Trade Would you trade CJ... The Super Duper Trade Thread!

[Boob-No-More]

Frankly I have no idea what your post means. I was talking about Duncan

Duncan was a VERY rare exception. First, he's the best PF in the history of the game. In the 19 years since he was drafted, there has been only one other player drafted that has had a more significant impact, and that is LeBron James who, while the greatest player of his generation, still hasn't won a title for the team that drafted him.

But what really makes the Duncan situation unique, is the Spurs didn't have to suck to get him. As I mentioned yesterday, the Spurs won 62 and 59 games in the two years before they drafted Duncan. They sucked for one year, due to an injury to their best player, but they basically added Tim Duncan, a 4-year college player than was already NBA ready, to a 60-win team.

The real key is they did not have to give up any proven talent to get Duncan. In the scenario in this thread, we are giving up a proven 21 ppg NBA player for the 2nd pick in the draft, who will be an 18-year old with one year of college experience that will not be nearly as NBA ready as Tim Duncan was. While we wait, and hope, for that player to eventually be as good as C.J. already is, we will waste the prime of Damian Lillard's NBA career. Seems like a big step backwards to me.

BNM

 

[BlazerCaravan]

This is quite unfair. No one knows if Ingram and Simmons will be Manning and Richmond or Lebron and Wade. It's a total crap shoot. I just think you need to roll the dice

I'm only speaking for myself and my feelings. This draft has been called weak for months. I picked 1988 because it came after Terry's 3rd year. That's all. I think its fair.

 

[Mediocre Man]

Duncan was a VERY rare exception. First, he's the best PF in the history of the game. In the 19 years since he was drafted, there has been only one other player drafted that has had a more significant impact, and that is LeBron James who, while the greatest player of his generation, still hasn't won a title for the team that drafted him.

But what really makes the Duncan situation unique, is the Spurs didn't have to suck to get him. As I mentioned yesterday, the Spurs won 62 and 59 games in the two years before they drafted Duncan. They sucked for one year, due to an injury to their best player, but they basically added Tim Duncan, a 4-year college player than was already NBA ready, to a 60-win team.

The real key is they did not have to give up any proven talent to get Duncan. In the scenario in this thread, we are giving up a proven 21 ppg NBA player for the 2nd pick in the draft, who will be an 18-year old with one year of college experience that will not be nearly as NBA ready as Tim Duncan was. While we wait, and hope, for that player to eventually be as good as C.J. already is, we will waste the prime of Damian Lillard's NBA career. Seems like a big step backwards to me.

BNM

Ya, like I said, I won't argue with anyone who says no. CJ is a hell of a player. I just think he has a ceiling a bit lower than the two top picks in this draft. It's a gamble, but one I would take because talent wise, it makes sense to me in the long run/ Could absolutely backfire though.

 

[Mediocre Man]

I'm only speaking for myself and my feelings. This draft has been called weak for months. I picked 1988 because it came after Terry's 3rd year. That's all. I think its fair.

Your favorite GM, Neil Olshey, just called it a deep draft in his presser

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Yeah, definitely. It just fees like trading Terry Porter to get the #2 pick in the 1988 draft:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/draft/NBA_1988.html

Hey, we did good with pick #53 in that draft...

 

[BlazerCaravan]

Your favorite GM, Neil Olshey, just called it a deep draft in his presser

I've heard that it's shallow on all stars but deep in good rotation guys (basically a Popovich's Delight). Neil probably has his eyes on a mid major steal.

 

[BlazerCaravan]

Hey, we did good with pick #53 in that draft...

Didn't keep him though. That draft had Kerr going 50th too. I want to score that kind of talent.

 

[illmatic99]

How about the TWolves trading an all star in Love for Wiggins? Another move that worked out well for the team trading for the lottery pick.

What about the Sixers trading an all star in Jrue Holiday to NO for Nerlens?

 

[BlazerCaravan]

How about the TWolves trading an all star in Love for Wiggins? Another move that worked out well for the team trading for the lottery pick.

What bout the Sixers trading an all star in Jrue Holiday to NO for Nerlens?

Love for Wiggins was a good move because Love had hit his ceiling and the Wolves didn't make the playoffs at all in the Love era (iirc). Smart move. We've been to the second round in CJ's third year, so I'd be gunshy about selling the cow for magic beans here.

 

[theprunetang]

Ya, like I said, I won't argue with anyone who says no. CJ is a hell of a player. I just think he has a ceiling a bit lower than the two top picks in this draft. It's a gamble, but one I would take because talent wise, it makes sense to me in the long run/ Could absolutely backfire though.

I don't think there is any way I can argue with your logic. I suppose being willing to give up CJ for a top two pick comes down to how one feels about gambling. In your scenario, there is so much variability. You could get a player better than CJ, a player as good as CJ, or someone who never lives up to potential. I understand rolling the dice there, but, my brain is going to hold on to the known quantity. A bird in the hand.....

 

[Boob-No-More]

I may disagree with no Lebron or Duncan. I get those two are transcendent players, but Simmons and Ingram both have a chance to be really special. More so than anyone in a while

They said the same thing about Wiggins, and while a solid player, he will never be the next LeBron. They said the same thing about Oden (yikes), he was going to be the next Shaq/Duncan. They said the same Anthony Davis was foing to be the next Duncan - he is a great 2-way player, but he keeps leading his team right back to the lottery. Almost every year, there are players hyped as the next big thing (the next Magic, the next Jordan, the next Shaq, the next Duncan, the next Dirk), most never even come close.

Ingram and Simmons are both very young and very raw. Could one, or both, develop into something special? Perhaps, but I don't see either being the next LeBron. Maybe you get lucky and the one you get becomes the next Dwyane Wade. Well Wade was 5 years older than these two before he became a 20 ppg scorer in the NBA. Do you want to wait 5 years, until Dame is 30 to replace C.J.'s scoring?

Of course, I just made that up. We have no idea if Ingram or Simmons will ever be as good as Dwyane Wade, or if it will take them 5 years to get there. Maybe they will be better, maybe it will only take them 2 or 3 years, but it''s a huge risk and that's 2 - 3 years off the prime of Damian Lillard's NBA career. Not a chance I'm willing to take. I'd rather keep the proven C.J. and try to add some front court talent to the roster we already have.

BNM

 

[theprunetang]

And maybe my bird doesn't learn as many words as your bird, but he's still a pretty neat bird. Maybe your bird can't sing.

 

[illmatic99]

Love for Wiggins was a good move because Love had hit his ceiling and the Wolves didn't make the playoffs at all in the Love era (iirc). Smart move. We've been to the second round in CJ's third year, so I'd be gunshy about selling the cow for magic beans here.

I agree. I'm just sayin... there's precedence to this sorta thing.

Simmons is the only one that I would even consider this for, and even that is just "consider."

 

[Mediocre Man]

They said the same thing about Wiggins, and while a solid player, he will never be the next LeBron. They said the same thing about Oden (yikes), he was going to be the next Shaq/Duncan. They said the same Anthony Davis was foing to be the next Duncan - he is a great 2-way player, but he keeps leading his team right back to the lottery. Almost every year, there are players hyped as the next big thing (the next Magic, the next Jordan, the next Shaq, the next Duncan, the next Dirk), most never even come close.

Ingram and Simmons are both very young and very raw. Could one, or both, develop into something special? Perhaps, but I don't see either being the next LeBron. Maybe you get lucky and the one you get becomes the next Dwyane Wade. Well Wade was 5 years older than these two before he became a 20 ppg scorer in the NBA. Do you want to wait 5 years, until Dame is 30 to replace C.J.'s scoring?

Of course, I just made that up. We have no idea if Ingram or Simmons will ever be as good as Dwyane Wade, or if it will take them 5 years to get there. Maybe they will be better, maybe it will only take them 2 or 3 years, but it''s a huge risk and that's 2 - 3 years off the prime of Damian Lillard's NBA career. Not a chance I'm willing to take. I'd rather keep the proven C.J. and try to add some front court talent to the roster we already have.

BNM

AGAIN you keep arguing even after I have said a couple times I wouldn't argue with anyone who said no. Why do you do this?

 

[BigGameDamian]

FUCK no. Regardless of how it impacts our team, CJ's WAY too good a guy to saddle with Puce and Bile stains.

See this is the kind of post that chaps my ass. Fans saying flat out fuck no to ideas without giving it any thought. CJ hasn't even signed a long term contract with the Blazers.

 

[Pinwheel1]

Your favorite GM, Neil Olshey, just called it a deep draft in his presser

Last year's draft was fairly deep as well IMO. And neither are top heavy. Meaning the players outside of the lottery were almost as good as the ones in the lottery. With the influx of younger players who are drafted on potential because they have not had time to develop ( i.e a consistent jump shot) I think the crap shoot description we all use becomes even more apparent. In other words more teams (Playoff teams) will be able to roll the dice.

It always sucks not to have a 1st round pick because there is always someone who slips though the cracks. You just need a good eye to catch them, and be a little lucky. It is hard to gauge their work ethic. They all need to improve, but which ones will improve the most?

 

[Boob-No-More]

How about the TWolves trading an all star in Love for Wiggins? Another move that worked out well for the team trading for the lottery pick.

Has it? MIN has won 16 and 29 games in the two seasons since the trade. He's getting better, but he's still a bit of an inefficient chucker with a career PER = 15.2. If MIN actually makes the playoffs anytime soon, it will be because of Townes, not Wiggins.

It may work out eventually in MIN's favor, but right now, CLE is heading back to the finals for the 2nd year in a row and MIN is right back in the lottery. CLE wants to win a championship now, not wait for the next LeBron to become the next LeBron (which Wiggins will never be, not even close). So, the trade made a lot of sense to me, and if CLE wins a championship with Love, they definitely won that trade. Do you honestly see MIN EVER winning a title with Andrew Wiggins?

BNM

 

[Boob-No-More]

AGAIN you keep arguing even after I have said a couple times I wouldn't argue with anyone who said no. Why do you do this?

Because you are not the only one reading this thread. If you don't want to read my comments, don't read my comments.

BNM

 

[BlazerCaravan]

AGAIN you keep arguing even after I have said a couple times I wouldn't argue with anyone who said no. Why do you do this?

Only speaking for myself, but... Because it's the internet, and I finally have a platform for my ravings.

 

[illmatic99]

Do you honestly see MIN EVER winning a title with Andrew Wiggins?

BNM

Think they're closer to it with Wiggins than they ever were with Love.

Another consideration to all this is $. CJ will get a max extension next summer. In his place, you could have Simmons on a rookie deal for 4 years.

I know the caveats and assumptions here. Just don't think it's a slam dunk NO.

All that said, it might be wishful thinking as I don't think there's anyway LA would even consider this kinda deal. I don't think CJ on the last year of his rookie deal has this kinda value.

 

[Orion Bailey]

See this is the kind of post that chaps my ass. Fans saying flat out fuck no to ideas without giving it any thought. CJ hasn't even signed a long term contract with the Blazers.

How do you know he didn't put any thought into it?

How do you know he didn't study the question, decide at length, through research, that no matter the outcome, he doesn't like giving the Lakers a proven starter/ potential all star regardless of what we get? Maybe he doesn't want to see the Lakers competing with us next season for playoff positioning?

How do you know he put no thought into it?

See its posts like this that piss many people off around here.

Just saying and playing devils advocate.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

I wouldn't even call it wishful thinking, seeing as nearly 3/4 respondents wish for it not to happen. I merely considered this a thought exercise.

 

[BlazerWookee]

See this is the kind of post that chaps my ass. Fans saying flat out fuck no to ideas without giving it any thought. CJ hasn't even signed a long term contract with the Blazers.

I gave it every bit of thought that this idea deserved, which was very little. Trading CJ for ANYONE right now would undermine Lilliard as a leader, and that would have a drastic impact on team chemistry moving forward. The only way you trade CJ right now is if that's what it takes to land a player that's better than Lillard right now, and there aren't any of those in the draft, and there are very few of those in the NBA.

EDIT: And it was an interesting thought exercise, PtdlPlatypus...

 

[Harry's Raincoat]

IDEA only....save your insults!!

Would you trade CJ to PHI for Nerlens Noel?

IMO Philly is going to have troubles very soon with too many frontcourt players on the roster needing meaningful PT. They have Embid, Okafor, Noel, Saric and will be adding Simmons or Ingram. They lack a scorer like CJ. Nice trade for both sides?

Next step (team would have to know before pulling trigger) would be to sign DeRozen to replace CJ.

Lillard (PG) - DeRozen (SG) - Aminu (SF) - Noel (PF) - Plumlee (C)

Thoughts?

 

[Trackjack]

There no way I do that trade due to Simmons has no outside shot at all teams going figure this kid out and he have trouble scoring. Yes he can pass and dribble but if going to LA he going have to play small foward. A position in the NBA you have able to shoot the 3 ball a shot he can't make.

 

[Orion Bailey]

No.

 

[KeepOnRollin]

No, but would I trade CJ for Noel and the 24th pick in the draft? Possibly. The reason I would even consider it is Noel is great on D. Defense is our biggest need imo. I still don't think I would do it though.

I do like Noel better than Okafor.

And I hate the idea of DeRozen with or without CJ so scratch that one.

 

[BlazerWookee]

No. CJ >>> Noel.

 

[BlazerWookee]

How long do I have to save my insults? They tend not to keep well during hot weather...

 

[Sedatedfork]

I wouldn't even call it wishful thinking, seeing as nearly 3/4 respondents wish for it not to happen. I merely considered this a thought exercise.

I think it is an interesting thread.