Zach Lowe Synopsis of Blazers' Situation

[OneLifeToLive]

RC Buford is not Morey. If he moves Splitter in a deal to free up cap space. He has a strong feeling about something, IMO.

 

[cmeese47]

Should have made a play for Conley a few years ago when I suggested it ;-) now we are in a difficult situation with a good roster that is not quite good enough to be a legit contender or blow things up and make significant changes.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

I didn't say they aren't good. In fact, I said the exact opposite. I'm saying that tearing down a very good team, like the Blazers, because there are other very good teams that may even be "better" at the start of the season is dumb because it's about 50-50 as to whether that team will be healthy come playoff time.

I can't quite follow you here. Is the "that" team the Blazers or some other good team?
If it's the Blazers, your statement doesn't really make sense.
If it's some other team, well, that would be fine if we were top 3 in the West, but the Warriors, OKC, Memphis (clearly), Houston, the Clippers at least are better than us. Even more worryingly, teams like the Hornets and (gulp) Utah, who are younger and will obviously get better, were better than us in the second half. Are we banking on a massive slew of injuries? Hell, why not rebuild and hope for that too? If enough injuries happen to other teams, we could be shitty and still win the championship!

If the Blazers can bring back the same core next season, they'd still have cap space in 2016 to sign another good FA. Seems to me like that's a better course of action than blowing things up and playing lottery roulette. Of course, LA and other players may make choices that force another direction, but I'd rather shoot for continuing to build from a very good team than from a lottery one.

I'm not advocating busting us up. I don't know that I could take it. But if I'm honest, I don't see us winning a championship, or even reaching the West finals in our current iteration. Now, if we could get Gasol, I'd change my tune in a hurry...

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Should have made a play for Conley [last season] when I suggested it ;-)

Nobody else will give you credit for sticking with this unpopular but defensible position, but I will. Conley is getting a lot of credit nationally for the Grizzlies' success, and finally getting his due as one of the more underrated players in the league. It's not beyond reason to think that we might have been more successful this postseason if Dame and Conley had switched places.

Long term, I still expect Dame to be better, but it's not a slam dunk.

 

[jlprk]

Pritchard tried for several years to get Conley from Memphis, under the rubric, "He'll help us keep Oden." I think the real reason was that he knew he'd become this good.

 

[jlprk]

I don't quite see how the bigger cap in the future means it's time to blow it up now. Seems to me that knowing the cap will increase, you sign everyone you can now with the anticipation that you can sign someone else later. Unless you believe that all of LeBron, CP3, Anthony Davis, Harden, Durant, etc. want to sign here as free agents. Which they surely don't.

barfo

What are your ransom demands??!!

Don't kill Barfo till we talk about it!! We may want to pay or we may not.

 

[e_blazer]

I can't quite follow you here. Is the "that" team the Blazers or some other good team?
If it's the Blazers, your statement doesn't really make sense.
If it's some other team, well, that would be fine if we were top 3 in the West, but the Warriors, OKC, Memphis (clearly), Houston, the Clippers at least are better than us. Even more worryingly, teams like the Hornets and (gulp) Utah, who are younger and will obviously get better, were better than us in the second half. Are we banking on a massive slew of injuries? Hell, why not rebuild and hope for that too? If enough injuries happen to other teams, we could be shitty and still win the championship!



I'm not advocating busting us up. I don't know that I could take it. But if I'm honest, I don't see us winning a championship, or even reaching the West finals in our current iteration. Now, if we could get Gasol, I'd change my tune in a hurry...

I think that you're letting the injured Blazers of the second half of the season blind you to just how good the team was when healthy. A healthy Blazers squad with the current roster is better than Houston by far and at least on the same level as Memphis and the Clippers. The Warriors and a healthy OKC are better, but. healthy, the Blazers are a very good team capable of getting hot and contending for a title. That's not just a homer me talking, that's what a lot of writers and commentators around the league were saying too. I agree with you that the addition of Gasol or one other equivalent top-tier player would help the Blazers go from dark-horse to top contender status. My main point is that we're a lot more likely to entice that type of player to come here, or to acquire him in trade, if the Blazers remain a very good team rather than breaking things up and starting over.

 

[cmeese47]

Nobody else will give you credit for sticking with this unpopular but defensible position, but I will. Conley is getting a lot of credit nationally for the Grizzlies' success, and finally getting his due as one of the more underrated players in the league. It's not beyond reason to think that we might have been more successful this postseason if Dame and Conley had switched places.

Long term, I still expect Dame to be better, but it's not a slam dunk.

Well thank you, the only issue I ever had with the deal was including Matthews. His toughness and leadership made this team better, while that would have likely been offset by the addition of Conley and Allen who both possess the kind of leadership and grit it takes to succeed in the playoffs losing Matthews would have hurt.

I hope Matthews comes back fully healthy next season even if it is not in Portland the dude is a class act.

I also really hope twittter shames Lillard into really playing some defense. You saw some improvements early in the season but the sustained effort was not there and it needs to be there all year especially in the playoffs.

 

[riverman]

I say this cmeese..you were right about how good Conley was but I still wouldn't trade Lillard for him. Conley is thriving in the Memphis system. My question is where are you when we win a triple overtime game in San Antonio or Lillard gets 15 assists or 18 rebounds..you have been absent for successes in Portland but show up after failures.

 

[riverman]

I'm still rooting for the Grizz to win it all now that we're out of the picture! I really like that team and coach.

 

[cmeese47]

I say this cmeese..you were right about how good Conley was but I still wouldn't trade Lillard for him. Conley is thriving in the Memphis system. My question is where are you when we win a triple overtime game in San Antonio or Lillard gets 15 assists or 18 rebounds..you have been absent for successes in Portland but show up after failures.

I enjoy the off-season, I try to avoid this place during the regular season because it is generally unbearable, between the homers claiming this is the best team ever to the doubters who post more than enough for me after losses.

Eventually it is likely Lillard will be the better PG, but for a team trying to win now Conley was the better option. He is a better floor general, a real PG, he plays good defense and is a vocal leader. Throw in the amazing defense Allen brings and this was the kind of gamble that could have gotten Portland to the next level.

Then again if Lillard was a shadow of his playoff form last year Memphis might have had a problem. He wasn't and now we are once again out of the playoffs. There are no guarantees in this league, but I see major flaws in this team that would prevent it from being a contender and sadly Lillard and Aldridge are both part of the problem as much as they are part of the solution.

Lillard's Defense and shot selection both need to drastically improve.
LA needs to man up in the playoffs we need post scoring not 15 mid range jumpers per game.

Without those adjustments we are a playoff team and that is it, it takes major guts to make a move like I suggested for Conley, last year when Lillard was pouring in game winners against the pitiful Houston Def it looked like a bad deal. This year will Memphis pounding us like freshman at her first kegger it looks like a much better deal especially with Matthews hurt.

I am a gambler so I will always recommend making a deal, but quite honestly we just need Dame and LA to take upon themselves to take the next step and a healthy Matthews and we could be right in that title conversation.

 

[BrianFromWA]

well-articulated, cmeese, but I invite you to remember that Conley is in his 7th season, while Dame just finished his 3rd. While I can probably get behind the "Conley's D would've helped us *this year* more than Damian's...Conley in his 3rd year wasn't close to the defender he is now. It's pretty interesting how his shooting %'s haven't changed (still 44% FG, 37% 3pt), and his A/TO's haven't changed (~5.5 apg, 2 to/g), but his defense started improving (probably kick-started by his jump in steals, which our team scheme does not emphasize/allow) and starting his 5th year became really well-known for it. Amazingly enough, his newfound emphasis on steals and improved defensive splits became good right about the time that Tony Allen joined the team and Marc Gasol blossomed into a paint stud on D.

Even if Damian works his butt off (or we somehow trade him for Conley), do you think we have a Tony Allen and Marc Gasol standing by on the rest of the defense? And do you think that Dame's kind of hopeless about D, even when in comparison with Conley and his vast improvement between year 3 and 5? Especially since Lillard seems to have vastly more physical attributes (size/length, weight, stamina) at his disposal than Conley?

 

[cmeese47]

well-articulated, cmeese, but I invite you to remember that Conley is in his 7th season, while Dame just finished his 3rd. While I can probably get behind the "Conley's D would've helped us *this year* more than Damian's...Conley in his 3rd year wasn't close to the defender he is now. It's pretty interesting how his shooting %'s haven't changed (still 44% FG, 37% 3pt), and his A/TO's haven't changed (~5.5 apg, 2 to/g), but his defense started improving (probably kick-started by his jump in steals, which our team scheme does not emphasize/allow) and starting his 5th year became really well-known for it. Amazingly enough, his newfound emphasis on steals and improved defensive splits became good right about the time that Tony Allen joined the team and Marc Gasol blossomed into a paint stud on D.

Even if Damian works his butt off (or we somehow trade him for Conley), do you think we have a Tony Allen and Marc Gasol standing by on the rest of the defense? And do you think that Dame's kind of hopeless about D, even when in comparison with Conley and his vast improvement between year 3 and 5? Especially since Lillard seems to have vastly more physical attributes (size/length, weight, stamina) at his disposal than Conley?

My point was at the time that Conley was ready now and Lillard had major holes in his game. That is still the case today. Conley is a better defender and leader than Dame; will that always be the case, I don't know. My goal at the time was to build a team that could contend and keep LA in town. That window has passed and now it is up to LA to decide whether he wants to stay or not.

 

[Rhal]

well-articulated, cmeese, but I invite you to remember that Conley is in his 7th season, while Dame just finished his 3rd. While I can probably get behind the "Conley's D would've helped us *this year* more than Damian's...Conley in his 3rd year wasn't close to the defender he is now. It's pretty interesting how his shooting %'s haven't changed (still 44% FG, 37% 3pt), and his A/TO's haven't changed (~5.5 apg, 2 to/g), but his defense started improving (probably kick-started by his jump in steals, which our team scheme does not emphasize/allow) and starting his 5th year became really well-known for it. Amazingly enough, his newfound emphasis on steals and improved defensive splits became good right about the time that Tony Allen joined the team and Marc Gasol blossomed into a paint stud on D.

Even if Damian works his butt off (or we somehow trade him for Conley), do you think we have a Tony Allen and Marc Gasol standing by on the rest of the defense? And do you think that Dame's kind of hopeless about D, even when in comparison with Conley and his vast improvement between year 3 and 5? Especially since Lillard seems to have vastly more physical attributes (size/length, weight, stamina) at his disposal than Conley?

Everyone looks at Conley now and think if only we had him instead of Dame forgetting that Conley is a finished product while Dame is still learning. You bring up a good point about him as a young player, when he was given his contract extension it was widely widely panned as a huge overpay for someone who hadnt come close to living up to his draft status. There was even an article where an anonymous GM called Conleys contract a franchise killing contract.

 

[cmeese47]

Everyone looks at Conley now and think if only we had him instead of Dame forgetting that Conley is a finished product while Dame is still learning. You bring up a good point about him as a young player, when he was given his contract extension it was widely widely panned as a huge overpay for someone who hadnt come close to living up to his draft status. There was even an article where an anonymous GM called Conleys contract a franchise killing contract.

Conley has been consistent for a long time, what has improved is his defense, his leadership and his willingness to score. Plus that anonymous GM is an ass hole.

 

[kjironman1]

I do understand this way of thinking. I really do.

However, You have got to be "Very Good" in order to have a chance to become great. Consistently being very good keeps you in the running and then when you get a break or someone that you draft really steps up you end up "Really Good". There are examples all over the league right now.

Curry and Thompson have both improved.

Jones has improved for the Rockets

Deandre Jordan has stepped way up and Griffin continues to improve.

Patty Mills and Jeff Green as well as Splitter have all stepped up.

The Blazers are looking to have even more improvement from Lillard, CJ and Meyers Leonard. They have a draft pick this year to bring along also. Staying "Very Good" is the way to do this IMO.