WTF is going on with Harkless

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HCP said:
He’s not a shooter or scorer. He’s a garbage/scrapping kind of guy. Defender/hustle kind of guy. What is he, the 4th option out there? He’s doing about whats expected in my eyes. Curious around the league, what the 4th option on teams number’s look like.
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He's no Klay Thompson.
 
Harkless' PER is 2/3 of last year's. The only team change is that Ed Davis is back and Aminu is gone. Same diff.
 
yuyuza1 said:
Is this a textbook case of a guy getting paid and completely stagnating in his development?

Getting absolutely nothing from him, and he's not even that engaged defensively. Hurd on the broadcast mentioned how Dame has been trying to look for him on offense apparently in an effort to keep him in the game. But I don't see it manifesting anywhere. He's always been inconsistent and appears apathetic, yet this is bad even for him.

Averaging just 7 pts, 4 rebs in 28 mins and his shot from everywhere is trash.

We need a replacement soon-- playing CJ at SF is not the solution.
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I was at the game last night and I was mentioning this to my buddy that Moe harkless does not have a go to move on offense. Is jab step is mediocre. His handles are decent but not enough to get around a Defender. The only way he scores is from cuts to the basket, fast breaks and on wide-open 3s. He's been missing those as of late. I'm very disappointed in his play for this entire season and really thought this was going to be his breakout year.
 
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yuyuza1 said:
Or Moe from last year.
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Me, too (although I'd prefer someone even better)

Last year, Mo had a career year, averaging career highs in ppg, 3FG% and most other categories. Late in the season, I complied a quick and dirty spreadsheet of where Mo ranked compared to other starting small forwards and came to the conclusion that career best Mo was pretty much about as average as you can get for a starting NBA small forward. I used all his raw per game averages and shooting percentages, as well as several advanced stats. In almost all cases, he ranked in the 13th to 19th range (except for FT shooting where he was 29th). An unweighted average of all his rankings showed him to be the 16th best starting SF in the league (I only included starting small forwards, but had I included all SFs, some teams would have had two SFs better than Mo). He wasn't great at anything, but didn't really suck at anything other than FT shooting.

I'm not going to waste my time compiling a similar spreadsheet after just 14 games, but based on where he ranked last year, and how much worse he is in most statistical categories, I am confident that if I did, Mo would easily be among the bottom five starting small forwards so far this season. That's simply not getting the job done. Last year power forward was our weakest position. This year, so far, thanks to Mo's uninspired play, SF is now our weakest position.

BNM
 
The problem is who takes him? Who wants a wing that cannot shoot the ball in todays NBA? His contract is not terrible for his previous season performance, but if we want to trade him then teams will be looking what he is doing this year and that doesn't look good. He is incredibly frustrating. Maybe we can trade him for Mirotic that wants out? Chicago loves guys that cannot shoot the ball. Mirotic has a team option so if it doesn't work out at least we clear 10M and it's easier to extend Nurkic as we save tax.
 
Noah does so many other things that I would keep him for now. Mo has been so up and down throughout his career, disappearing from one night to the next. I would love to see him be a scrappy, on the floor diving for loose balls guy like Noah, but it's just rare to see him actually do it. He's fine coming off the bench, because that's what you expect from someone off the bench. We need an upgrade at this position. Jake the snake may deserve a shot, otherwise let ET have it or make a trade.
 
Serious Question: Why is our defense so good this year?

Someone in another thread thought that Dame was working harder on the defensive end this year, and this in part accounted for some perceived lower performance on the offensive end.

Maybe this is why Mo hasn't been playing so well on the offensive end, either? I'm not advocating, I'm openly wondering.

I don't want to give up on Mo only to find out he was the one holding our defense together.
 
Wizard Mentor said:
Serious Question: Why is our defense so good this year?

Someone in another thread thought that Dame was working harder on the defensive end this year, and this in part accounted for some perceived lower performance on the offensive end.

Maybe this is why Mo hasn't been playing so well on the offensive end, either? I'm not advocating, I'm openly wondering.

I don't want to give up on Mo only to find out he was the one holding our defense together.
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Don’t worry, he’s not.
 
tester551 said:
I'd be fine with that, but we'd need to get some salary relief too. Either Meyers or Turner would need to be in the trade.
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Uh, their salaries are about even. Why would we need salary relief in order to upgrade our team?
 
BonesJones said:
Uh, their salaries are about even. Why would we need salary relief in order to upgrade our team?
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Because this summer Nurk is due a big payday and our only expiring contract of any significance is Ed Davis at about 7 mil, so if we don't lower salary the tax hit next yr could be pretty damn big - do ya think PA would want to pay that for an average team? My guess is he would not but only he really knows
 
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BonesJones said:
Uh, their salaries are about even. Why would we need salary relief in order to upgrade our team?
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Lee & Harkless are comparable in my eyes.

Lee makes about 15% more than Hark & is also much older.
Since NY was rumored to really like Hark - Why not leverage it to unload salary?
 
Mo Harkless and Ed Davis to NYK for Courtney Lee and Kyle O'Quinn, who says no and why?

Lee makes a little more than Mo and is a MUCH better 3pt shooter, but the real reason NYK does this is age. Lee is seven and a half years older than Mo.

BNM
 
He’s just not good. He never has been really and never will be
 
I still think he's much better. Maybe he wanted to go to NY (he really likes the city fo sure). Maybe it's going as far as Olshey signed Mayers first:) Or maybe he's holding D together in this team.
Personally I think he's not even IN the team.
nets1.png
 
Harkless is a very good player but he's an energy player, he needs energy, he brings energy, his level of energy is deciding his level of play, such a player needs to come of the bench. This is not meant as a knock against him, he could be very valuable if he plays the right role for him. To me the right role for him is as the backup SF and possibly playing sporadic minutes as a small ball 4 (which is where he could be the most effective, IMO, but we have too many big men as it is). I wouldn't want to trade him at all, I want him to be benched not because I think he's not a very good player, but because in the right role he can do even better and the team can do even better
 
And the starting five doesn't always has to be the closing 5, him coming of the bench doesn't mean he can't be on the floor in crunch time if he plays a good game or if the coach thinks he's the better fit, but I think the starting small forward should be Turner
 
Blazer4ever said:
Harkless is a very good player but he's an energy player, he needs energy, he brings energy, his level of energy is deciding his level of play, such a player needs to come of the bench. This is not meant as a knock against him, he could be very valuable if he plays the right role for him. To me the right role for him is as the backup SF and possibly playing sporadic minutes as a small ball 4 (which is where he could be the most effective, IMO, but we have too many big men as it is). I wouldn't want to trade him at all, I want him to be benched not because I think he's not a very good player, but because in the right role he can do even better and the team can do even better
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It is the right role for Harkless, but it's also the right role for Turner. We just can't bring Harkless off the bench because we have no one to start.

Still hoping the Magic falter and we somehow land Fournier for Meyers, Davis, and a couple 1sts.
 
BonesJones said:
It is the right role for Harkless, but it's also the right role for Turner. We just can't bring Harkless off the bench because we have no one to start.

Still hoping the Magic falter and we somehow land Fournier for Meyers, Davis, and a couple 1sts.
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I've never really been a fan of Fournier, personally. I think it is just because he has a punchable face though. Or maybe kissable, in CJs opinion...
 
Among out top 8 PER players, the top 7 of them are in the most recent iteration of the main rotation (assuming Aminu is playing): Dame, Shabazz, CJ, Meyers, Aminu, Davis, Nurkic. Harkless is 12th on the team in PER, but 3rd on the team in minutes played. The 8th best PER on the team is the player who IMHO can slot in and replace Harkless: Jake Layman. Then you have your top 9 players playing in the 9-man rotation (Noah is the 9th best PER on the team).

Free Layman! Sit Harkless and let him learn or perish.
 
If keeping moe, kept us from getting Melo....

He needs to figure it out soon.
 
Today would you do the deal to take Ryan Andersons contract for Moe and Meyers? It's funny 2 or 3 months ago i would have say never ever to that deal but today’s i would probably do it. Meyers is trash and Moe is a big dissapointment so far, his d is good but on Offense he is useless while anderson plays really good for the rockets and is a high class shooter, something what we need
 
Labinot41 said:
Today would you do the deal to take Ryan Andersons contract for Moe and Meyers? It's funny 2 or 3 months ago i would have say never ever to that deal but today’s i would probably do it. Meyers is trash and Moe is a big dissapointment so far, his d is good but on Offense he is useless while anderson plays really good for the rockets and is a high class shooter, something what we need
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Still wouldn't personally and I would love to move Meyers.
 
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