Would Stephen Curry complement Brandon Roy?

[shamelessblazer]

First things first, Jerryd did look very good last night. I'm not his biggest fan but he looked great driving the hole last night. I do have reservations about his demeanor overall and think in the long-term he may play a little too much like Ben Gordon and want to be the star, when we already have one in Roy. A lot will be determined on if he can improve his passing, moving, and shooting skills, and his attitude in doing so...BUT HE IS A STRONG LONG TERM POSSIBILITY I ADMIT...

But let's talk about someone else too, have you guys been watching Stephen Curry at all this season? While tweener guards are normally not my fave, the reason is that they are normally gunners w/o conscience who have a hard time playing off the ball and can't contribute if not hot (think Mccants, Felton, etc) and what makes them good is how often they're hot. However, with Curry I can't help notice how well he moves without the ball, goes after determined rebounds, and hits teammates if they're open. The guy knows how to pass the ball quickly around the arc, score backdoor, and everything else...

Curry's athleticism is someitimes knocked (as was Roy's) and he's heralded as being crafty to score many of his points and his quick release. But he's been relied upon to be everything for his team and thus probably had to scale back in some areas of his game (as role players who become stars sometimes do, their defense, intensity, and focus can suffer). I could definetely see him being more dangerous as a complimentary player because of his high BBALL IQ, and his athleticism at point is much stronger than the gap between him and many SG's. He seems like the type of guy who could be a great compliment to a Roy type of guy...who knows though...

He could definitely fulfill Blake's current role of bringing (walking though) the ball up the court, handing it to Roy, and stretching the defense.

He seems like a very KPish pick to me. Smart, high character, depended on by his team, plays the right way.

I just feel like in the long-term a Roy/Fernandez/Curry three headed monster could be an incredibly dangerous backcourt with how much they could stretch the D and pass the ball around playing off of our bigs while Batum D's up the other teams star.

but then again Bayless may be the perfect fit, but he also might want to be the man. However, how do you guys think Curry would fit next to Roy (taking a break from the Bayless talk).

 

[MARIS61]

I see no need, nor attraction.

Bake it!

 

[Nikolokolus]

Stephen Curry? Do we really need to get younger at the point guard position?

And unlike Bayless who is a physical freak and a ballhawk, I don't see Curry faring very well on the defensive end of the court, he's going to get posted up and abused in the NBA

 

[shamelessblazer]

he won't get posted up by many PG's, he's not that small. And Brandon Roy BTW was too unathletic to guard SG's coming out of college. His upside was BBIQ and vet craftiness, same as Curry.

With Curry (over Blake or Bayless) we'd play as a much smarter and more versatile team IMO.

Brandon would be on paradise as far as an iso guy. Aldridge for the pick n pop, Oden for the pick n roll or post up. Martell, Rudy, and Curry running off screens and spreading the defense, he could be a legit mvp candidate averaging 8 assists a game and 20 points on 55% shooting.

 

[shamelessblazer]

No, Brandon Roy was not too unathletic. He had a 40" vert then, and now. He did not magically get more athletic as he came into the league. He just plays in a style that relies on skill and fundamentals more than athleticism which allows him to be more effective when he plays injured. Roy is not similar to Curry in almost any way. James Hardin (sp) is more like Roy.

It is clear that you can not recognize sarcasm or hyperbole
(this is not a sarcastic comment)

Brandon was knocked for being a "smart" player was my point, and he still is. Curry is not nearly as thick, however he is very crafty (like Roy), and combining that and his shot will make him succeed at the next level IMO.

 

[Kaydow]

he won't get posted up by many PG's, he's not that small. And Brandon Roy BTW was too unathletic to guard SG's coming out of college. His upside was BBIQ and vet craftiness, same as Curry.

With Curry (over Blake or Bayless) we'd play as a much smarter and more versatile team IMO.

Brandon would be on paradise as far as an iso guy. Aldridge for the pick n pop, Oden for the pick n roll or post up. Martell, Rudy, and Curry running off screens and spreading the defense, he could be a legit mvp candidate averaging 8 assists a game and 20 points on 55% shooting.

Yeah buddy . . . and who was the LAST guy to go 20/8 while shooting 55% FG?


Wilt Chamberlain was the only guy I could find. '66-67 he was 24 pts/8 assist/.595 FG%

 

[BalancedMan]

Yes.

I actually think that Stephen Curry is a smaller version of Brandon Roy. Not so much by their play (Curry is probably a more pure shooter and Roy is better driving the lane) but by their composure and confidence on the court. They both seem to play at a slower setting than everyone else. It's crazy. I remember watching Roy in the NCAA tournament and felt he just had an aura of leadership and confidence. I don't watch a ton of college basketball, but Curry gave me that same vibe last spring.

If for all his limitations Curry slips out of the lottery, I do think that he'll make someone regret it.

 

[shamelessblazer]

Yeah buddy . . . and who was the LAST guy to go 20/8 while shooting 55% FG?


Wilt Chamberlain was the only guy I could find. '66-67 he was 24 pts/8 assist/.595 FG%

who was the last all-star guard to have two post monsters to feed as good as Oden and Lamarcus will be in a year?

 

[shamelessblazer]

Yes.

I actually think that Stephen Curry is a smaller version of Brandon Roy. Not so much by their play (Curry is probably a more pure shooter and Roy is better driving the lane) but by their composure and confidence on the court. They both seem to play at a slower setting than everyone else. It's crazy. I remember watching Roy in the NCAA tournament and felt he just had an aura of leadership and confidence. I don't watch a ton of college basketball, but Curry gave me that same vibe last spring.

If for all his limitations Curry slips out of the lottery, I do think that he'll make someone regret it.

I agree with this statement most:

While Curry is a phenomenal individual talent with a great feel for the game, a lot of his future success could depend on the situation he lands in at the next level.

Curry will get looks in the late lottery area but would fit in best with a playoff level team in need of outside shooting, as opposed to a struggling team in search of a "savior".

http://www.nbadraft.net/stockwatch002.htm

and a bench unit of Sergio, Outlaw, and Rudy to give them hell (they'll both be improved next season too) would be an incredible backcourt...

Roy(32)/Sergio(16)
Curry(20)/Fernandez(28)
Batum(24)/Webster(24)
Aldridge(32)/Outlaw(16)
Oden/Pryzbilla (whatever's working)

with Freeland, Koponen, and some role playing vets to fill us out (definitely a steady point)

 

[shamelessblazer]

Yep, see, you didn't use the sarcasm font and I'm incapable of understanding sarcasm, irony, or subtle/nuanced humor without it (this is a sarcastic comment).

When a message is misunderstood, often times it is good for the author to examine what was written and see if what they are trying to convey comes across clearly even without body language, tone, and syntax. Sarcasm is notoriously difficult to understand in the written word.

Basically, my reading comprehension levels are just fine and my sense of sarcasm is quite intact. Don't blame ME because YOU did not communicate your message as well as you'd have liked.

OK, I'll concede that i should've added the word considered, let's not get in too big of an argument about it. I do think that Bayless may give us another dangerous weapon, I just like Curry a lot and everyone's sipping the bayless koo-laid so I thought I'd give us another topic. However, I do have concerns about how he and Roy complement one another on the court (Roy's passing/his shooting/his moving) and his attitude off the court...I'll be patient though

 

[MrJayremmie]

No. I used to like him, but every time I watch him he just looks like a volume shooter. He would have to greatly change his game under Nate or get yanked. He wouldn't be good on D... and Bayless is better and has a higher ceiling in my eyes.

Trust me, he isn't going to be the type of player you think.

 

[Денг Гордон]

who was the last all-star guard to have two post monsters to feed as good as Oden and Lamarcus will be in a year?

Kobe in 03-04. Actually better than LaMarcus and Oden.

 

[blazerboy30]

I do have reservations about his demeanor overall and think in the long-term he may play a little too much like Ben Gordon and want to be the star

...

While tweener guards are normally not my fave, the reason is that they are normally gunners w/o conscience who have a hard time playing off the ball and can't contribute if not hot (think Mccants, Felton, etc) and what makes them good is how often they're hot.

IMO, you logic does not work here.

Yes, Bayless is a "tweener" guard, but he is NOT a "gunner" like the guys you name (Gordon, Mccants, Felton, etc).

Bayless has an incredible knack for driving to the bucket, and drawing fouls. That is going to be consistent whether his outside shot is falling or not.

I think it would be silly to replace a "tweener" guard that consistently drives to the hole, drawing fouls (and plays hard defense)... for a "tweener" guard that is more like the "gunners" you describe above.

 

[MrJayremmie]

Curry is pretty similar to Bayless except that he is better at shooting from the outside than driving, and the opposite is true with Bayless. They both have similar PG skills and are combo guards, but Bayless is better on the defensive end and has a much better NBA body.

I think the fact that Bayless is relentless in taking it to the rim makes him a better fit on thsi team who doesn't need another jump shooter. Curry would really play a similar role to Bayless w/ Roy, and the same things would be brought up about him not being a PG.

Plus, Bayless is younger than he is I believe, and dominated at a much higher competition in the Pac-10 as a freshman getting 20ppg and 4apg. Ceiling is all about opinion though, but Curry has struggled this year when he played good competition and became a volume shooter from the outside when I watched. I was extremely high on Curry at the beginning of the year, but not really after he played good teams this year. I think Bayless is better now and in the future, and a better fit for our team.

But Curry has a very good mental approach to the game, and is very composed and has a quiet confidence like Roy. But sometimes I think that its better to have personalities like Roy and Bayless offset each other in teh backcourt... that they both really help each other. Bayless seems to really fire up Roy, and Roy seems like he really, really likes Bayless. I got that feeling over the summer when he said he was daydreaming about how well him and Bayless would play together, and then got confirmation after the article the other day.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Curry is pretty similar to Bayless except that he is better at shooting from the outside than driving, and the opposite is true with Bayless. They both have similar PG skills and are combo guards, but Bayless is better on the defensive end and has a much better NBA body.

I think the fact that Bayless is relentless in taking it to the rim makes him a better fit on thsi team who doesn't need another jump shooter. Curry would really play a similar role to Bayless w/ Roy, and the same things would be brought up about him not being a PG.

Plus, Bayless is younger than he is I believe, and dominated at a much higher competition in the Pac-10 as a freshman getting 20ppg and 4apg. Ceiling is all about opinion though, but Curry has struggled this year when he played good competition and became a volume shooter from the outside when I watched. I was extremely high on Curry at the beginning of the year, but not really after he played good teams this year. I think Bayless is better now and in the future, and a better fit for our team.

But Curry has a very good mental approach to the game, and is very composed and has a quiet confidence like Roy. But sometimes I think that its better to have personalities like Roy and Bayless offset each other in teh backcourt... that they both really help each other. Bayless seems to really fire up Roy, and Roy seems like he really, really likes Bayless. I got that feeling over the summer when he said he was daydreaming about how well him and Bayless would play together, and then got confirmation after the article the other day.

I think that's a key statement. Bayless is fiery and a ball of energy where Roy is calm cool and collected, teams need a mix of both of those kinds of personalities, and right now the Blazers are heavy on the calm, cool types and very low on the fiery amped up types -- plus I give a lot of weight to Roy's comments about Bayless, he seems to really enjoy playing with him. Not to say that Brandon should now be calling the shots on personnel decisions, but if your superstar player is comfortable and excited about playing with somebody then I think you have to consider that.

Don't get me wrong I don't hate Stephen Curry, my main objection to him (aside from the fact that he's probably going to be a top 10 or top 5 player and therefore nearly unattainable) is that I think he'd duplicate a lot of what other guys already bring to the table and doesn't possess many of the characteristics that I would think KP and Nate are looking for out of the point guard position, namely defense.

Lastly, I'll be honest. I'm tired of the youth movement with this team, we've got rookies and young guys for days and adding yet another rookie "point guard" (if that's what you want to call him) is not the direction I'd like to see this team go; this team needs less rookies and young guys filling key roles, not more.

 

[shamelessblazer]

Kobe in 03-04. Actually better than LaMarcus and Oden.

Malone is 03/04 was not good. And Payton had no idea how to play off the ball, Curry Fernandez and Webster would likely all be better shooters than any Kobe had on that team.

 

[shamelessblazer]

I think the fact that Bayless is relentless in taking it to the rim makes him a better fit on thsi team who doesn't need another jump shooter. Curry would really play a similar role to Bayless w/ Roy, and the same things would be brought up about him not being a PG.

Plus, Bayless is younger than he is I believe, and dominated at a much higher competition in the Pac-10 as a freshman getting 20ppg and 4apg. Ceiling is all about opinion though, but Curry has struggled this year when he played good competition and became a volume shooter from the outside when I watched. I was extremely high on Curry at the beginning of the year, but not really after he played good teams this year. I think Bayless is better now and in the future, and a better fit for our team.

But Curry has a very good mental approach to the game, and is very composed and has a quiet confidence like Roy. But sometimes I think that its better to have personalities like Roy and Bayless offset each other in teh backcourt... that they both really help each other. Bayless seems to really fire up Roy, and Roy seems like he really, really likes Bayless. I got that feeling over the summer when he said he was daydreaming about how well him and Bayless would play together, and then got confirmation after the article the other day.

I guess that I just don't think driving the hole would be that big of a deal (considering Brandon is top 5 in the NBA at it) if we had: 1) schemes to get guys moving to the hole w/o the ball 2) passers able to hit cutters (as a PG should) and 3) a game plan willing to feed the post

I agree that Bayless is likely more "skilled" than Curry and will average more points, but I just see Curry and he seems very KP-like in his approach to the game, big game calmness, and lack of intimidation. Unlike Reddick or others he seems to have such a better attitude and be very willing to spread the ball around, and he knows how to do the little things so well as far as getting open and making intuitive cuts, I think that kind of stuff is a big deal and makes up for a lot of athletic gaps. Curry does at least everything Blake does (which we know semi-works) and much more as he's got the size and athleticism, higher court IQ, just as good of passing ability, just as good of a shot, a floater to actually be a threat on the move (rather than desperation passes under the hoop), and a much better ability to run the break and move off the ball (Blake's two worst pitfalls).

Bottom line is that yes I believe Bayless can score points and get hot, but I'm not convinced of his shot or ability to get open (other than stand five feet beyond the arc and break a guy down), and because of that I feel like either he's scoring or he's not helping. With Curry I think he would make his teammates better (with floor spacing and backdoor cuts to throw off the defense) much better than Bayless, AND I see his personality as a better fit LONG TERM.

Bayless as a rookie is saying the right things and trying to be patient, but I think long-term he's going to be much more OJ Mayo (with better pronunciation in interviews) and want a big contract and a lot of shots than be willing to play off of Roy, Aldridge, and Oden. I could see him leaving Portland for a chance to be "the man".

But that is all hypothetical and no one knows at this point what he's willing to do. It's just that if he's this cocky as a rookie (shoving guys in practice and everything) what's he gonna be like as a third year guy who knows he can score but isn't getting his shots?

With Curry I feel like we'd be upgrading our current model (much better Blake!), with Bayless I kind of feel like we'd be swapping our problems out for new ones (him and roy taking turns driving while ignoring the other three guys on the court every play).

 

[shamelessblazer]

to be honest, a piece of me still wonders if we could snooker a very cheap Sarver into an offseason deal that somehow nets us Nash (expiring that they know will leave) while giving up Blake and Bayless, then go after Curry with other assets and basically give him a year to tone his body...but I'm not counting on it.

 

[B-Roy]

to be honest, a piece of me still wonders if we could snooker a very cheap Sarver into an offseason deal that somehow nets us Nash (expiring that they know will leave) while giving up Blake and Bayless, then go after Curry with other assets and basically give him a year to tone his body...but I'm not counting on it.

Your player obsessions are quite annoying.

I doubt Portland wants Nash or Curry.

 

[Ed O]

I don't like Curry. I don't see him being able to defend any position very well, and I think that his athleticism is lacking. He's like a guard version of Morrison, IMO.

Ed O.

 

[shamelessblazer]

that is fine.


As for Curry. I think he will be used a lot like we are using Rudy Fernandez. He'll be a shorter, less athletic Rudy.

yeah I agree, but I think Rudy is making our team much better this year. Brandon's awareness has been getting better from playing with Rudy (recognizing the cutter) and Brandon's starting to learn that if he cuts Rudy can reward him and make his life easier. Rudy's unselfishness and attitude is contagious and every game he affects whether his shooting is on or not with his passing, hustle, and willingness to take the big shot with the clock winding down. Championship teams stars are complimented with a couple of Rudy's IMO. And I think Rudy will look much better in a year (when Oden is more of a threat in the post, the team knows how to pass better to him, and he's gotten more used to the game), he's really doing well for a foreigner adjusting in his first year. That's been one thing I've really liked about Blake being out, Brandon and Rudy's chemistry should skyrocket.

 

[shamelessblazer]

I don't like Curry. I don't see him being able to defend any position very well, and I think that his athleticism is lacking. He's like a guard version of Morrison, IMO.

Ed O.

Morrison tried to create everything for himself and was much more undersized at 3 than Curry is at 1 (which he couldn't play all that well w/o a 2 like Roy). Curry knows the little things and spacing much better than Morrison ever did, who was an off the dribble effective chucker. Morrison just hasn't been able to adjust his shot (slow relase) and make it higher and quicker, Curry's is already lightning fast. As for D, I don't think Curry will be as bad, but I think our guards should play a more gambling style with our bigs to back them up, Oden will learn how to stay out of foul trouble better by next year and we should be getting more fast break points off of steals. Curry can play very pesky D.

 

[shamelessblazer]

Your player obsessions are quite annoying.

I doubt Portland wants Nash or Curry.

Do you think kirk hinshit will put us over the top? Or are you more in favor of a 14 man rotation?

 

[MrJayremmie]

I guess that I just don't think driving the hole would be that big of a deal (considering Brandon is top 5 in the NBA at it)

As is, we are a jump shooting team. It IS a big deal.. we need guys to get to the rim. Roy can't be the only one doing it, and he is already taking a pounding.

and because of that I feel like either he's scoring or he's not helping

You have got to be kidding. There is much more to the NBA game than offense. Defense is half the game dude... no matter what, Bayless can always fall back on that and will continue to get better at the defensive end. He is already our best guard defender.

The personality thing isn't really an issue. You don't need 15 guys on a roster that are like Brandon. Just because you have a hunch Bayless will blow up and leave this team isn't really a good reason to dump him. (see Nik's post)

 

[Nikolokolus]

Morrison tried to create everything for himself and was much more undersized at 3 than Curry is at 1 (which he couldn't play all that well w/o a 2 like Roy). Curry knows the little things and spacing much better than Morrison ever did, who was an off the dribble effective chucker. Morrison just hasn't been able to adjust his shot (slow relase) and make it higher and quicker, Curry's is already lightning fast. As for D, I don't think Curry will be as bad, but I think our guards should play a more gambling style with our bigs to back them up, Oden will learn how to stay out of foul trouble better by next year and we should be getting more fast break points off of steals. Curry can play very pesky D.

Look, you posed a question on here, "would Curry be a complement to Roy?" People have answered it, you don't like the answers and you clearly had already made up your mind that he is just the thing missing from this team to make it complete. We get it -- most of us don't agree with it, but we get it.

Regarding your understanding of defensive schemes, gambling on defense occasionally is just fine, but is not in and of itself a defensive scheme ... and no, that would not make Greg and our other bigs less foul prone, and no Curry does not appear to have the raw physical tools that will make him a "very pesky defender."

 

[shamelessblazer]

As is, we are a jump shooting team. It IS a big deal.. we need guys to get to the rim. Roy can't be the only one doing it, and he is already taking a pounding.

You have got to be kidding. There is much more to the NBA game than offense. Defense is half the game dude... no matter what, Bayless can always fall back on that and will continue to get better at the defensive end. He is already our best guard defender.

The personality thing isn't really an issue. You don't need 15 guys on a roster that are like Brandon. Just because you have a hunch Bayless will blow up and leave this team isn't really a good reason to dump him. (see Nik's post)

1. Way to take me out of context, truly high class move there. Brandon was the first of about many reasons why it's made into a bigger deal than it should be, here's a recap: we should have more cutters, we should go to the post more, Rudy and Batum will get better, Martell will come back, and Aldridge and Oden should improve inside.

a team of ball dominant slashers isn't gonna do shit

2. complimentary skills and schemes that put players in a position to use them are more important than individual offense or defense in the NBA. Parker, Ginobli, old age Finley and Barry are all bad defenders, yet the spurs play smart and stay at home and it works. BTW Curry averages 3 steals a game. Bayless is a pesky rookie with limited minutes, give him 30 a game and more of a scoring load and his "defense" will take a hit. Give Curry a complimentary role and his defense would get better (though Bayless still has a definite edge I'll give you that)

3. We're discussing the personality thing as a hypothetical, but I appreciate your opinion that it isn't an issue. I think it might end up one, remember, everyone is always forgiving of an enthusiastic rook, but if the shots continue fans turn pretty quickly.

 

[shamelessblazer]

Regarding your understanding of defensive schemes, gambling on defense occasionally is just fine, but is not in and of itself a defensive scheme ... and no, that would not make Greg and our other bigs less foul prone, and no Curry does not appear to have the raw physical tools that will make him a "very pesky defender."

When was the last time Pritchard drafted on "raw physical tools"? I bet we'd have Tyrus Thomas on our team right now if that was his strategy. You might be able to make a case with Oden, but that's a special circumstance and centers are different than dime a dozen athletic scorers.

 

[Ed O]

Morrison tried to create everything for himself

What? In the NBA or in college?

and was much more undersized at 3 than Curry is at 1 (which he couldn't play all that well w/o a 2 like Roy).

Adam is no less undersized at the 2 than Curry is at the 1. Neither of them is capable of playing defense at that position in the NBA, but it's a more consistent comparison IMO.

Curry knows the little things and spacing much better than Morrison ever did, who was an off the dribble effective chucker. Morrison just hasn't been able to adjust his shot (slow relase) and make it higher and quicker, Curry's is already lightning fast. As for D, I don't think Curry will be as bad, but I think our guards should play a more gambling style with our bigs to back them up, Oden will learn how to stay out of foul trouble better by next year and we should be getting more fast break points off of steals. Curry can play very pesky D.

Yeah. I don't really agree with anything you said there, either. Since it's just your opinion there's really no way for me to counter it, though.

Ed O.

 

[shamelessblazer]

and no, that would not make Greg and our other bigs less foul prone

heh, nice fake correlation to what I said there, it might fool an idiot, you should go into politics

 

[MrJayremmie]

Bayless is a pesky rookie with limited minutes, give him 30 a game and more of a scoring load and his "defense" will take a hit. Give Curry a complimentary role and his defense would get better (though Bayless still has a definite edge I'll give you that)

OK, this is ridiculous. You can say the same thing about either one. Give Bayless a complimentary role where he concentrates on D to help the team and his defense will improve. Give Curry 30 a game and more of a scoring load and his "defense" will take a hit as well.

1. Way to take me out of context, truly high class move there.

You are right, I did. I went a re-read it and while I don't agree, I took you out of context. We really need more than 1 player getting to the rim. We only have 1 slasher on the whole team w/o Bayless. Curry isn't going to slash... he is good in college...

1. He doesn't play very good competition
2. The gameplan is about giving him the ball and letting him put up a high volume of outside shots

he simply would not be great on our team.

And finally, we can't just fill our team with soft, good guys. Every team needs competitive guys with a swagger. Just because someone has confidence and is cocky doesn't mean we should get rid of them. We need that, we need his fire. KP really didn't want off the court problems, he has said various times Bayless' attitude is EXACTLY what we need. So I think it would qualify as a KP guy as well.

PS - Nik is right about you already having your mind made up, man. It is tough because it doesn't seem you are looking at it from an objective standpoint.

When was the last time Pritchard drafted on "raw physical tools"?

I think Nic Batum was drafted because he had the potential and all the tools to be a great perimeter defender, but was really raw.