You want a physicist to speak at your funeral.

[TripTango]

I don't think that many people would take solace in that, personally. It's too abstract and random and inhuman.

Ed O.

Google suggests otherwise.

http://www.parentingbeyondbelief.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=58



Obviously this isn't something anyone in their right mind would say about a religious individual, but some of the rest of us (yourself and MARIS excluded, of course) find it moving and meaningful.

 

[Masbee]

Google suggests otherwise.

http://www.parentingbeyondbelief.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=58



Obviously this isn't something anyone in their right mind would say about a religious individual, but some of the rest of us (yourself and MARIS excluded, of course) find it moving and meaningful.

What are your links supposed to be proof of?

I don't get it.

Look, most people don't like the idea that they are a teeny, tiny, microscopic, barely there spec of nothingness in the vast universe. They generally prefer to cling to spiritual and religious ideas that give them something to latch onto that gives them the hope of more after death or being remembered when they are gone.

Tell them they are dust in the wind blowing all over here there and everywhere (in silly, flowery geek-speak) in order to convince them they are a "part of it all" and you will not have many takers, I can assure you.

 

[TripTango]

What are your links supposed to be proof of?

I don't get it.

Look, most people don't like the idea that they are a teeny, tiny, microscopic, barely there spec of nothingness in the vast universe. They generally prefer to cling to spiritual and religious ideas that give them something to latch onto that gives them the hope of more after death or being remembered when they are gone.

Tell them they are dust in the wind blowing all over here there and everywhere (in silly, flowery geek-speak) in order to convince them they are a "part of it all" and you will not have many takers, I can assure you.

The links are from Google's top ten hits, and show comments from a lot of people who really like that piece, many of whom express a desire to have it read at their funeral. In other words, they show a lot of "takers".

 

[julius]

I don't care who speaks at my funeral. I'll be dead.

 

[Ed O]

Obviously this isn't something anyone in their right mind would say about a religious individual, but some of the rest of us (yourself and MARIS excluded, of course) find it moving and meaningful.

#1: Why do you keep trying to tell me what I think and believe? You're looking a bit silly by doing so, because I can tell you you're wrong every time. Either speak more generally or talk about what I'm posting, not what you think I think.

#2: What percentage of the population would be considered a "religious individual"? And what percentage of the people at the funeral would be that? I think that it would depress the shit out of a lot of people, and if one thinks that it would be inappropriate for a religious individual, then one would seem to agree with me.

Ed O.

 

[Ed O]

I don't care who speaks at my funeral. I'll be dead.

I want my funeral to be beneficial to the people who care enough to show up.

Ed O.

 

[TripTango]

#1: Why do you keep trying to tell me what I think and believe? You're looking a bit silly by doing so, because I can tell you you're wrong every time. Either speak more generally or talk about what I'm posting, not what you think I think.

Ok. Let's look at what you have posted:

I took it as mockery, as well. I think most people would hear that and think that it's saying what we are is irrelevant in the grand scheme of things, and while that might be true, a funeral is not really the time to be talking about the dead person's irrelevance.

It's too abstract and random and inhuman.

And here's what I said:

...some of the rest of us (yourself and MARIS excluded, of course) find it moving and meaningful.

I'm using your words, Ed. Your words. Please, PLEASE tell me how I am misreading them. Why is it silly to conclude that you DID NOT find the piece "moving and meaningful" based on your quotes above?

#2: What percentage of the population would be considered a "religious individual"? And what percentage of the people at the funeral would be that? I think that it would depress the shit out of a lot of people, and if one thinks that it would be inappropriate for a religious individual, then one would seem to agree with me.

I said that it would be inappropriate to say something like ABOUT a religious individual, just as it would be inappropriate to quote Genesis at the memorial of an atheist, no matter how many Christians were in attendance. And that's great that you think it would depress a lot of people. I don't. Are we done here?

 

[Ed O]

Ok. Let's look at what you have posted:

...

And here's what I said:

You forgot this statement that you made, too:

Clearly, none of you gain any sense of joy at the thought of being a part (if even a small part) of a beautiful and consistent universe. Ah well -- your loss.

I'm using your words, Ed. Your words. Please, PLEASE tell me how I am misreading them. Why is it silly to conclude that you DID NOT find the piece "moving and meaningful" based on your quotes above?

Because I have given no opinion on what I think. I am giving my opinion on how OTHERS would perceive it. I am not typical and I know that. I try not to project my beliefs on what others may believe.

I said that it would be inappropriate to say something like ABOUT a religious individual, just as it would be inappropriate to quote Genesis at the memorial of an atheist, no matter how many Christians were in attendance.

I don't think that's true. I am agnostic with atheist leanings and if it gave comfort to my loved ones, they can quote Genesis or the Qran for all I care. I'm gone.

And that's great that you think it would depress a lot of people. I don't. Are we done here?

I dunno. Are you through telling me what I think? Or you wanna take some more guesses?

Ed O.

 

[TripTango]

You forgot this statement that you made, too:

Clearly, none of you gain any sense of joy at the thought of being a part (if even a small part) of a beautiful and consistent universe. Ah well -- your loss.

That line was 95% joke, Ed. I know it's the internet and hard to convey tone and all, but I thought the overstatement there would be obvious. And again, where was I misreading your opinions in post #31?

Because I have given no opinion on what I think. I am giving my opinion on how OTHERS would perceive it. I am not typical and I know that. I try not to project my beliefs on what others may believe.

You may not have intended to give your own opinion, but can you at least reread what you posted and see how I might have reasonably concluded otherwise?

I don't think that's true. I am agnostic with atheist leanings and if it gave comfort to my loved ones, they can quote Genesis or the Qran for all I care. I'm gone.

That's great, but what about all of your friends who knew you and knew your beliefs?

Do you have any atheist friends? If you were planning a memorial service for one of them (heaven/universe forbid), would you ask a priest to quote scripture and tell stories about an afterlife that the deceased didn't even believe in? To me, that would be somewhat awkward and inappropriate for everyone who actually knew the individual.

And again, if it was done right (and at the right funeral service) I don't think ANYONE would object to a physicist who loved the departed standing up and describing the physical ways in which that person was still "present", in a manner of speaking. Yes, it may be trite, but so is the vast majority of stuff said at funerals, when taken out of context. Yes, it may be geek-speak, but guess what? There be a lot of geeks in this world. They deserve some speak every now and then.

Are you through telling me what I think? Or you wanna take some more guesses?

Seriously man -- I thought I had already stopped!

 

[MARIS61]

Dude. If your horse gets any higher, you're going to need a space suit.

What are you talking about?

I'm just saying it's pretty basic stuff that I learned at the library when I was in elementary school, and most kids don't go to the library nowadays to supplement their schooling and it should be taught before they swallow all that afterlife in heaven nonsense.

 

[MARIS61]

Clearly, none of you gain any sense of joy at the thought of being a part (if even a small part) of a beautiful and consistent universe. Ah well -- your loss.

I'm in heaven now. Why would I find joy in having to leave?

 

[MARIS61]

I want my funeral to be beneficial to the people who care enough to show up.

Ed O.

Benefit me to the tune of $10,000 and I'll care enough to show up.

 

[Masbee]

Yeah okay well your links are lame anybody this interested should look up those links and see what it's all about nothing

 

[Masbee]

The links are from Google's top ten hits, and show comments from a lot of people who really like that piece, many of whom express a desire to have it read at their funeral. In other words, they show a lot of "takers".

Yeah okay well your links are lame anybody this interested should look up those links and see what it's all about nothing

 

[Denny Crane]

What are you talking about?

I'm just saying it's pretty basic stuff that I learned at the library when I was in elementary school, and most kids don't go to the library nowadays to supplement their schooling and it should be taught before they swallow all that afterlife in heaven nonsense.

If you lie, you have to cover your whole body with tin foil. If you stand up, the tin foil hat deflects most of whatever it is you're afraid of.

 

[TripTango]

Yeah okay well your links are lame anybody this interested should look up those links and see what it's all about nothing

???

The links are exactly what I said -- a bunch of comments from other people expressing their appreciation from the piece I posted. Nothing more, nothing less. I entered the title into Google, and took these out of the top hits. I did this to support my position that many people would actually very much like to hear something like this at a funeral. It's a far cry from a comprehensive opinion poll, but it's about a billion times (give or take) more evidence than you have supplied to support your position that most people wouldn't like it.

But I get it, Masbee, I get it. You don't think many would like the quoted piece, and you REALLY don't like my unofficial evidence that many people WOULD like it. How about you just forget all about this thread and go on your way? Cheers.

 

[Masbee]

???

The links are exactly what I said -- a bunch of comments from other people expressing their appreciation from the piece I posted. Nothing more, nothing less. I entered the title into Google, and took these out of the top hits. I did this to support my position that many people would actually very much like to hear something like this at a funeral. It's a far cry from a comprehensive opinion poll, but it's about a billion times (give or take) more evidence than you have supplied to support your position that most people wouldn't like it.

But I get it, Masbee, I get it. You don't think many would like the quoted piece, and you REALLY don't like my unofficial evidence that many people WOULD like it. How about you just forget all about this thread and go on your way? Cheers.

Your first link has FIVE positive posts in the last five years. That is not "a bunch".

And I love your and the links posters constant strawman - that this is the alternative or antidote to a "religious" funeral. Bullshit. There are not only two choices - an in-your-face god and jesus heaven and hell christian funeral vs. this dust in the wind "physicist" take. Like I said already, a wake style funeral avoids both.

I am not really interested in "proving" I am right by doing a bunch of work to give you a lot of random posts on the internet. Because, you know what, posts on the internet prove very little. It is not a scientific survey. Outlier opinions/feelings/worldviews/etc exist. If a thought is possible, multiple people have posted that thought on the internet. Thus, you can "prove" ANYTHING by finding posts on the internet.

Let's try this. You like this eulogy. Go read it at the next several funerals you attend (no skipping due to percieved audience issues), and conduct your own surveys.

 

[TripTango]

Your first link has FIVE positive posts in the last five years. That is not "a bunch".

Oh? How much, exactly is "a bunch"? I'm always forgetting my unit measures...

And I love your and the links posters constant strawman - that this is the alternative or antidote to a "religious" funeral. Bullshit. There are not only two choices - an in-your-face god and jesus heaven and hell christian funeral vs. this dust in the wind "physicist" take. Like I said already, a wake style funeral avoids both.

Excuse me -- "constant strawman"? Show me where I even HINTED that I considered this an "antidote" to a religious funeral. Show me where I said I didn't like wakes. And then (when you can't find any such quote) kindly fuck off. I've been to a few funerals, and I've appreciated everything that was said at them that was honest and heartfelt. If you can't possibly imagine an honest, heartfelt and emotional delivery of how a physicist might take comfort in the continuity of memory and matter, that's fine. Why do you feel the need to measure how many funerals it would be appropriate at?

I am not really interested in "proving" I am right by doing a bunch of work to give you a lot of random posts on the internet. Because, you know what, posts on the internet prove very little. It is not a scientific survey. Outlier opinions/feelings/worldviews/etc exist. If a thought is possible, multiple people have posted that thought on the internet. Thus, you can "prove" ANYTHING by finding posts on the internet.

The irony here is that YOU are the one making claims about what everyone thinks -- I just posted something I liked, and followed up by saying that there were others who also liked it. Nothing more, nothing less. I never claimed that it was somehow superior to religious quotations, and I sure as hell never claimed it was better than having a wake. You are inventing a conflict out of thin air, and I have no idea why. You don't think anyone would like it? Fine -- don't read it. Why can't you just leave it at that?

Let's try this. You like this eulogy. Go read it at the next several funerals you attend (no skipping due to perceived audience issues), and conduct your own surveys.

You are being ridiculous.

 

[huevonkiller]

Recycled = dead. No more. Cease to exist.

What makes us human is the trillions of connection in our brains - synapses.

"recycling" the atoms in the human body, breaks the connections. Humpty Dumpty baby. Can't put it back together.

Agreed completely. That recycling rhetoric is nothing to celebrate.