Would you trade Lillard?

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Carlos Boozer is one of the worst defensive players I have ever seen.

His career DRtg is 102. In 3 of his seasons with the Bulls, his DRtg was 95, 98, & 99.

If you go by the stats, he's one of the all time great defenders.

In Boozer's first season with the Bulls, they lost in the ECF to the super team Heat. Derrick Rose won the MVP with numbers comparable to Dame's. He was a sieve on defense, but his DRtg was 103 that season (Boozer's 99). Yet the team was 2nd in fewest points given up and first in team DRtg.

A great defensive scheme makes up for a player's weaknesses.

I absolutely see no reason to trade Dame. Better to fix the defensive scheme.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
It's not just "Lillard for Mudiay/Jokic" (for example), so much as it's

Lillard/CJ/Harkless/Aminu/Plumlee + Turner/Crabbe/Vonleh/Leonard for
CJ/Crabbe/Aminu/Plumlee/Jokic + Mudiay/Turner/Harkless/Leonard.

It's certainly arguable that the latter is a better, more balanced squad, and certainly better defensively.
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Balanced is putting Aminu and Plumlee at SF and PF with CJ as PG and a non-ball handler in Crabbe at SG? No thanks. That team would be bottom 10 offensively.

Rastapopoulos said:
That's bullshit. Put Michael Jordan on a team with a bunch of non-scorers and he'll be shut down. The other players have to be able at least to be a threat to make you pay for crowding the star player. It's no accident that it was often one of Jordan's "supporting cast" who hit the championship shots.

Not to mention that the rest of the players have to "run the offense" by setting screens etc. even if the star player does shoot more. It's like saying that the quarterback does it all and the offensive line contributes nothing.
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Setting screens is a peewee basketball concept. Any NBA player can "run an offense".

All things being even, of you surround MJ with average offense, they're going to be top 10. Even the worst center in the league can dunk on wide open looks created by someone like MJ. You still have to guard players because even the worst players in the league can hit certain shots of their wide open.

But if that fringe-NBA center gets taken to the low post because he's an awful defender, he's getting scored on. What could someone like Gary Payton or Bruce Bowen do about it?

Yes, you need role players, but a good offensive guard usually has a big factor on every offensive possession, whether it be breaking down the defense and kicking, spacing the floor, or creating for himself.. Good guards have an imprint on almost every possession.

But defensively, he can only guard one player, and if the offense is going through a frontcourt player that's scoring, the guard can't do shit about it. You're not gonna put CP3 on Lebron, even though CP3 is a great defender. However, CP3 can control and create great looks for himself and others on every offensive possession.

There's a reason Lillard and McCollum are more valuable than Tony Allen.
 
Denny Crane said:
I absolutely see no reason to trade Dame. Better to fix the defensive scheme.
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Exactly. Stotts has done this these past couple games. They shut down Boogie most of the game steer he went off for 55 last time.

Dame being out has no effect on that whatsoever.

They've hedged, trapped, and switched up pick n roll schemes, things I've been being for Stotts to do for years.

And look, it's fucking working.
 
I'll play devil's advocate. How many season(s) of losing will Lillard put up with, before he demands to be traded? It's inevitably happened with all our best players over the course of the franchise history, and we've never received equal compensation for each of their departures. So, maybe, this time learn from past lessons and...entertain the notion of this thread? Not saying that's how I feel, but I think the idea has merit on some level.
 
Drttimmy said:
I'll play devil's advocate. How many season(s) of losing will Lillard put up with, before he demands to be traded? It's inevitably happened with all our best players over the course of the franchise history, and we've never received equal compensation for each of their departures. So, maybe, this time learn from past lessons and...entertain the notion of this thread? Not saying that's how I feel, but I think the idea has merit on some level.
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I'd rather have a few more years with Dame and his leadership and potential than another 10-15 years of non playoff ball.

Nobody is going to trade straight up one on one for the guys we would do it for, so we would get a package in return.

Id be okay with doing that fir CJ, but not Dame. Not the leader of this team, not the face of our franchise, not the most loyal player we have possibly ever seen...
 
Hobbesarable said:
Just you wait until it's time to discuss international draft prospects. Then Rasta be like

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You mean like Antetocounmpo, Gobert, Porzingis, Jokic, Embiid, Ben Simmons? Bums!

What I don't get, is how come Fez doesn't get this "humor"? He actually knows about these guys. I just know more than YOU guys, which doesn't require much.
 
Here's a question for you, while we're talking "most loyal": who's the best Blazers player who never played a minute for any other NBA team (whose career is now over)?
 
Rastapopoulos said:
Here's a question for you, while we're talking "most loyal": who's the best Blazers player who never played a minute for any other NBA team (whose career is now over)?
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Probably need a list, which I bet is pretty short. However, I'm preliminarily putting Geoff Petrie at the top of that list.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
Probably need a list, which I bet is pretty short. However, I'm preliminarily putting Geoff Petrie at the top of that list.
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All right BESIDES Petrie. (And he sort of doesn't count because he was a Hawk when his career ended, even if he didn't play a game for them. (Not a bad trade for the Blazers that, as it got them Maurice Lucas.) So perhaps I should amend my question to "was never on the roster of any other NBA team.")
 
Rastapopoulos said:
All right BESIDES Petrie. (And he sort of doesn't count because he was a Hawk when his career ended, even if he didn't play a game for them. (Not a bad trade for the Blazers that, as it got them Maurice Lucas.) So perhaps I should amend my question to "was never on the roster of any other NBA team.")
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Again, probably need a list of players who qualify (especially since you're changing the rules on us after I come up with the best possible answer). Since it's your question, I think that it's incumbent upon you to provide. Sadly, we have nobody on the Wikipedia list of players who've spent their entire careers with one franchise.

This article says Larry Steele would be the choice.
 
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Ha Seung-jin!
Actually, it has to be Oden, right?
 
Rastapopoulos said:
Hmm. That's incomplete then. (And I notice the list of current players starts at 7 seasons, even though it doesn't explicitly say that, otherwise Lillard would be on there, of course (but also people like Pat Connaughton).)
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Yes, 10+ seasons for the main list, and 7+ for the active list, otherwise the lists would be massive.

KeepOnRollin said:
Arvydas Sabonis
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Yeah, probably a better choice than Steele. Good call.
 
Rastapopoulos said:
You mean... the games that Lillard didn't play in?
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Have you not been watching? Have you not noticed?

The bigs have been hedging or trapping the pick n roll a ton these past 2 games and it worked.

This defense is better for Lillard when he returns. Why? Because Lillard struggles to get through screens quickly. How is this a factor in different pick n roll schemes?

Well, when sagging the big man and "icing" the pick n roll, it's required that the on-ball defender stay attached to the ball handlers hip throughout the screen, or else the ball-handler will get too much space and be able to manipulate the big at will. This pick n roll coverage does not work because
1.) Lillard struggles to get through screens, and isn't able to stay attached, thus giving the ball-handler too much space.
2.) Our bigs aren't big or athletic enough to both contest mid-range jumpers and stop the ball-handler from getting to the rim.

HOWEVER, a hedge is designed as a road-block for the ball-handler, stopping his progress, and giving the on-ball defender time to get back to his man. Once the on-ball defender is almost in front, the hedger returns to his man by running between the ball-handler and the roll man, taking away the passing lane.

This defense would help Lillard out a lot, and suddenly Lillards biggest defensive weakness is no longer a factor. Plus, our bigs are better equipped to hedge then to sag, and we've seen this the past 2 games.

This is stuff I've been saying for 2 years and the continuing scheme of icing the pick n roll has been my number one problem with Stotts as a coach. Switch it up, and we do better. Last year, we got back in that OKC game where Lillard went off by getting stops because we were hedging the pick n roll. We won a game in the second half earlier this year because Stotts made an adjustment. Now, we held the Raptors to 95 points and Kings to 89 points with that scheme. Lillard not playing is a small factor in the defensive success we've had the past two games. The main factor is how we're playing the pick n roll.
 
Joel Freeland and Victor Claver qualify for only playing for the Blazers....
 
Freeland's body seems to have broken down. But he made oodles of money first, so there's that.
 
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