Would you go all-in on the playoffs?

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And with this team development is translating to wins already. I haven't misrepresented anything. How do I misrepresent myself? Lol.
This is still a sub .500 team with a negative points differential. How "developed" are they really? I'll grant them that they've had a good week, but the issue I (and many others I think?) have with the "let it bake" philosophy with this current roster is what is this team's ceiling and is there really enough assets to go out and make an impact trade that bumps this team up from the muddy middle that it seems like they might be trending toward?
 
HE'S TOO GOOD TO NOT START. If he was coming off the bench he would be the unanimous 6th Man of the Year.
HE DUPLICATES TOO MANY OF THE TRAITS DAMIAN ALREADY POSSESSES AND THERE'S ONLY ONE BALL.
 
We already knew Dame/CJ could score - development would be getting the other guys more involved in the offense.
I said you misrepresented "my" side of the debate, not yourself.
 
The CJ/Dame "duplication" is a good thing.
 
Thats not even relevant to the crap you're saying.
Longterm I don't believe you can get maximum production out of these two guys if they are playing a majority of their time together. Both of them seem to be at their best when they are dominating the ball and neither really seems comfortable off the ball. How is that not relevant?
 
Longterm I don't believe you can get maximum production out of these two guys if they are playing a majority of their time together. Both of them seem to be at their best when they are dominating the ball and neither really seems comfortable off the ball. How is that not relevant?
There is no such thing as getting "maximum production" only putting together the best team possible. Iggy, Barnes, and Bogut would be performing a lot better on other teams, but they're a big part of the reason that Golden State is so good. How are they not comfortable off the ball? Would you rather have no other ball handler than Dame so that he can be "comfortable" getting raped by triple teams because there's no one else to relieve the pressure? Just so CJ could be at his best on a different team?
 
Would you go all-in on the playoffs?

I did in TBPups playoff thread, so yes I would in this one as well.
 
I think bringing CJ off the bench is a great idea...his scoring will leap and his defense will be more effective...we need to involve guys like Crabbe, Aminu and Leonard more in the offense...I still want Crabbe starting at the 2..CJ would own the 6man role every game..he'd probably still play the same minutes and finish most games with Dame..I just think our 1st half cushion would improve splitting them up early in games
 
Absolutely not! This team is too far away from being a contender to go 'all in'. They might marginally help themselves but likely at the cost of young assets and it wouldn't do anything to help them win a series.
 
There is no such thing as getting "maximum production" only putting together the best team possible. Iggy, Barnes, and Bogut would be performing a lot better on other teams, but they're a big part of the reason that Golden State is so good. How are they not comfortable off the ball? Would you rather have no other ball handler than Dame so that he can be "comfortable" getting raped by triple teams because there's no one else to relieve the pressure? Just so CJ could be at his best on a different team?
Where the hell did I say that?
 
You implied it. Their duplication is a bad thing right?
If our two best players are basically ball dominant guards who are at their best getting and creating their own shot (and are both liabilities on defense) then you automatically cancel out one or the other's contributions to a certain degree because neither guy is completely doing what they do best.

Let's pretend Wesley Matthews never got hurt and was 3 years younger. He's basically Damian's ideal running mate - a 3 and D guy who is at his absolute best off the ball and who covers up some of the defensive deficiencies of his partner in the backcourt. It's the same reason Mason Plumlee and Ed Davis aren't a great pairing in the front-court; spacing becomes a problem, neither guy plays with his back to the basket and the team concepts on offense get all gummed up.

I don't want to get rid of CJ, I want his production to be maximized because I think that helps the team in the long run. And to that end I don't think he should be starting with Damian - it's the Monta Ellis/Stephen Curry problem that Golden State had (and fixed).
 
Absolutely not! This team is too far away from being a contender to go 'all in'. They might marginally help themselves but likely at the cost of young assets and it wouldn't do anything to help them win a series.
No where did it say go all in on a contender. And you guys act like the good player we get won't be here for the coming years. You guys act like ever situation will be Afflalo 2.0

If hypothetical player is under team control for more than this year, we could give up young talent.

If it's a one year rental then no.
 
If our two best players are basically ball dominant guards who are at their best getting and creating their own shot (and are both liabilities on defense) then you automatically cancel out one or the other's contributions to a certain degree because neither guy is completely doing what they do best.

Let's pretend Wesley Matthews never got hurt and was 3 years younger. He's basically Damian's ideal running mate - a 3 and D guy who is at his absolute best off the ball and who covers up some of the defensive deficiencies of his partner in the backcourt. It's the same reason Mason Plumlee and Ed Davis aren't a great pairing in the front-court; spacing becomes a problem, neither guy plays with his back to the basket and the team concepts on offense get all gummed up.

I don't want to get rid of CJ, I want his production to be maximized because I think that helps the team in the long run. And to that end I don't think he should be starting with Damian - it's the Monta Ellis/Stephen Curry problem that Golden State had (and fixed).
The perfect fit next to Dame depends on the rest of the team. With Aminu/Vonleh/Plumlee, McCollum is a way better fit next to Lillard then Matthews.
 
I would not. Give Olshey another late lottery pick (or better) and then try for more wins.

I like the stealth tanking we are doing. Keep giving Noah starts and playing CJ\Dame together. Next year start Crabbe and the PF that shows the most promise.
 
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I would not. Give Olshey another late lottery pick (or better) and then try for more wins.

I like the stealth tanking we are doing. Keep giving Noah starts and playing CJ\Dame together. Next year start Crabbe and the PF that shows the most promise.
I don't think we ever were stealth tanking, just taking our bruises. I think the team will come out and play well on this 7 game home stand, and show that they mean business. I do hope Vonleh keeps starting, and starts to get more minutes for defensive purposes.I wonder how a lineup of Dame, CJ, Crabbe, Aminu, Vonleh would do. I like the starting lineup, I don't think that should change. But you don't see those 5 guys on the court together.
 
All in implies more than trading for guys who might help us go deep into the playoffs.

Barring a slam dunk deal or deals that makes us legit championship contenders, I'd have to say no.

I am in favor of making trades to better the team and improve our chances. All in might mean trading Dame for an aged vet or two. No to that.
 
Lottery is by no means an assured way of getting talent. For example, look at our current roster - how many "lottery" players do we have on it and we are all talking about upgrading.

More importantly, I think the team is "all-in" on making the playoffs. More than anything, I do not want anyone on this team to fall into a "coast" or take-it-easy mentality. I want them to develop killer instinct and continual striving to win and go for the throat mentality.

If that means we make the playoffs and miss out on a another potential Vonleh, MyLo, etc. I am good with that.

Yes, talent can be found anywhere in the lottery but the lower you get, the worse the odds are of that talent being "game-changing" and at this point, I just don't see us getting far enough down in the lottery to have a high chance of success.

Win if you can, lottery is a consolation prize which sometimes pays off but often doesn't.

Gramps...
 
I don't know how I can make this any simpler. This team lacks sufficient talent to ever be a championship contender. The easiest path to get the kinds of guys that could push this team from the heights of mediocrity to genuine goodness means adding more transcendent talent - Like at least one more guy as good Lillard, preferably better.

I understand your thoughts and sentiment, I just don't like the odds of us landing such a talent in the lottery this year. We are bad enough to get a high lottery pick and the odds of landing the kind of talent we need to raise us to the next level in mid-to-late lottery are quite low.

Gramps...
 
Longterm I don't believe you can get maximum production out of these two guys if they are playing a majority of their time together. Both of them seem to be at their best when they are dominating the ball and neither really seems comfortable off the ball. How is that not relevant?

Agreed. I think it is a great point. I think we need to play to each of their strengths and when those strengths offset each other rather than complement each other, there is obviously improvement that can be made.

Gramps...
 
I'm not opposed to building thru the draft. But I see that as a long term, risky proposition. Building thru the draft should be supplemental to building the team thru trades and free-agency. At this time, with our CAP space and young talent, I think building the team thru trades is our biggest opportunity. If we pass up a good trade because it might harm our chances of building our team thru the draft, I think that's missing a golden opportunity. Plus, I enjoy watching the team win now.

Totally agree. To answer if I'd go "all-in" to make the playoffs, I'd say no. But that really shouldn't be the question. The question is just what's the best way to improve the team longterm. For anyone to simply pick a single route as the way to go is stupid. Maybe it's the draft, maybe it's a free agent, maybe it's a lopsided trade because we can take on a bunch of capspace, but without a doubt it will include more than one of those methods. And it all depends on any number of variables, such as what options become available to Olshey in the future, how well the team plays, how well each individual player plays, etc. You keep your mind open because things change all the time. This time last year no one envisioned Wes going down and the entire core save Damian being scattered to the four corners of the earth.

This team is tied for the second youngest in the league and without Kaman we might be the youngest. At some point the answer is not going to be through drafting a 20 year old in the draft. We already have tons of young guys that we're evaluating and news flash: they're not all going to be here next year. Packaging some of our assets and/or taking on salary for proven guys or signing mid-level free agents is probably going to help Damian's prime more than hoping for a transcendent talent with the #12-#14 pick. If it comes to that maybe the pick will turn out, but I'm definitely for trying to improve the teams outlook if the right opportunity comes around before then.
 
Though I don't post often, I read the forum everyday. I'm really tired of the people who say we need to tank for the pick.

This team is put together with young, mostly high draft picks, who didn't get to see much playing time on their previous teams due to injury or being stuck behind someone who was already a proven player. These guys are getting are chance now and are already putting it together. When people make statements that are to the effect of "we need the draft pick to be able to be a legit playoff team," you are essentially saying that this team is already good enough, but just need a draft pick to put us over the hump. To me that's a logical fallacy because the people who want the pick basically think the team isn't good enough, or close to contending in the playoffs on any level.

How is a draft pick going to put us over the hump? I believe that this team learning to play together, gel together, and gain experience together is much more important than purposely losing.

I've heard the arguments that Portland isn't a FA destination, I'd argue that the chances of getting a good player through the draft is close to being the same as acquiring a good player through FA.

Why in the world would anyone want this team to lose in lieu of growing together, and possibly gaining some playoffs experience, regardless of how poor you think the west is this year? It makes absolutely no sense to me.

The Red Rooster is crowing today because some people need to wake up.
 
"Go all in" implies selling off young talent for 30-34 year olds in order to make the playoffs. I don't think anyone here thinks we should do that.

A little walk down memory lane:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/POR/1986.html#per_game::none

Would you have traded Drexler. Got rid of Porter and Kersey, who accomplished nothing, in order to improve the team? They ended up 40-42, and that was Dr. Jack's last year.
 
Lottery is by no means an assured way of getting talent. For example, look at our current roster - how many "lottery" players do we have on it and we are all talking about upgrading.

More importantly, I think the team is "all-in" on making the playoffs. More than anything, I do not want anyone on this team to fall into a "coast" or take-it-easy mentality. I want them to develop killer instinct and continual striving to win and go for the throat mentality.

If that means we make the playoffs and miss out on a another potential Vonleh, MyLo, etc. I am good with that.

Yes, talent can be found anywhere in the lottery but the lower you get, the worse the odds are of that talent being "game-changing" and at this point, I just don't see us getting far enough down in the lottery to have a high chance of success.

Win if you can, lottery is a consolation prize which sometimes pays off but often doesn't.

Gramps...
Gotta love a good, sensible Gramps post!
 
I see this roster as a chance to not trade a Jermaine Oneal to the Pacers where he becomes an allstar but show patience.....Noah Vonleh? I'm thrilled Vonleh is getting a crash course as a starter. I think you gauge the chemistry, have some talented 3rd string projects and go for the gusto. Allen Crabbe was Pat Connaugton two years ago. CJ was Mo Harkless..I think we're a long way from seeing what we've really got as far as keepers now. I just don't understand why Alexander and Montero aren't getting some D league time yet
 

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