Zach Collins underwent revision surgery today to repair a left medial malleolus stress fracture.

[B-Roy]

I wish we didn't view players so much by their salaries and where they were drafted... It skews everything.

I feel bad for Zach. None of this, neither his injuries nor perception of how he's performed based on where he was drafted, have been his fault.

Reality hurts. Some people still hold on the idea that Oden was the right pick if he wasn’t injured.

 

[bobf]

Explains the Giles singing.

I don’t think Giles should be singing about this.

 

[bobf]

Can we have Wenyan back please? He looked better than Zach anyway in the very limited sample we saw.

 

[Propagandist]

Reality hurts. Some people still hold on the idea that Oden was the right pick if he wasn’t injured.

Sure "reality."

 

[B-Roy]

I googled NBA players who have had this injury before and this was the first result:

https://jp.reuters.com/article/instant-article/idUSTRE6BF6O820101218

FUCK. Yao played 5 games that year before getting this injury and he never played again. Of course he was dealing with a lot of recurring leg and foot issues before. I seriously hope this isn't the trajectory for Zach, because their injury history is starting to look very similar.

 

[blazerkor]

I wish we didn't view players so much by their salaries and where they were drafted... It skews everything.

I feel bad for Zach. None of this, neither his injuries nor perception of how he's performed based on where he was drafted, have been his fault.

I really like this sentiment and we shouldn't judge players on anything besides effort and judgment but we only have so much cap room and so many draft picks. So we have to be critical of how that money and those draft picks are spent. I don't judge draft picks close to as harshly as I judge grossly overpaying players.

You are right though, it should only be the GMs being judged for picks and contracts. Coaches being judged for who they play, when they play them and other tactical decisions. Players really should only be judged by fans for how hard they play and the judgment they use while playing at whatever effort level they give.

 

[Labinot41]

Is Collins absolutely out for the rest of the season? Could he still be back for the playoffs? The playoffs start at end of may, that's stil 5 months

 

[B-Roy]

Is Collins absolutely out for the rest of the season? Could he still be back for the playoffs? The playoffs start at end of may, that's stil 5 months

From the limited amount of googling I've done, players miss a variable amount of time depending on where the fracture occurred and the type of player.

Durant only missed about a month with a fracture in his foot. Embiid missed 4-6 months and then basically two years due to reoccurring fractures in his foot. Not many players have had ankle fractures. Alex Len had an ankle fracture but that was before he was drafted, so he didn't lose time. Yao's career was ended by an ankle fracture, but obviously that was just the straw that broke the camel's back.

 

[Propagandist]

I really like this sentiment and we shouldn't judge players on anything besides effort and judgment but we only have so much cap room and so many draft picks. So we have to be critical of how that money and those draft picks are spent. I don't judge draft picks close to as harshly as I judge grossly overpaying players.

You are right though, it should only be the GMs being judged for picks and contracts. Coaches being judged for who they play, when they play them and other tactical decisions. Players really should only be judged by fans for how hard they play and the judgment they use while playing at whatever effort level they give.

Exactly. Assets and value and everything on the managerial side of things is really outside the control of players. I hated ET's contract, but it certainly wasn't his fault. Same with Zach. I don't love Zach as a player, but no one can deny his dedication and effort.

You know, maybe this is a personality thing. I think regret is dumb. ESPECIALLY in something like evaluating talent. "What could have been..." is an absurd notion. Deal with it or take it out on Neil Olshey.

 

[SheedSoNasty]

I’d be okay with never seeing him in a Blazer jersey again. I wish him well in his recovery, though.

 

[blazerkor]

Is Collins absolutely out for the rest of the season? Could he still be back for the playoffs? The playoffs start at end of may, that's stil 5 months

Ankle and foot injuries are really hard to call with big men... just look at this second surgery for instance. So there was something that says this second surgery should take 8-12 weeks to recover from but we just have to wait and see. Zach was aggressively rehabbing the first surgery and now had to have the second... so would it be smart for him to be just as aggressive or maybe be a little more conservative (no need for any political commentary) this time around?

That's for Zach to decide, the wise choice would probably be to take the rest of this season off and then either take the QA or whatever the best longer term deal is out there for him. Zach may be more ambitious and go all out to make a late season return, so he can increase his value going into free agency. We'll see.

 

[e_blazer]

How the fuck does Ja Morant jump so high come down on his ankle like crazy bad and only projected to miss couple weeks ?

He’s projected to miss 3-5 weeks and it’s a grade 2 ankle sprain, not a stress fracture to a part of the ankle that can be tricky to heal.

 

[Propagandist]

From the limited amount of googling I've done, players miss a variable amount of time depending on where the fracture occurred and the type of player.

Durant only missed about a month with a fracture in his foot. Embiid missed 4-6 months and then basically two years due to reoccurring fractures in his foot. Not many players have had ankle fractures. Alex Len had an ankle fracture but that was before he was drafted, so he didn't lose time. Yao's career was ended by an ankle fracture, but obviously that was just the straw that broke the camel's back.

I'm pretty sure it's a lack of blood vessels to the area that's a major issue with injuries to the malleolus. Without blood flow, it's tough to heal well.

 

[B-Roy]

He’s projected to miss 3-5 weeks and it’s a grade 2 ankle sprain, not a stress fracture to a part of the ankle that can be tricky to heal.

Stress fractures also develop over time. It's not usually a single impact that causes the fracture. Zach probably didn't have this when he initially got the surgery, but it developed as he rehabbed the ankle.

 

[handiman]

This is potentially his third season-ending injury in the past year...

I had very high hopes for Zach and have clung stubbornly to them, but I'm ready to view him like a late-career, poor man's Bernard King: never to be counted on, but good for an occasional big contribution when between IR stints. His contract going forward should be significantly less than MLE, because he can't be relied on to be healthy often enough to produce at that level.

 

[e_blazer]

Lying ass franchise was pulling our leg this whole time about himn

Come on, man, try to be better than this with your posts. Setbacks with recovery from injuries happen. At the start of camp, Zach was working on his game and recovery. He was expected back by the end of January. Obviously, as he ramped up his workouts, he started having some pain and when they checked it out they found the injury wasn’t healed right. How is that lying?

 

[Wizard Mentor]

It would be very interesting if s2 existed while Bill Walton played for Portland.

 

[blazerkor]

Exactly. Assets and value and everything on the managerial side of things is really outside the control of players. I hated ET's contract, but it certainly wasn't his fault. Same with Zach. I don't love Zach as a player, but no one can deny his dedication and effort.

You know, maybe this is a personality thing. I think regret is dumb. ESPECIALLY in something like evaluating talent. "What could have been..." is an absurd notion. Deal with it or take it out on Neil Olshey.

Yeah, that's one thing about a thread I started right before the season started that was addressing the term "CJ haters", a lot of the criticism about CJ's game has to do with fit (that's a Stotts and Olshey issue) and what he's being paid (that's an Olshey issue solely). Other than those two things, I think CJ should give a little more on defense and pass the ball the way he has been the last couple of games but other than that I love what he does and can do.

I tend to forget about picks outside the top 5-7 pretty quickly as every GM misses guys every draft. Bad contracts are harder to forgive GMs for but they are never, never, never a player's fault. These guys have an average of 4.8 years in the league and only around a decade if they're good to make as much as they can.

 

[bobf]

I really like this sentiment and we shouldn't judge players on anything besides effort and judgment but we only have so much cap room and so many draft picks. So we have to be critical of how that money and those draft picks are spent. I don't judge draft picks close to as harshly as I judge grossly overpaying players.

You are right though, it should only be the GMs being judged for picks and contracts. Coaches being judged for who they play, when they play them and other tactical decisions. Players really should only be judged by fans for how hard they play and the judgment they use while playing at whatever effort level they give.

Yes, and pay players according to what they have done or are doing on the court. Not according to some rose-colored dream the GM has of what they might blossom into.

 

[e_blazer]

Stress fractures also develop over time. It's not usually a single impact that causes the fracture. Zach probably didn't have this when he initially got the surgery, but it developed as he rehabbed the ankle.

I was referring to Morant’s ankle sprain and how the recovery time is different than Collins’ injury.

 

[Scalma]

Well see how long he’s out for but if he misses the entire season I’d be surprised if the team gave him a QO.

 

[Natebishop3]

I wish we didn't view players so much by their salaries and where they were drafted... It skews everything.

I feel bad for Zach. None of this, neither his injuries nor perception of how he's performed based on where he was drafted, have been his fault.

Well unfortunately you just mentioned two things that are viewed as investments. If we invest a large portion of our salary cap, or a high draft pick on a player, you're going to view that player based on his ROI. Right now Zach has not had a good ROI. Draft picks and salary cap space can be invested in other directions. It's not his fault where he was picked, and it's not his fault that he has been injured, but them's the breaks.

 

[Wizard Mentor]

Well unfortunately you just mentioned two things that are viewed as investments. If we invest a large portion of our salary cap, or a high draft pick on a player, you're going to view that player based on his ROI. Right now Zach has not had a good ROI. Draft picks and salary cap space can be invested in other directions. It's not his fault where he was picked, and it's not his fault that he has been injured, but them's the breaks.

It is nonsensical for those using ROI ignore the statistical nature of the investments (risk/reward) - Mutual funds exist for just that reason. In basketball, that's one of the reason player comparisons are so compelling.

 

[BlayZa]

watch how quickly we extend him.

i had high hopes but this is just a waste of time at this point.

 

[Labinot41]

Worst case he accepts the qualifying offer, has a very good 2021-2022 season and leaves us as a UFA

 

[Natebishop3]

It is nonsensical for those using ROI ignore the statistical nature of the investments (risk/reward) - Mutual funds exist for just that reason. In basketball, that's one of the reason player comparisons are so compelling.

Almost everyone hated the pick at the time. The risk did not outweigh the reward. We took a tall, skinny, young big man who was extremely raw and wasn't even starting for his college team. We spent a top 10 pick and we got second round value.

 

[blazerkor]

Worst case he accepts the qualifying offer, has a very good 2021-2022 season and leaves us as a UFA

Man that's the kind of shit that Olshey thinks that gets him to bid against himself and offer a guy like Zach a long term deal that may end up as nothing but dead cap space.

 

[Wizard Mentor]

Almost everyone hated the pick at the time. The risk did not outweigh the reward. We took a tall, skinny, young big man who was extremely raw and wasn't even starting for his college team. We spent a top 10 pick and we got second round value.

I don't agree, but that's not the point. Only an aggregation of decisions matters. In fact, "results-oriented" thinking is well known to be trash.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

 

[blazerkor]

Almost everyone hated the pick at the time. The risk did not outweigh the reward. We took a tall, skinny, young big man who was extremely raw and wasn't even starting for his college team. We spent a top 10 pick and we got second round value.

Yeah that pick, especially moving up for it, was a bit of a head scratcher but I didn't know enough about Zach or the other bigs I liked (Giles, Bam, and Ivan Rabb) to be too pissed. The only players I liked in that draft were Josh Jackson, Lauri Markkanen and Bam... so I was in wait and see mode for Zach and we just never really got to see because of injuries.