Would you be sad if they suspended the season?

[Orion Bailey]

My only issue with the 'science' of it all is if you had covid, you have much better antibodies to the virus than what the shot provides.Some studies have said that could be as much as 20 plus times more effective.

So if you have had it, and have more effective antibodies, why do you still have to have the vaccine?

That is where the science starts to lose me. I had it AND got the vaccinations. I wonder where that puts me scientifically from an antibodies standpoint?

100% with ya and in the exact same boat.

but be prepared for the responses! Lol.

 

[andalusian]

Interesting...you might have something there. People who participate in irresponsible health behavior should not force other other people to have to pay for it?

People that willingly smoke, drink, do drugs, overeat, don't exercise, should pay the real price for it medically. Don't dump the cost results on those making an effort to me healthy?

If people had to pay the real cost for their medical care, they might be more vested in their own health?

There is something to it - but I believe people that only harm themselves are already being punished by their health problems and do much less damage to others than the people that choose not to vaccinate and spread it around.

In other words, A fat alcoholic is not going to pass alcoholism or obesity to an anti-vaxxer because they both attend the same event - but the same can not be certainly said the other way around, so this is a somewhat false equivalence. This why there are so many no smoking in public / bars rules. Not being vaccinated during a pandemic should be treated the same as smoking. There are places where by law you should not be doing it.

 

[mook]

Interesting...you might have something there. People who participate in irresponsible health behavior should not force other other people to have to pay for it?

People that willingly smoke, drink, do drugs, overeat, don't exercise, should pay the real price for it medically. Don't dump the cost results on those making an effort to me healthy?

If people had to pay the real cost for their medical care, they might be more vested in their own health?

Yeah, that's a pretty good point.

Maybe it makes sense to offer tax rebates to people who have vaccinated as opposed to penalizing those who haven't.

 

[royo]

There is something to it - but I believe people that only harm themselves are already being punished by their health problems and do much less damage to others than the people that choose not to vaccinate and spread it around.

In other words, A fat alcoholic is not going to pass alcoholism or obesity to an anti-vaxxer because they both attend the same event - but the same can not be certainly said the other way around, so this is a somewhat false equivalence. This why there are so many no smoking in public / bars rules. Not being vaccinated during a pandemic should be treated the same as smoking. There are places where by law you should not be doing it.

Oh, fuck me, alcoholics don't do any damage to the society... Nor drug users. Generally, not healthy lifestyle almost always spread on the whole families and sometimes for generations till someone choose to break the cycle. Man...

 

[crandc]

Considering the number of traffic accidents caused by intoxicated drivers, hard to say alcoholics don't do damage to society.
Back on topic, with more than 100 players out, I think NBA should suspend for a couple of weeks.

 

[andalusian]

Oh, fuck me, alcoholics don't do any damage to the society... Nor drug users. Generally, not healthy lifestyle almost always spread on the whole families and sometimes for generations till someone choose to break the cycle. Man...

Not what I said. I said attending the same event. Alcoholics get fines for DUIs, do you want to fine anti-vaxxers every-time they are in public and someone next to them gets infected?

All I am saying is that vaccine mandates are like the ban on smoking in bars, you can smoke at your own home, you can smoke out in the open - but in a bar, you are banned from smoking by law - and during a pandemic anti-vaxxers should be banned by law from activities that put others in danger. You are not allowed to drive intoxicated, you are not allowed to drive under the influence of drugs - I argue that you should not be allowed to be in closed spaces in public during a pandemic unvaccinated.

 

[Orion Bailey]

Not what I said. I said attending the same event. Alcoholics get fines for DUIs, do you want to fine anti-vaxxers every-time they are in public and someone next to them gets infected?

All I am saying is that vaccine mandates are like the ban on smoking in bars, you can smoke at your own home, you can smoke out in the open - but in a bar, you are banned from smoking by law - and during a pandemic anti-vaxxers should be banned by law from activities that put others in danger. You are not allowed to drive intoxicated, you are not allowed to drive under the influence of drugs - I argue that you should not be allowed to be in closed spaces in public during a pandemic unvaccinated.

I cant disagree with this. Even though i want to!

 

[andalusian]

Considering the number of traffic accidents caused by intoxicated drivers, hard to say alcoholics don't do damage to society.
Back on topic, with more than 100 players out, I think NBA should suspend for a couple of weeks.

Exactly my point. It is illegal to drive intoxicated. An intoxicated driver is a danger to others. An unvaccinated person in an enclosed, public place, is a danger to others during a pandemic.

My point was that being fat, or an alcoholic can be done without endangering others. But when you do - there are laws against it (well, alcoholism).

 

[Predator]

Oh, fuck me, alcoholics don't do any damage to the society... Nor drug users. Generally, not healthy lifestyle almost always spread on the whole families and sometimes for generations till someone choose to break the cycle. Man...

You should look at the crime stats (unintentional) and intentional.

Drunk drivers?
Drug abuse? (Robbery, homicide, suicide - which the correlation between suicide and murder - suicide) is pretty prevalent.

Having children and not being present (psychological affects)
(Homelessness - which in turn leads to increased crime)

but ok.

 

[Predator]

So sick of both siders!! Its one way or another! As long as it fits my life!!!!

Especially in the “Portland” forum.

Yet, we still have people saying “Portland isn’t different than other cities!”

Uh, ok. Sure. As fans were about to riot over Jason Kidd while he gets a job elsewhere.

 

[Orion Bailey]

You should look at the crime stats (unintentional) and intentional.

Drunk drivers?
Drug abuse? (Robbery, homicide, suicide - which the correlation between suicide and murder - suicide) is pretty prevalent.

Having children and not being present (psychological affects)
(Homelessness - which in turn leads to increased crime)

but ok.

pretty sure he had green font on that and agrees with you.

 

[Orion Bailey]

Especially in the “Portland” forum.

Yet, we still have people saying “Portland isn’t different than other cities!”

Uh, ok. Sure. As fans were about to riot over Jason Kidd while he gets a job elsewhere.

Most people don't own mirrors.
Ignorance is bliss even on double standards. Lol.

 

[Predator]

Not what I said. I said attending the same event. Alcoholics get fines for DUIs, do you want to fine anti-vaxxers every-time they are in public and someone next to them gets infected?

All I am saying is that vaccine mandates are like the ban on smoking in bars, you can smoke at your own home, you can smoke out in the open - but in a bar, you are banned from smoking by law - and during a pandemic anti-vaxxers should be banned by law from activities that put others in danger. You are not allowed to drive intoxicated, you are not allowed to drive under the influence of drugs - I argue that you should not be allowed to be in closed spaces in public during a pandemic unvaccinated.

So, should we ban everything that puts others in danger?

 

[Predator]

pretty sure he had green font on that and agrees with you.

I am occasionally (well, more often than not) an idiot. So, wouldn’t surprise me.

Thanks hahaha

 

[Orion Bailey]

I am occasionally (well, more often than not) an idiot. So, wouldn’t surprise me.

Thanks hahaha

hey dont feel bad. Just join the club. We accept all forms of idiocy. Im a proud member!

Probably one of the founding fathers of this prestigious club! Lol.

 

[Predator]

As it relates to the thread, I would be disappointed if the season was cancelled for many reasons.

A ton of people out of work, especially arena workers who aren’t exactly making decent money.

Remove crowds if you must.

And honestly I’m fine with an all-G league finals. I watch for entertainment purposes.

 

[craigehlo]

My only issue with the 'science' of it all is if you had covid, you have much better antibodies to the virus than what the shot provides.Some studies have said that could be as much as 20 plus times more effective.

If you look at peer reviewed studies since the vaccines have been available, there is something like a 5x more protection with a vaccine than just antibodies from previous infections.

 

[mook]

If you look at peer reviewed studies since the vaccines have been available, there is something like a 5x more protection with a vaccine than just antibodies from previous infections.

The problem is that you are referencing peer reviewed studies, and not Fox news talking points.

 

[andalusian]

So, should we ban everything that puts others in danger?

Give me specific examples. I do not think we, as a society, allow people to endanger people's life without consequences.

We allow you to drink, but we do not allow you to operate machinery under the influence. You can smoke at home, you can not where it will cause irreversible harm to others. You can own a gun and shoot it responsibly, but if you harm others without cause - you will be punished, you can drive a car - but if you cause an accident - you are responsible.

If there are examples you can think of where you are allowed to harm others for no cause - I would really want to hear them.

 

[TBpup]

There is something to it - but I believe people that only harm themselves are already being punished by their health problems and do much less damage to others than the people that choose not to vaccinate and spread it around.

In other words, A fat alcoholic is not going to pass alcoholism or obesity to an anti-vaxxer because they both attend the same event - but the same can not be certainly said the other way around, so this is a somewhat false equivalence. This why there are so many no smoking in public / bars rules. Not being vaccinated during a pandemic should be treated the same as smoking. There are places where by law you should not be doing it.

The corresponding medical issues many of those people have from what they chose to do to their own on bodies can WAY outweighs the amount they may have paid for their medical insurance. So someone else ends up paying for their chosen behavior.

Being in a room with 6 other medical professionals while someone was drowning in their own blood from an esophageal veraces due to alcoholism was one of the more sobering events of my life. The amount of care it took just for those last final days was exorbitant.

 

[Orion Bailey]

The corresponding medical issues many of those people have from what they chose to do to their own on bodies can WAY outweighs the amount they may have paid for their medical insurance. So someone else ends up paying for their chosen behavior.

Being in a room with 6 other medical professionals while someone was drowning in their own blood from an esophageal veraces due to alcoholism was one of the more sobering events of my life. The amount of care it took just for those last final days was exorbitant.

i blame the cops. They made him drink.

forget about free will. Its the cops fault. The systems fault!

 

[andalusian]

The corresponding medical issues many of those people have from what they chose to do to their own on bodies can WAY outweighs the amount they may have paid for their medical insurance. So someone else ends up paying for their chosen behavior.

Being in a room with 6 other medical professionals while someone was drowning in their own blood from an esophageal veraces due to alcoholism was one of the more sobering events of my life. The amount of care it took just for those last final days was exorbitant.

I understand this and said that there is something about your observation, but we clearly have to find a line between freedom and protection for the society - and I still think that the equivalence you set between anti-vaxxers and fat people is wrong. One can directly affect people - the other is a lot less likely to do so. If there were hospitals flooded with alcoholics / overweight people and others were denied service because of that, sure, it is the correct equivalency, I do not think we have seen it as we have seen because of Covid patients and in addition, they can harm others even if they are just together in a public place.

So, my point stand. Sure, it would be good if we had better health as a country - but there are levels for damage caused - and they are not the same.

 

[Orion Bailey]

I understand this and said that there is something about your observation, but we clearly have to find a line between freedom and protection for the society - and I still think that the equivalence you set between anti-vaxxers and fat people is wrong. One can directly affect people - the other is a lot less likely to do so. If there were hospitals flooded with alcoholics / overweight people and others were denied service because of that, sure, it is the correct equivalency, I do not think we have seen it as we have seen because of Covid patients and in addition, they can harm others even if they are just together in a public place.

So, my point stand. Sure, it would be good if we had better health as a country - but there are levels for damage caused - and they are not the same.

Less money and time spent on alchoholics and unhealthy eating habits leading to obesity could then have more funds for more icu rooms, doctors, beds, equipment, etc.

No its not a direct correlation, but it is there.

 

[wizenheimer]

My only issue with the 'science' of it all is if you had covid, you have much better antibodies to the virus than what the shot provides.Some studies have said that could be as much as 20 plus times more effective.

So if you have had it, and have more effective antibodies, why do you still have to have the vaccine?

That is where the science starts to lose me. I had it AND got the vaccinations. I wonder where that puts me scientifically from an antibodies standpoint?

that's actually not true in most all cases...from what I've read. Vaccination creates stronger immunity. And vaccination immunity among people doesn't vary as widely as 'natural' immunity. Another component of natural immunity is that the level of anti-bodies present after having Covid correlates to the severity of illness during infection. People who have mild case of Covid tend to have far less anti-bodies than people who survived severe illness

another thing not known about natural immunity is how long the immunity lasts. Estimates are that it will offer decent protection, but may wane significantly in effectiveness by 90 days after infection. That actually sounds like it's less effective than vaccines; at least over the course of months.

Vaccines are not 100%. They are generally more effective than natural immunity, which is not 100% either. Vaccines + natural immunity seem to offer the best protection so if you have had Covid, don't let that stop you from getting vaccinated. People vaccinated against flu can still get flu. One reason is that there can be more strains of flu circulating than the 3 or 4 the vaccination fights (flu vaccines are only about 50-60% effective most years). Another reason is that the protection wanes over a few months

unfortunately I think Covid is here to stay, like the flu. Difference is it's a lot more deadly. The Omicron variant may be much less deadly, but it's the most transmissible. Hopefully, we don't get a variant that's as transmissible as Omicron but as deadly as the initial Covid. That will be a nightmare.

 

[andalusian]

There are multiple studies that show that natural immunity is not as good as what the vaccine provids.

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/hea.../covid-natural-immunity-what-you-need-to-know

 

[wizenheimer]

There are multiple studies that show that natural immunity is not as good as what the vaccine provids.

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/hea.../covid-natural-immunity-what-you-need-to-know

those kind of facts never see the light of day on fox and newsmax

 

[HomerLovesKoolAid]

those kind of facts never see the light of day on fox and newsmax

Why listen to Johns Hopkins when you can listen to the My Pillow guy?

 

[illmatic99]

There are multiple studies that show that natural immunity is not as good as what the vaccine provids.

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/hea.../covid-natural-immunity-what-you-need-to-know

did some reading this weekend and everything is similar to this. think it's inevitable that everyone gets omicron at some point. but only the unvaccinated will experience severe symptoms.

but what i find shocking is the lack of info for those of us who got JNJ vaccine first and then a mrna mix & match booster. do we need another shot? the messaging and communication is just lacking or it's inconsistent. i don't like being able to choose what vaccine to get when i go to the clinic. i work in science and have probably done more research on this stuff than most others but even i feel uncomfortable choosing. other countries are not doing this.

 

[andalusian]

Why listen to Johns Hopkins when you can listen to the My Pillow guy?

in 5...4...3...2...

Big Pharma, Lizard People, Illuminati, Soros, Hillary Clinton, 5G, Flat Earth, Bill Gates, Dominion voting machines

 

[BlazerBeav]

Tonight is going to be quite the test - G-League game, with snow, and on a Monday of the holiday week. How many crazies are making the trek? I'm 50-50 myself.