Wtf is wrong with Bill Walton?

[Tince]

He had more talent and ability than Garnett. He's just weak between the ears.

Never heard anyone who played with Sheed say anything short of him being a great teammate and having a very high basketball IQ. Biggest knock I've heard from his teammates/coaches was that he didn't want to take big shots late in the game.

This appears to be something personal. I'm guessing Walton said something about Sheed hurting his team getting techs when he was working for NBC and Sheed took offense to it.

 

[Phatguysrule]

Agree with this. I see people say he was the best player on those Pistons championship teams, but, truly, I thought he was their fifth guy. I'm dumbfounded when I read people write he was their best player or the star of the Blazers.

He was always a threat that the other team had to respect, because his overall athletic ability and skills were in the top percentile and he could do things few other players could do. For one play, he was a guy that was beneficial to have. But I didn't think he played hard or got anywhere close to the full extent out of his talent, and I think his sourness and immaturity was a detriment to several teams on which he played. That Pistons team had so many leader-type personalities that he couldn't take them down.

Yep. If Pip and Smith would have been here before Sheed it might have been different.

He wasn't ever going to respect Sabonis.

 

[Phatguysrule]

Never heard anyone who played with Sheed say anything short of him being a great teammate and having a very high basketball IQ.

Biggest knock I've heard from his teammates/coaches was that he didn't want to take big shots late in the game.

Most talented guy in the league wants to fade in big moments and sabotage the team with refs.

Sheed was a little boy. He's not dumb. He's just immature and weak minded.

 

[PCmor7]

Never heard anyone who played with Sheed say anything short of him being a great teammate and having a very high basketball IQ. Biggest knock I've heard from his teammates/coaches was that he didn't want to take big shots late in the game.

This appears to be something personal. I'm guessing Walton said something about Sheed hurting his team getting techs when he was working for NBC and Sheed took offense to it.

So Rasheed goes and says publicly that Walton wasn't the man at UCLA?

I mean, that's a really, really weird way to shoot on someone with whom you have beef? He's making himself look like he has no concept of good basketball in response to feeling slighted by something one of the best basketball players of all-time said about him.

That's the definition of lacking composure. Which, if you ever watched Rasheed play, kind of fits.

 

[PCmor7]

"Hey, he said something and I feel disrespected, so I'm going to rip my own face off to prove him wrong."

 

[PCmor7]

Most talented guy in the league wants to fade in big moments and sabotage the team with refs.

Sheed was a little boy. He's not dumb. He's just immature and weak minded.

Lack of self-control.

I coached a kid who didn't get it like this. Kid scored almost 2,000 points in high school. Like Sheed, just was a phenom. Long. Strong. Great natural touch.

We played an awful team once that had no one to match up with him, so in the 2Q they put in a football player who was 6 inches shorter just to try to muscle him around and make him uncomfortable. Kid might have averaged 2 ppg. Our kid averaged 20.

Within minutes of the football player coming in, they throw punches and both get tossed. We lose a game to a team we normally beat by 30 or more.

I said something to our guy after the game. He says he's not ever going to let someone get the better of him like that, that he's a man and has pride and he's not going to get pushed around. Took a minute until he started to put things together when I explained to him the stiff wasn't trying to beat him physically, he was trying to beat him mentally, and you lost because you didn't recognize it, didn't keep your cool and got tossed when you could have scored 30 and looked at him and pointed to the scoreboard at the end. "You didn't understand the game he was playing. He got you playing his game. You got tossed. He won."

That's Rasheed in a nutshell. All ego. No emotional balance or understanding of mental toughness. Just react, react, react. Never think.

 

[Tince]

So Rasheed goes and says publicly that Walton wasn't the man at UCLA?

I mean, that's a really, really weird way to shoot on someone with whom you have beef? He's making himself look like he has no concept of good basketball in response to feeling slighted by something one of the best basketball players of all-time said about him.

That's the definition of lacking composure. Which, if you ever watched Rasheed play, kind of fits.

When people get their feelings hurt, they often try to say things to hurt that person back. I think what Sheed said about Walton was factually incorrect and immature.

I don't think it makes him "weak between the ears" though. Insecure maybe?

 

[jlprk]

Canzano was the only so-called witness to the Boom Boom story. So we took it with a grain of salt. Sheed knew that Canzano was pretending to be friendly, chasing Sheed around the gym to write an overstatement gotcha. A week after the article sold papers, Canzano wrote his new idea, that the basketball had hit Boom Boom in the groin. That sold more papers. Long before, the Oregonian had cemented its reputation as the town opponent of everything Blazers.
====
When Walton wrote regular articles as a journalist (ESPN or NBA.com, I forgot), he wrote a piece critical of Rasheed's behavior. Apparently, Sheed had been rude to him. This was when every local reporter hated Wallace. When Walton approached, Sheed probably saw Walton as just another white devil, and was rude.

I was surprised that Walton criticized Wallace, because the local Sheed enemies were the same conservatives who had hated Bill in the late 70s. I thought Walton might be understanding of young Wallace, but no. 20 years later, Sheed hasn't forgotten his enemies and their biting articles, and he stated his opinion of Walton. Imagine what he'd say about his much greater enemy, the Oregonian.

 

[Phatguysrule]

When people get their feelings hurt, they often try to say things to hurt that person back. I think what Sheed said about Walton was factually incorrect and immature.

I don't think it makes him "weak between the ears" though. Insecure maybe?

That instance alone doesn't. It's just another example of it, IMO.

 

[STOMP]

Sheed hates the Blazers now. The team that paid him a lot and got him into the playoffs. What a poser

Got him into the playoffs and hates the Blazers now? Lol, whatever. Acquired for jack shit, Sheed was a 2 time All Star for Portland when no one else was. He was the best player on a great Blazer team that many of us enjoyed quite a bit. He did some stupid stuff in his 20s, heck I sure did too. He's still saying outrageous stuff, whatever... I get as worked up over his thoughts as I do Walton's, which is not at all

It seems some follow sports at least in part because it gives them an acceptable forum to get their hate on. It's been 20+ years since he played here and today you're getting worked up over an immature prank of heaving a ball that hit Ruben in the boumtje-boumtjes... good grief dude

STOMP

 

[PCmor7]

When people get their feelings hurt, they often try to say things to hurt that person back. I think what Sheed said about Walton was factually incorrect and immature.

I don't think it makes him "weak between the ears" though. Insecure maybe?

"Weak between the ears" wasn't the term I used. Insecure, certainly. Lacking vision, obviously.

However, combine this with incidents like the towel in the face to Sabonis, the ball to Ruben's groin, the myriad of technicals, the petulance of "both teams played hard," and you see a pattern that might have started with immaturity and goes well beyond it.

Look, I'm not saying there aren't reasons he acted like a child when he was in his 30s. I'm not saying there were either. Neither of us knows that. What we do know is he continued to act this way throughout his career and appears to continue to act that way, and I think, no matter how big a fan of Rasheed you might be, excusing such behavior doesn't work. He might in fact act that way because growing up he had too many people that didn't tell him to stop it just because he was a good athlete.

 

[PCmor7]

And here's the bottom line, though.

If the narrative that Wallace is a bad guy or an immature guy, you know the way he reacts to stuff sure supports the narrative.

I doubt Bill Walton lost a wink of sleep over what Wallace thought about him. I bet it had no impact whatsoever on what Walton thought about Rasheed as player, either.

Wallace, meanwhile, goes off and acts exactly like people would expect someone who's always been depicted as acting that way would act.

At some point, you have to at least give that Rasheed Wallace is one of his own enemies. If Bill Walton and the Oregonian are holding the metaphorical gun, Rasheed's the depot handing them boxes of ammunition.

 

[julius]

And here's the bottom line, though.

If the narrative that Wallace is a bad guy or an immature guy, you know the way he reacts to stuff sure supports the narrative.

I doubt Bill Walton lost a wink of sleep over what Wallace thought about him. I bet it had no impact whatsoever on what Walton thought about Rasheed as player, either.

Wallace, meanwhile, goes off and acts exactly like people would expect someone who's always been depicted as acting that way would act.

At some point, you have to at least give that Rasheed Wallace is one of his own enemies. If Bill Walton and the Oregonian are holding the metaphorical gun, Rasheed's the depot handing them boxes of ammunition.

Rasheed is his own worst enemy, agreed 100%.

And Rasheed knows that controversy creates interest for his podcast with Bonzi (or other things he does). Not knocking him for that, it's smart business.

As for what Wallace thinks of Bill, I think it's 99% based on the time when Bill implied that Bonzi and Rasheed were bad guys for doing the same shit he did (read: he thinks bill is a hypocrite). I totally get why he says that, because on the surface it does come off as though Bill is a massive one. But Bill is also a showman and a performance act. Rasheed shouldn't take anything he says seriously (same with most of what Sheed says, tbh).

That said, even spite of Bills injuries, he was at one time considered one of the best players to ever play college ball. That was never the case for Rasheed.

In the long run, it's just not a good look for Sheed (or Bill).

 

[Tince]

Kind of ironic that both Rasheed and Walton got labels placed on them in Portland regarding their maturity, choices off the court, etc.

 

[kjironman1]

Kind of ironic that both Rasheed and Walton got labels placed on them in Portland regarding their maturity, choices off the court, etc.

Happens to every player in every city that has a team. See Memphis or Philadelphia if you would like some examples.

 

[Tince]

Happens to every player in every city that has a team. See Memphis or Philadelphia if you would like some examples.

Every player in every city that has a team gets labeled for their maturity and choices off the court? Thybulle, Camara, and Reath have been labeled for those things?

 

[barfo]

Young men aren't generally known for their maturity and wise choices.

I'm sure every poster here is/was an exception, of course.

barfo

 

[Phatguysrule]

Rasheed is his own worst enemy, agreed 100%.

And Rasheed knows that controversy creates interest for his podcast with Bonzi (or other things he does). Not knocking him for that, it's smart business.

As for what Wallace thinks of Bill, I think it's 99% based on the time when Bill implied that Bonzi and Rasheed were bad guys for doing the same shit he did (read: he thinks bill is a hypocrite). I totally get why he says that, because on the surface it does come off as though Bill is a massive one. But Bill is also a showman and a performance act. Rasheed shouldn't take anything he says seriously (same with most of what Sheed says, tbh).

That said, even spite of Bills injuries, he was at one time considered one of the best players to ever play college ball. That was never the case for Rasheed.

In the long run, it's just not a good look for Sheed (or Bill).

It's called Big Game Hunting. It's when little people attack giants for their own selfish and petty interests.

 

[Phatguysrule]

Kind of ironic that both Rasheed and Walton got labels placed on them in Portland regarding their maturity, choices off the court, etc.

Walton was bitter and went through a very tough time beyond his control. He's mostly beloved in Portland now.

And Wallace is jealous of that, as far as I can tell.

 

[BlazerWookee]

Walton was bitter and went through a very tough time beyond his control. He's mostly beloved in Portland now.

And Wallace is jealous of that, as far as I can tell.

Beyond his control? A steak and a glass of milk once in a while would have gone a long way, IMHO...

 

[Tince]

Walton was bitter and went through a very tough time beyond his control. He's mostly beloved in Portland now.

And Wallace is jealous of that, as far as I can tell.

Can't speak on Wallace being jealous, but it's been great to see Walton's reputation improve over the years. It feels to me that Sheed's reputation in Portland has also improved as time has passed.

Clips like this one about Walton are unlikely to help Sheed's reputation though.

 

[kjironman1]

Every player in every city that has a team gets labeled for their maturity and choices off the court? Thybulle, Camara, and Reath have been labeled for those things?

Sure . Certainly to this point Thybulle has been the consistent professional and from what I’ve seen very mature. Camara and Reath have been around 30 games but to this point the same.
A good label is just as important as a bad one.
To this point seems Scoot is a pretty mature young man as well.

 

[julius]

Beyond his control? A steak and a glass of milk once in a while would have gone a long way, IMHO...

Cept that it wouldn't have made a difference.

 

[riverman]

I know Bill Walton a bit and he's been around a few times in my life to chat with. He's spacey at times and brilliant at times. I like the guy. I loved Sheed's game and I knew he was right about ref's throwing games long before Donaghy was exposed....later on Donaghy admitted it. Watching Shaq elbow him in the throat on his way to a dunk would end up with Sha q getting free throws I know made him bitter. I always thought Sheed had Dennis Rodman syndrome, tagged as the league's tech poster boy. Off the court I know nothing about Sheed but people both diss his pranks but praise his community work. He never bothered me much but Walton calling games early on made me want to tear my hair out. He was a very fickle analyst although I think he's been much better at college games than the NBA with a mike.

 

[Tince]

Sure . Certainly to this point Thybulle has been the consistent professional and from what I’ve seen very mature. Camara and Reath have been around 30 games but to this point the same.
A good label is just as important as a bad one.
To this point seems Scoot is a pretty mature young man as well.

I feel like most players don't get labeled for their maturity either way, certainly nothing like Walton or Sheed did. I don't recall any discussions on this board about the personal maturity of Kent Bazemore, Plumlee, Grant, Ant, etc.

 

[kjironman1]

I feel like most players don't get labeled for their maturity either way, certainly nothing like Walton or Sheed did. I don't recall any discussions on this board about the personal maturity of Kent Bazemore, Plumlee, Grant, Ant, etc.

You’ve never heard consummate professional or great locker room guy or extremely hard worker or great leader? Aren’t those labels about maturity?

 

[Tince]

You’ve never heard consummate professional or great locker room guy or extremely hard worker or great leader? Aren’t those labels about maturity?

I don't believe those players were labeled as such, no... Was it maybe mentioned a time or two? Possibly. Very different than it being a major talking point as those labels were for Walton or Sheed.

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

He had more talent and ability than Garnett. He's just weak between the ears.

it was between the ears but it wasn’t a weakness. he was just too cool for school. wasn’t selfish. didn’t want to be a star. and frankly, he said to a bunch of in hs, he wasn’t gonna bust his ass any harder for the white man than he already was. i think he enjoyed being that slacker-type that could kill ya at any second without effort. I genuinely believe. I genuinely believe he’s a good dude and wasn’t motivated by the fame and attention, but he enjoyed it. he was the smart kid in class that tried to play it like he good a mix of b’s, c’s, and d’s and was most comfortable in his skin that way.

 

[Phatguysrule]

it was between the ears but it wasn’t a weakness. he was just too cool for school. wasn’t selfish. didn’t want to be a star. and frankly, he said to a bunch of in hs, he wasn’t gonna bust his ass any harder for the white man than he already was. i think he enjoyed being that slacker-type that could kill ya at any second without effort. I genuinely believe. I genuinely believe he’s a good dude and wasn’t motivated by the fame and attention, but he enjoyed it. he was the smart kid in class that tried to play it like he good a mix of b’s, c’s, and d’s and was most comfortable in his skin that way.

I get that it's all those things. But those things hurt the team. It was a weakness, not only for him, but for the team. It doesn't matter if he wanted that. He was that.

His problem with the white man caused problems with Sabonis. Which killed that team.

All of those things you said. All of those reasons. They were a weakness. And they are the biggest reasons we didn't win a championship or two.

He would rather lose his way than do what it took to actually win.

So we lost.

At least, from my perspective.

 

[kjironman1]

I don't believe those players were labeled as such, no... Was it maybe mentioned a time or two? Possibly. Very different than it being a major talking point as those labels were for Walton or Sheed.

Malcom Brogdon has a label. He has never been a major talking point in the media. That is my point. Scoot is starting to build whatever teams/players/coaches/fans will think about him when his name is brought up.
Bringing up a guy like Reath seems trivial at best but he indeed is also making his name and what type of player he will be "labeled" as. If he goes out and starts kicking guys in the nards and throwing elbows he will be labeled as "Dirty". If he starts falling all over the court trying to draw fouls he will be labeled as a "Flopper".