight on to Oregon.
I doubt he had the advantage on anyone but he did have skills, he was a Stone Mason. You can see his work today through out Clackamas county;
the entrance to the Elks Club, the County Court house in Oregon City and stone guard rail all around Willamette falls and stone bridges though out the county.

I don't think he got a head start on any black man in his day, there were damn few black peiople in Oregon prior to World War II.
So what is all this shit you spread? Where did this bleeding heart come from?

 

[oldguy]

Just had a chance to look at the top 400 . . . not one black person that I saw....

I don't know how to find info on the Tri County area, so I just went through the top 200 on the Forbes 500 list. I saw 11 women. When I was looking up whether a particular names to see if the CEO was a man or women, I saw one black guy and one black lady. I only looked up a handful of names, so I'm guessing there are more. I don't exactly know how to tell if a person is black by their names.

If only 11 out of 200 CEOs were women, it seems like a stretch to say that the low number of blacks is all about racism. If all was equal but race, wouldn't there be about 100 women CEOs? There would seem to be something else at work.

Go Blazers