Woj: Miami/Utah/Memph 3-Way Trade for Boozer, Blazers trying to get Prince from DET

[ironcrotch]

Interesting article from Adrian Woj

Sounds like Chris Wallace is trying to be the bitch in the trade again.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-odomboozer071509&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

...the Heat are working furiously to deliver Lamar Odom(notes) and Carlos Boozer(notes) to the shores of Biscayne Bay. The Heat are trying to sell Odom on a five-year, $34 million contract at the mid-level exception, and a league executive with knowledge of the talks says Miami has also hatched a three-way proposal with the Utah Jazz and Memphis Grizzlies to secure Boozer.

The essentials of a possible deal would include Miami sending forward Udonis Haslem(notes) and Dorrell Wright to Utah. Because Memphis is under the cap, Utah could move Wright’s $2.8 million salary to the Grizzlies and save itself approximately $5.6 million with salary and luxury-tax payments. Memphis would probably get cash and picks for its trouble. The Heat would have to send one more small contract to make the math on the salary exchange work.

Here is an interesting bit:

Portland is still trying to pry Tayshaun Prince(notes) out of Detroit in a three-way deal with Utah, but Pistons president Joe Dumars hasn’t shown an inclination to move Prince and extend Boozer’s contract, league sources say. Several league executives are dubious of Boozer as a $14 million-a-year player, which his agent, Rob Pelinka, has told teams it will take to sign him to an extension. Miami could be the suitor willing to pay it.

 

[Minstrel]

Re: Woj: Miami/Utah/Memph 3-Way Trade for Boozer, Blazers trying to get Prince from D

I'm not a huge fan of the current Prince, as he seems to have declined a bit on both sides of the ball, but if Portland didn't have to give up any talent, just cap space, I'd be pretty happy with the move.

 

[Tince]

Re: Woj: Miami/Utah/Memph 3-Way Trade for Boozer, Blazers trying to get Prince from D

I'm not a huge fan of the current Prince, as he seems to have declined a bit on both sides of the ball, but if Portland didn't have to give up any talent, just cap space, I'd be pretty happy with the move.

I think you'd quickly become a fan of his if he were in Portland. Watching guys like Battier, Prince, and Przybilla on a night by night basis really makes you appreciate the little things they do to help their team win.

 

[Crimson the Cat]

Re: Woj: Miami/Utah/Memph 3-Way Trade for Boozer, Blazers trying to get Prince from D

I call bs. After this move utah is still at $76m if they match. I don't believe they'll pay $17m for millsap. No way.

 

[RR7]

Re: Woj: Miami/Utah/Memph 3-Way Trade for Boozer, Blazers trying to get Prince from D

I've been thinking for a while now that Memphis was going to have some say in a Utah 3 way.

 

[Fawzi83]

Blazers still trying to get Tayshaun Prince

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-odomboozer071509&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

Pistons wouldn't swap Boozer for Prince so I wonder what Portland is offering on top of Boozer to try to make them accept

 

[Minstrel]

Re: Woj: Miami/Utah/Memph 3-Way Trade for Boozer, Blazers trying to get Prince from D

I think you'd quickly become a fan of his if he were in Portland. Watching guys like Battier, Prince, and Przybilla on a night by night basis really makes you appreciate the little things they do to help their team win.

I've watched him a lot. Prince and Battier are similar players in that respect, and both have been among my favourite players, stylistically. Posey used to be a similar player, 5-6 years ago, and he was also a favourite of mine. When I said "I'm not a huge fan" I meant of his impact. I considered him an impact player a few years ago. Now he's a guy who does the little things, but as much of the big things anymore.

Still, I think he'd be a nice addition.

 

[NJNetz]

Re: Woj: Miami/Utah/Memph 3-Way Trade for Boozer, Blazers trying to get Prince from D

I'm not a huge fan of the current Prince, as he seems to have declined a bit on both sides of the ball, but if Portland didn't have to give up any talent, just cap space, I'd be pretty happy with the move.

Really? His stats seem pretty consistent. But then again, stats are just stats. I haven't seen him play much.

 

[Eastoff]

Re: Woj: Miami/Utah/Memph 3-Way Trade for Boozer, Blazers trying to get Prince from D

seriously wtf is memphis doing? They should be investigated for kickbacks or something. it's just ridiculous!!!

 

[Tince]

Re: Woj: Miami/Utah/Memph 3-Way Trade for Boozer, Blazers trying to get Prince from D

Really? His stats seem pretty consistent. But then again, stats are just stats. I haven't seen him play much.

I haven't seen a dip in game either.

 

[Minstrel]

Re: Woj: Miami/Utah/Memph 3-Way Trade for Boozer, Blazers trying to get Prince from D

Really? His stats seem pretty consistent. But then again, stats are just stats. I haven't seen him play much.

As far as observation goes, he's lost some quickness on defense, in my opinion.

On the statistical side, his Defensive Rating has been rising (the number of points per 100 possessions his team gives up with him on the floor) the last few years and his PER has dropped a little.

 

[ODENISGOD]

Re: Woj: Miami/Utah/Memph 3-Way Trade for Boozer, Blazers trying to get Prince from D

KP getting slapped again!!! its not going to work KEV!

 

[RR7]

Re: Woj: Miami/Utah/Memph 3-Way Trade for Boozer, Blazers trying to get Prince from D

I think his DRTG has gone up because the team has gotten worse. That stat is directly tied to team defense. I think it's a rather poor gauge of individual defenders, unless, MAYBE, going by players on the same team. But a guy can be the exact same player, on a crap team, and have a much worse DRTG. Is it his fault, or the crap team around him? Look at good defensive teams, and their effects on otherwise crappy defenders.

 

[alex42083]

Re: Woj: Miami/Utah/Memph 3-Way Trade for Boozer, Blazers trying to get Prince from D

I'd definitely be up for a one-two punch at SF with Nicolas and Tayshaun. That'd be great if we don't have to give up anything signficant.

 

[Minstrel]

Re: Woj: Miami/Utah/Memph 3-Way Trade for Boozer, Blazers trying to get Prince from D

I think his DRTG has gone up because the team has gotten worse. That stat is directly tied to team defense. I think it's a rather poor gauge of individual defenders, unless, MAYBE, going by players on the same team. But a guy can be the exact same player, on a crap team, and have a much worse DRTG. Is it his fault, or the crap team around him? Look at good defensive teams, and their effects on otherwise crappy defenders.

I don't think any defensive measures are all that conclusive, but it compares what they give up with him on the court and what they give up with him off the court, so it does something to mitigate the team effect.

However, it was just the best evidence that is available to cite, in my opinion. I wouldn't judge defense purely on numbers, but it does confirm my own observation.

 

[BIG Q]

Re: Woj: Miami/Utah/Memph 3-Way Trade for Boozer, Blazers trying to get Prince from D

seriously wtf is memphis doing? They should be investigated for kickbacks or something. it's just ridiculous!!!

I would bet that when Wallace found out KP was putting the screws to Utah with the Millsap signing, he called KOC and offered to suck him off if KOC let him facilitate a trade of Boozer so that Utah can keep Millsap. Wallace seems to have a hard on about KP. Utah and Miami can not offer enough to legitamately facilitate this trade. Seems some boys getting together and mutually agreeing to hand job each other to get around KP's talented roster.

 

[RR7]

Re: Woj: Miami/Utah/Memph 3-Way Trade for Boozer, Blazers trying to get Prince from D

ah, the DRTG I was thinking of was the points per 100 possessions, not +/- on/off. Maybe that is a different citing? I agree he has lost a step. I wouldn't sell the farm for him, but I do think he would be a definite upgrade for us. All depends on the price. Everyone has gotten impatient, and a move at all cost mentality now, and I can see where KP is coming from falling in love with his players.

 

[BIG Q]

Re: Woj: Miami/Utah/Memph 3-Way Trade for Boozer, Blazers trying to get Prince from D

KP getting slapped again!!! its not going to work KEV!

I would classify this as trolling. The thread is about Woj: Miami/Utah/Memph 3-Way Trade for Boozer, Blazers trying to get Prince from DET Reply to Thread. Your post is off topic as this thread is not about KP. You really should stop trying to bait this fan base. I watched your act in the game thread. It would be a shame if everybody has to put you on ignore if the mods can not keep you on topic.

 

[Tince]

Re: Woj: Miami/Utah/Memph 3-Way Trade for Boozer, Blazers trying to get Prince from D

I would classify this as trolling. The thread is about Woj: Miami/Utah/Memph 3-Way Trade for Boozer, Blazers trying to get Prince from DET Reply to Thread. Your post is off topic as this thread is not about KP. You really should stop trying to bait this fan base. I watched your act in the game thread. It would be a shame if everybody has to put you on ignore if the mods can not keep you on topic.

I agree

 

[Minstrel]

Re: Woj: Miami/Utah/Memph 3-Way Trade for Boozer, Blazers trying to get Prince from D

ah, the DRTG I was thinking of was the points per 100 possessions, not +/- on/off. Maybe that is a different citing? I agree he has lost a step. I wouldn't sell the farm for him, but I do think he would be a definite upgrade for us. All depends on the price. Everyone has gotten impatient, and a move at all cost mentality now, and I can see where KP is coming from falling in love with his players.

Okay, I thought DRtg was based on the difference between when the player was on the court versus when he was off and simply expressed as points per 100 possessions. But I just went and researched the methodology and it's based on a formula for defensive stops, no +/- component. So, I was wrong. You're right, it probably is pretty influenced by the team's defense.

 

[illmatic99]

Re: Woj: Miami/Utah/Memph 3-Way Trade for Boozer, Blazers trying to get Prince from D

Just as an aside...

[video=youtube;V8dY9LPeElY]
[video=youtube;Y_1fQk1_-wU]

The resemblance is uncanny. If Nic works on his face up game and gets another year of NBA games under his belt, he'll be at Tay's level.

 

[Erroneous Subterfuge]

Re: Woj: Miami/Utah/Memph 3-Way Trade for Boozer, Blazers trying to get Prince from D

As far as observation goes, he's lost some quickness on defense, in my opinion.

On the statistical side, his Defensive Rating has been rising (the number of points per 100 possessions his team gives up with him on the floor) the last few years and his PER has dropped a little.

However, it was just the best evidence that is available to cite, in my opinion. I wouldn't judge defense purely on numbers, but it does confirm my own observation.

My observation tells me he hasn't lost a step. So do his stats.

Regarding his defensive rating - Detroit gave up 94.72 ppg last year, compared to 90.1 ppg in 07-08. Their defensive rating was 16th last year, compared to 4th the year before. They were a worse team. Not a shock that the team numbers would impact Princes' numbers...

His PER the last 5 years has been 16.22, 14.87, 16.01, 15.57, & 15.09. Pretty consistent if you look around the league. You must have really thought he was done 4 years ago...?

Here's just a few players whos PER dropped more than Prince last year: Carmello Anthony, David West, Chris Bosh, Caron Butler, Monta Ellis, Rudy Gay, Kevin Martin, etc. I think all of those guys have a lot of years left, probably their best years in fact. Gerald Wallace fell over the course of two years from 21.32 to 17.66 (before finally picking it up a bit last year), a much more substantial drop than Princes', yet you'd love him on our team. Another guy you seem to like, Hinrich; check out his drop off since three years ago...

PER is going to fluxuate. For you to point to a combined .92 drop over TWO years is really nitpicking.

In NO WAY do his stats, his PER, or his defensive rating "confirm your observation" about him losing quickness. So at the end of the day all you really have are your own observations.

But I'd say the numbers confirm my observation instead. I'd love to have him, but I highly doubt it will happen.

 

[hasoos]

Re: Woj: Miami/Utah/Memph 3-Way Trade for Boozer, Blazers trying to get Prince from D

I'm not a huge fan of the current Prince, as he seems to have declined a bit on both sides of the ball, but if Portland didn't have to give up any talent, just cap space, I'd be pretty happy with the move.

There was so much bad Ju Ju in Detroit this season, I touched on it when another person said that Hamilton had slid. The facts are that Billups trade hurt them badly. He was the key to making that team hum. I think between that, having Curry as the coach (flat out horrible) and the AI problem hanging over the team, that had a lot more to do with many of the players performance on Detroit than any of them sliding.

 

[Minstrel]

Re: Woj: Miami/Utah/Memph 3-Way Trade for Boozer, Blazers trying to get Prince from D

His PER the last 5 years has been 16.22, 14.87, 16.01, 15.57, & 15.09. Pretty consistent if you look around the league. You must have really thought he was done 4 years ago...?

Well, since I never said he was "done" now, no, I don't think he was done then either.

Gerald Wallace fell over the course of two years from 21.32 to 17.66 (before finally picking it up a bit last year), a much more substantial drop than Princes', yet you'd love him on our team. Another guy you seem to like, Hinrich; check out his drop off since three years ago...

Yes, I like both players (as I like Prince). When have I said that their numbers haven't slipped a bit? You're trying to find a contradiction where none exists. I think Prince has slipped a bit, I never said it was a massive drop. He's gone from a bit above average to essentially dead average. I also said I'd like this deal, if Portland wasn't giving talent in return.

The reason I wouldn't want to give up talent is because Batum isn't that far from Prince and should improve, while nothing suggests Prince will.

I also think Hinrich's and Wallace's numbers have slipped a bit. Even with that slip, Wallace remains a better player. Hinrich, with the slip, is a bit worse than Prince but plays a position of much greater need. There's nothing inconsistent there.

In NO WAY do his stats, his PER, or his defensive rating "confirm your observation" about him losing quickness.

They do support my observations. They don't prove them, but then I never meant that it was proof. Just evidence. The caveat that DRtg may be influenced by team defense is reasonable, but it doesn't make DRtg worthless.

And my referencing of PER wasn't meant to show he had lost quickness. My comment about lost quickness was about defense. The PER drop was an independent thing. As I said, he's dropped from a slightly above average player to an average player. Whether that's an important difference to you is, of course, your call.

 

[Mediocre Man]

Re: Woj: Miami/Utah/Memph 3-Way Trade for Boozer, Blazers trying to get Prince from D

No real surprise here Memphis has a vendetta against the Blazers for that ridiculous memo, and us backing out several times on trades.(don't even bother asking for a link)

Memphis gets money and friends in the league, while KP gets to continue to like his guys

There was never any way that Utah wasn't going to match, and they still have until the trade deadline to get closer to the tax threshhold.

I never understood why people kept saying this was a win/win situation for Portland.


Going after Prince was a pipe dream at best because KP seems to think teams should give him players for nothing in return. I don't like the way our front office does business at all. Instead of trying to make trades that help both teams, he tries to prey on the weak.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Re: Woj: Miami/Utah/Memph 3-Way Trade for Boozer, Blazers trying to get Prince from D

I haven't seen a dip in game either.

Check out his playoff stats from this year. Yikes.

 

[illmatic99]

Re: Woj: Miami/Utah/Memph 3-Way Trade for Boozer, Blazers trying to get Prince from D

No real surprise here Memphis has a vendetta against the Blazers for that ridiculous memo, and us backing out several times on trades.(don't even bother asking for a link)

Memphis gets money and friends in the league, while KP gets to continue to like his guys

Memphis is a joke of a franchise. While they have been "getting money and friends," they have done nothing to improve their team on the floor. Pay them some money, and they'll bend over.

 

[maxiep]

Re: Woj: Miami/Utah/Memph 3-Way Trade for Boozer, Blazers trying to get Prince from D

I never understood why people kept saying this was a win/win situation for Portland.

It's been explained to you before. You may agree to disagree, but you can't flat out dismiss that position.

 

[maxiep]

Re: Woj: Miami/Utah/Memph 3-Way Trade for Boozer, Blazers trying to get Prince from D

Memphis is a joke of a franchise. While they have been "getting money and friends," they have done nothing to improve their team on the floor. Pay them some money, and they'll bend over.

Yep, the bitch of Cell Block H is liked too. Of course, all he has to do to have friends is suck dick and get fucked in the ass.

 

[RickyRubio]

Re: Woj: Miami/Utah/Memph 3-Way Trade for Boozer, Blazers trying to get Prince from D

Of course Wallace is going to try to fuck us. He will try any time he can. We are enemies!!! That shit wont go away for years.