Trade Would you trade CJ... The Super Duper Trade Thread!

[Strenuus]

He's now suggesting a trade of CJ and Plumlee for Monroe and their #10 pick. Seems silly to me.

And now suggesting trying to see if Minny would trade Wiggins for CJ (+?), which is crazy to think that the Wolves would accept.

Oh lord. Bucks would take that in a heartbeat

Giannis and CJ? That would be a dream to watch. + #10 pick? Talk about getting fleeced.

That's one of the worst trade proposals I've ever seen.

 

[Natebishop3]

Oh lord. Bucks would take that in a heartbeat

Giannis and CJ? That would be a dream to watch. + #10 pick? Talk about getting fleeced.

That's one of the worst trade proposals I've ever seen.

I can top it! Give me a few minutes!

 

[blue9]

He's now suggesting a trade of CJ and Plumlee for Monroe and their #10 pick. Seems silly to me.

And now suggesting trying to see if Minny would trade Wiggins for CJ (+?), which is crazy to think that the Wolves would accept.

Awful. Simply awful.

 

[BBert]

Listening to the latest installment of @Dan Marang's Potential Upside podcast (episode 14), and he not only thinks trading CJ is reasonable, but is a necessity. Starts around the 28 minute mark. Saying that if we had tanked properly, we'd be able to trade CJ and that pick for just about anyone in the league.

Of course, the basis for this opinion is saying that this team as currently constructed is a 48-50 win team max, a claim with which I would vehemently disagree.

If the Blazers had "tanked", it would mean CJ didn't have the season he had, so he wouldn't have the value he has, so no, his original premise is flawed.

 

[BBert]

Hmmm.. Somehow Im thinking if we had "Tanked Properly", CJ would not be anywhere where he is now and thus not be near as valuable, and thus thus, not netting "anyone" in the league.

Shit if that were the case, we should be able to trade him now for anyone in the league right? I mean his value now has to be higher than last off season right?

Mad respect for Dan, but think he is way off on this. and I agree with you on the ceiling of the team as constructed.

WTF? I just posted the same thing.

How could I be so wrong?

 

[Magic's Johnson]

I was just listening to the blazersedge podcast and they threw out a trade along the lines of CJ and Aminu for Vucevic Oladipo and their 2016 first round pick. Apparently from the Magic's side this is also a very real possibility. Personally, if this were a realistic trade I'd jump at this, then we'd have a lottery pick this year, Cleveland's 2018 top 10 protected pick, and our own pick to package for another star. Are these 3 picks packaged with some players for a guy like Paul George a realistic trade?

A starting lineup of Lillard/Oladipo/George/any pf/Vucevic would be a top seed in the west.

 

[Strenuus]

I was just listening to the blazersedge podcast and they threw out a trade along the lines of CJ and Aminu for Vucevic Oladipo and their 2016 first round pick. Apparently from the Magic's side this is also a very real possibility. Personally, if this were a realistic trade I'd jump at this, then we'd have a lottery pick this year, Cleveland's 2018 top 10 protected pick, and our own pick to package for another star. Are these 3 picks packaged with some players for a guy like Paul George a realistic trade?

A starting lineup of Lillard/Oladipo/George/any pf/Vucevic would be a top seed in the west.

What is Orlando's pick?

Regardless, that CJ trade is actually feasible... not like that Milwaukee garbage we saw last week. But, I am also on board with being a big Vucevic and Oladipo fan. I remember, though, that Oladipo isn't the greatest shooter... that could be an issue.

Would those 3 picks + say Davis/Leonard (Or hendo) be enough for George? Probably not. They would want a bonafide star.

 

[Natebishop3]

Orlando has the 11th pick....... eh.

Oladipo is a better defender than CJ.... but we'd have to be really sure that Neil could swing a decent free agent.

Can Vucevic play power forward? Could he be paired with Whiteside or Dwight Howard?

 

[Natebishop3]

Vucevic is on a VERY reasonable contract. He has three more years left and he only made 11 million this year.

 

[Strenuus]

Orlando has the 11th pick....... eh.

Oladipo is a better defender than CJ.... but we'd have to be really sure that Neil could swing a decent free agent.

Can Vucevic play power forward? Could he be paired with Whiteside or Dwight Howard?

He doesn't really have outside range, but he would be serviceable.

 

[Natebishop3]

 

[Natebishop3]

He doesn't really have outside range, but he would be serviceable.

So perfect world would be Horford/Vucevic?

 

[Strenuus]

So perfect world would be Horford/Vucevic?

I've always wanted Vucevic... the guy is good on a bad team, but I think he could be good anywhere.

 

[Sedatedfork]

I know I see the world through rose and black colored glasses, but I just don't want to trade CJ period. I like the chemistry CJ and Dame have with one another. And if we do trade CJ, I want a king's ransom. I guess that's why I am not a GM, but hey if David Kahn can become a GM, why can't I?

 

[BlazerDuckSeahawkFan94]

I was just listening to the blazersedge podcast and they threw out a trade along the lines of CJ and Aminu for Vucevic Oladipo and their 2016 first round pick. Apparently from the Magic's side this is also a very real possibility. Personally, if this were a realistic trade I'd jump at this, then we'd have a lottery pick this year, Cleveland's 2018 top 10 protected pick, and our own pick to package for another star. Are these 3 picks packaged with some players for a guy like Paul George a realistic trade?

A starting lineup of Lillard/Oladipo/George/any pf/Vucevic would be a top seed in the west.

Well, this trade could help backcourt defense. I like Oladipo, CJ is far better and Vucevic is kind of just a stat guy imho, that 11 pick could be Sabonis.

I'd probably deal 11, and Plumlee for a higher pick (maybe around 3-5) to draft Brown/Dunn/Hield/Murray though.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

I can't help but think a CJ for Vucevic/Oladipo/#11 trade is precisely the opposite of the "consolidation" type trade everyone always wants. If we're trading CJ, it needs to be for the purpose of obtaining a player that is better than CJ. If (as was suggested) this were part of a three-way deal that returned us Paul George, then great; but outside of that result, I would not be interested.

 

[Natebishop3]

Well, this trade could help backcourt defense. I like Oladipo, CJ is far better and Vucevic is kind of just a stat guy imho, that 11 pick could be Sabonis.

I'd probably deal 11, and Plumlee for a higher pick (maybe around 3-5) to draft Brown/Dunn/Hield/Murray though.

Hield is basically CJ 2.0

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Hield is basically CJ 2.0

If that were the case, would you deal CJ/Aminu/Plumlee for CJ2.0/Oladipo/Vucevic?

 

[BlazerDuckSeahawkFan94]

Hield is basically CJ 2.0

Great we have our sixth man then. Maybe after all that madness we could deal Vonleh +(filler) to Chicago for Mirotic? Re-sign Crabbe, Harkless, Leonard in FA.

Dame / Montero
Oladipo / Hield
Crabbe / Harkless
Mirotic / Davis
Vucevic / Leonard

Idk if that makes us any better than we currently are.

 

[Orion Bailey]

Great we have our sixth man then. Maybe after all that madness we could deal Vonleh +(filler) to Chicago for Mirotic? Re-sign Crabbe, Harkless, Leonard in FA.

Dame / Montero
Oladipo / Hield
Crabbe / Harkless
Mirotic / Davis
Vucevic / Leonard

Idk if that makes us any better than we currently are.

Worse

 

[Natebishop3]

If that were the case, would you deal CJ/Aminu/Plumlee for CJ2.0/Oladipo/Vucevic?

Yes. Absolutely. I'm not sure Boston would do that though. The #3 might be worth more than #11 and Plums.

 

[H.C.]

I don't like Vucevic. I read from an Orlando writer in March he's worse defensively than Monroe and Jefferson.
With Vucevic on the floor the Magic were +2.9 on the defensive end. At least it's better than last season where they were +3.2 with him on the court.
He's horrible in p&r also, ranks in the 38th percentile.
5 year NBA Vet. Wouldn't expect much improvement on that end going into his 6th year.
He most likely is what he is defensively.
I don't pay attention/watch Orlando enough to know off the top of my head why he's missed so many games in 5 years.
But that looks bad.

But I've been pretty clear on who I'd consider a CJ trade for if it's targeting a big.
So I'm a little biased.

 

[BigGameDamian]

Great we have our sixth man then. Maybe after all that madness we could deal Vonleh +(filler) to Chicago for Mirotic? Re-sign Crabbe, Harkless, Leonard in FA.

Dame / Montero
Oladipo / Hield
Crabbe / Harkless
Mirotic / Davis
Vucevic / Leonard

Idk if that makes us any better than we currently are.

That would be a step backwards.

 

[BlazerDuckSeahawkFan94]

I don't like Vucevic. I read from an Orlando writer in March he's worse defensively than Monroe and Jefferson.
With Vucevic on the floor the Magic were +2.9 on the defensive end. At least it's better than last season where they were +3.2 with him on the court.
He's horrible in p&r also, ranks in the 38th percentile.
5 year NBA Vet. Wouldn't expect much improvement on that end going into his 6th year.
He most likely is what he is defensively.
I don't pay attention/watch Orlando enough to know off the top of my head why he's missed so many games in 5 years.
But that looks bad.

But I've been pretty clear on who I'd consider a CJ trade for if it's targeting a big.
So I'm a little biased.

Vucevic and Plumlee aren't much different advanced stats wise. Vucevic reminds me of a poor mans Z-Bo.

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

Vucevic and Plumlee aren't much different advanced stats wise. Vucevic reminds me of a poor mans Z-Bo.

Then no thanks.

 

[Magic's Johnson]

What is Orlando's pick?

Regardless, that CJ trade is actually feasible... not like that Milwaukee garbage we saw last week. But, I am also on board with being a big Vucevic and Oladipo fan. I remember, though, that Oladipo isn't the greatest shooter... that could be an issue.

Would those 3 picks + say Davis/Leonard (Or hendo) be enough for George? Probably not. They would want a bonafide star.

Well then could those three picks plus Vonleh and Vucevic land us Cousins and one of McLemore/Casspi? I honestly don't know if Sacramento could ever get a better package than that. Vucevic's salary is no more than $13million for the next three years and he could at least offset the loss of Cousins and Vonleh has potential. They are also getting the 2016 #11 pick, our 2017 pick (which will be in the 20s), and a Cleveland pick. Blazers fans should all hope Cleveland wins this year so Lebron doesn't feel obligate to stay after he wins one. So that pick could be between 11-20 if Lebron leaves. Would bringing in Cousins help bring in Whiteside to play C?

Lillard/Oladipo/Harkless/Cousins/Whiteside. Of couse that would mean renouncing pretty much every FA on the team except Harkless and maybe one other, which would probably be Crabbe. But Crabbe, Casspi/McLemore, Davis, Plumlee is not a bad bench. Olapido can play pg a little bit, but isn't nearly as good as McCollum, so you'd have to bring in a backup pg, maybe just keep Roberts.

 

[B-Roy]

Vucevic and Plumlee aren't much different advanced stats wise. Vucevic reminds me of a poor mans Z-Bo.

Vucevic has the same problem as other score first centers (ie. Monroe, Kanter). He can't defend a lick, and defense for the 5 is inarguably more important than for any other position.

You saw how Kanter was virtually unplayable against Golden State. He's just the wrong type of player we should be going after.

 

[Schilly]

You guys re undervaluing Vucevic. Defensively he and Mason are very similar. The big difference is Viucevic can hit a mid range jumper, something that if Mason could do we would have been a markedly better team this last season. Oladipo is probably a lateral move from CJ, maybe a little worse at this point, but I'm not sure he would seem worse in our system with Dame. Now for those of you wanting Sabonis here is your chance.

I love CJ on this team, one of may favorite Blazers in a long time, but a trade like this would be pretty hard to turn down, even though it's minimal initial gain.

 

[H.C.]

Vucevic and Plumlee aren't much different advanced stats wise. Vucevic reminds me of a poor mans Z-Bo.

I'm not a fan of Plumlee's defense.
I'm not even a fan of Plumlee as a starter. It was a necessity this year and he did well because he's a basketball player. But I highly doubt his ability to be the starting 4 or 5 OFT.

If I'm going to trade CJ regardless of the off-guard coming back. It's not going to be for Vucevic.




Some of this I find more entertaining than anything.
But it doesn't change the valid point.
Vucevic is a horrible defender who can't stay on the court while entering his 6th year in the league. Doubtful he'll make a jump defensively.
51 games in 11(lockout season)
77 games in 12
57 games in 13
74 games in 14
65 games in 15
That's a lot of games missed.

http://www.orlandopinstripedpost.co...efense-improving-still-an-issue-Orlando-Magic

It’s obvious that Nikola Vucevic is as offensively polished as anyone in this league, but the question still remains: can he play defense?
Defensive ability is one of the hardest things to statistically measure in basketball, and every team does it a little differently. Unlike on offense, where things can be ultimately boiled down to a make or miss – defense relies on the most minor of adjustments. Defense is not a pass/fail; it’s about how and when things happen, such as help, switching, handling screens, and double teams.
Furthermore, these factors are largely dependent on the other four players on the court. A great defensive team can hide a few slow or dull cogs, just as one great player cannot save an otherwise awful defensive team.

That being said, the easiest way to evaluate a player is how the team looks when they’re off and on the court.
Last year these stats didn’t look great for Vucevic, as the Magic were much worse defensively with him in the lineup. Opponents enjoyed a 3.1 percent higher shooting percentage, 3.1 percent more of their shots were assisted, and opposing teams’ offensive rating went up from 105.9 to 109.1 (+3.2).
Before we continue, let’s take a look at offensive and defensive rating. Offensive rating is basically the amount of points that a team scores per 100 possessions. Though it is an advanced stat, and there is a huge formula behind it, the concept is that simple. TheWarriors (shocker) lead the league with an offensive rating of 114.7.
Defensive rating is the opposite, factoring in how many points are given up in that same 100-possession sample. Ideally you want a high offensive rating and a low defensive rating. The San Antonio Spurs currently hold the lowest defensive rating in the league with a 97.9.
For context, the Magic as a team are 16th in defensive rating at 106.2, and 26th in offensive rating at 103.8.
A bad defensive player is a gift, and his lack of resistance can turn a sputtering offense into the Showtime Lakers – just by the fact these are individually the best basketball players in the world.
That seemingly tiny difference of +3.2 offensive rating that Vucevic added to opponents is enough to transform a poor offensive team like the Magic into the 9th ranked Celtics.
With opposing teams enjoying a 109.1 offensive rating while Vucevic was on the court last year, the Magic were effectively playing against the sixth-best offense in the league every night.
The good news is, he’s improving. Under the reign of Scott Skiles, poor defensive play has particularly been treated as unacceptable. Though the team still plays better defense without Vucevic, the margin is much closer this year. Opposing teams are shooting 1.6 percent better from the floor, getting 1.7 percent more of their shots from assists, and enjoying a 2.9 better offensive rating with the Montenegrin big man on the court.

Another stat that’s commonly used to determine a player’s defensive value is defensive box plus minus. Defensive box plus minus is similar, in that it uses 100 possessions to model a single player’s effect on games. This stat is helpful because it compares every player with the league average, meaning that anyone over a 0 rating is adding some value to their team.
There have been 17 big men with similar minutes per game to Vucevic since he entered the league. Among them, Joakim Noah is first with a DBPM of 4.8 (which is very good) and Jahlil Okafor is last with a rating of -1.9 (which is awful).
Vucevic fits in at 14th place (0.9), worse than Al Jefferson and Greg Monroe and half of former Magic big man Marcin Gortat's rating. It’s worth noting that many players never see this many minutes because of their inability to play defense, so Vucevic’s rating may actually be worse than it appears.

Finally, the most scrutinized part of Vucevic’s defensive game has been his inability to defend the pick and roll. According to NBA.com/stats, he is in the 38th percentile in defending the roll man, giving up a team-high 49.3% scoring frequency.
This is partially because he fouls at a five percent higher clip than the next highest Magic player.
None of these numbers are at an Enes Kanter or Jahlil Okafor level of awful, and nearly every team has a player that’s worse. However, Vucevic’s lot in life can be summarized by this:

Scott Skiles is a defensive minded coach with Nikola Vucevic as his center. Something’s got to give.

 

[Harry's Raincoat]

If we did proposed ORL trade (CJ + Aminu for Oladipo + Vucevic + #11 pick), we should jump at the offer.
CJ is slightly better than Oladipo but not defensively! We gain a legit center who is young, healthy, and on a good contract.
And we get a pick? Man....just pull that trigger.

PLUS...I think we maintain same cap room or improve it - so we could also sign Horford to join in the fun.

Lillard - Oladipo - Harkless - Horford - Vucevic
B/U PG - Crabbe - Henderson - Vonleh - Sabonis (#11?)