Game Thread Yankees vs. Tigers 6/19/15 7:05PM

[yankeesince59]

...certain PEDs can increase muscle mass, and anyone who thinks more muscle does not help hit the ball further, is not only impractical but also misinformed.

 

[Messiah717]

...certain PEDs can increase muscle mass, and anyone who thinks more muscle does not help hit the ball further, is not only impractical but also misinformed.

While you would assume so taking steroids doesn't automatically equate to increased strength.

 

[Rick2583]

It also doesn't help hand / eye coordination. You still have to be able to hit the ball.

 

[yankeesince59]

While you would assume so taking steroids doesn't automatically equate to increased strength.

..."certain PEDS can increase muscle mass..."

 

[Messiah717]

It also doesn't help hand / eye coordination. You still have to be able to hit the ball.

That's where the talent comes into play. Not everyone can do what these guys do. Arod would've still been great without them but you don't know if he would have immortal numbers.

 

[Messiah717]

Yes, they can increase muscle mass if you then work at it and eat properly.

 

[yankeesince59]

Yes, they can increase muscle mass if you then work at it and eat properly.

...yup, which is why I said "can". ...Big Mac, Bonds, Sosa, et al, were not doing them for nothing

 

[yankeesince59]

That's where the talent comes into play. Not everyone can do what these guys do. Arod would've still been great without them but you don't know if he would have immortal numbers.

...yup, and that's the rub...ARod has lied multiple times about when he started and stopped (supposedly) taking PEDS...so there's no way of knowing with any degree of certainty as to how much of his numbers are tainted...that's the price he and the others will pay.

 

[Messiah717]

...yup, which is why I said "can". ...Big Mac, Bonds, Sosa, et al, were not doing them for nothing

Clearly Sosa wanted to turn white.

 

[Rick2583]

...yup, which is why I said "can". ...Big Mac, Bonds, Sosa, et al, were not doing them for nothing

I follow your point Ron but IMO you can't put Bonds in the same company as guys like Sosa & McGwire. I think guys like A-Rod, Bonds, Griffey jr. were just VERY talented players that didn't need the shit. They were naturals. They just got greedy.

 

[Messiah717]

I follow your point Ron but IMO you can't put Bonds in the same company as guys like Sosa & McGwire. I think guys like A-Rod, Bonds, Griffey jr. were just VERY talented players that didn't need the shit. They were naturals. They just got greedy.

McGwire is highly overrated thanks to steroid use.

 

[Rick2583]

McGwire is highly overrated thanks to steroid use.

As was Sosa.

 

[yankeesince59]

I follow your point Ron but IMO you can't put Bonds in the same company as guys like Sosa & McGwire. I think guys like A-Rod, Bonds, Griffey jr. were just VERY talented players that didn't need the shit. They were naturals. They just got greedy.

...doesn't matter IMO, Bonds was just as dirty...and I also don't agree with the "he was a HOFer before roids"...I don't agree with separating the two. They are all inclusive.

...to me, it's like giving Bernie Madoff a pass because he was legit at one time. It still does not excuse or offset what happened near the end.

 

[Messiah717]

Bonds head grew quite large. Certain signs of HGH use there.

 

[Rick2583]

...doesn't matter IMO, Bonds was just as dirty...and I also don't agree with the "he was a HOFer before roids"...I don't agree with separating the two. They are all inclusive.

...to me, it's like giving Bernie Madoff a pass because he was legit at one time. It still does not excuse or offset what happened near the end.

I'm not trying to excuse it just saying that guys like Bonds & A-Rod didn't need to cheat because they would have in all likelihood ended up with great career numbers.

 

[Pastafazul]

..."certain PEDS can increase muscle mass..."

big mac went all out, android from his brother... palmeiro used different form cause you could not tell, big mac would have never lasted in bigs unless he did what he did, and raffy just did it to keep up

 

[Rick2583]

big mac went all out, android from his brother... palmeiro used different form cause you could not tell, big mac would have never lasted in bigs unless he did what he did, and raffy just did it to keep up

I think the same could be said for Juan Gonzalez & many also thought Albert Belle. 2 very angry dudes.

 

[Pastafazul]

I think the same could be said for Juan Gonzalez & many also thought Albert Belle. 2 very angry dudes.

so true, so many doubts.. all i have to say is this, the only guys i played on the same field with... edgar, walker, and clark, are the only true blue pure players thats had it all imo

 

[yankeesince59]

I'm not trying to excuse it just saying that guys like Bonds & A-Rod didn't need to cheat because they would have in all likelihood ended up with great career numbers.

...I know what you're saying about them not needing to cheat, but the fact remains that they did. And the HOF voters will exercise their voting rights accordingly.

 

[Pastafazul]

...I know what you're saying about them not needing to cheat, but the fact remains that they did. And the HOF voters will exercise their voting rights accordingly.

they had to cheat, very foolish imo, cause it will catch up to some of them health wise later on, but when you have a brady anderson.. not another word needs to be said

 

[Rick2583]

Brady Anderson 1995 (16 HRs), 1996 (50 HRs) = +34

Sammy Sosa 1997 (36 HRs), 1998 (66 HRs) = +30

Kevin Mitchell 1988 (19 HRs), 1989 (47 HRs) = +28

Kirby Puckett 1985 (4 HRs), 1986 (31 HRs) = +27

Luis Gonzalez 2000 (31 HRs), 2001 (57 HRs) = +26

Adrian Beltre 2003 (23 HRs), 2004 (48 HRs) = +25

And of course there is Jose Bautista who never hit more than 15 HRs with over 500 ABs 2007 (15 HRs), 2010 (54 HRs) = +39