Zimmerman Case - Lightning Rod

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Masbee said:
You keep denying it. The DEFENSE never used Stand Your Ground.

Sure the jury instructions including the phrasing. It is part of the law. But because the defense never argued any component of the Stand Your Ground provisions applied in this case it is moot.

How dense can you be. It is amazing that you fall so easily for the bullshit slung by the likes of Eric Holder. Rabble rousing manipulators.

Seek the truth and you shall find it:

​

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/15/u...-was-hard-to-topple.html?pagewanted=all&_r=1&
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The LAW IS STAND YOUR GROUND, no matter what the defense argued.

You cannot deny what the law is with any believability.
 
If you claim self defense in a state without stand your ground, there are at least these two issues:

1) You must retreat
2) You cannot use more force than used against you (shoot an unarmed person)

If you claim self defense in a state with stand your ground, these rules change:

1) You don't have to retreat
2) You can shoot a black boy as he's returning from the store with his skittles and soda pop.
 
Masbee said:
http://www.businessinsider.com/stand-your-ground-not-used-in-florida-2013-7

Don't Blame The George Zimmerman Verdict On 'Stand Your Ground'

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/stand-your-ground-not-used-in-florida-2013-7#ixzz2ZGEaLTUu​
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You just don't get it.

It doesn't matter what the defense did or didn't do.

It's fucking written in the law. They didn't throw out the law and use something else, did they?

Read it, comprehend it, then post.

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes...ing&URL=0700-0799/0776/Sections/0776.013.html

776.013 Home protection; use of deadly force; presumption of fear of death or great bodily harm.—

(3) A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.
 
Geez, read your own link

Before "Stand Your Ground," jurors would have received this instruction, the Florida Sun-Sentinel's Dan Gelber points out:

"The fact that the defendant was wrongfully attacked cannot justify his use of force likely to cause death or great bodily harm if by retreating he could have avoided the need to use that force. "

In a post-"Stand Your Ground" world, the Zimmerman jurors received this instruction:

"If George Zimmerman was not engaged in an unlawful activity and was attacked in any place where he had a right to be, he had no duty to retreat and had the right to stand his ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he reasonably believed that it was necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony."



Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/stand-your-ground-not-used-in-florida-2013-7#ixzz2ZGGbh9Ro

(EDIT: the former is self defense as 1000 years of common law defines it, the latter is stand your ground law)
 
Denny Crane said:
Geez, read your own link

Before "Stand Your Ground," jurors would have received this instruction, the Florida Sun-Sentinel's Dan Gelber points out:

"The fact that the defendant was wrongfully attacked cannot justify his use of force likely to cause death or great bodily harm if by retreating he could have avoided the need to use that force. "

In a post-"Stand Your Ground" world, the Zimmerman jurors received this instruction:

"If George Zimmerman was not engaged in an unlawful activity and was attacked in any place where he had a right to be, he had no duty to retreat and had the right to stand his ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he reasonably believed that it was necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony."



Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/stand-your-ground-not-used-in-florida-2013-7#ixzz2ZGGbh9Ro

(EDIT: the former is self defense as 1000 years of common law defines it, the latter is stand your ground law)
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Denny, you still don't get it. He couldn't retreat with Martin sitting on his chest.
 
You guys seem to be arguing the same things over and over and over and over and over












and over.
 
tlongII said:
Denny, you still don't get it. He couldn't retreat with Martin sitting on his chest.
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He could have retreated at any time before the altercation.

But it doesn't matter. He wasn't required to retreat because the law in Florida is stand your ground.

EDIT: the fact he shot an unarmed person, attacking him or not, wouldn't fly in almost any non stand your ground state, as "self defense."
 
Denny Crane said:
He could have retreated at any time before the altercation.

But it doesn't matter. He wasn't required to retreat because the law in Florida is stand your ground.

EDIT: the fact he shot an unarmed person, attacking him or not, wouldn't fly in almost any non stand your ground state, as "self defense."
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He didn't have any need to retreat before there was an altercation.
 
Statement from District Attorney George Gascón on ‪#‎Zimmerman‬ verdict:

"As the District Attorney for the City and County of San Francisco, I too feel the gravity of the Zimmerman verdict. I have spoken with many in the African American community, and they have expressed a deep feeling of abandonment by the justice system. Sadly, many feel that their lives and the lives of their children are seen as worthless. As your District Attorney, I want to re-affirm my office’s continued commitment to protecting every member of our community regardless of race, gender, religion, national origin or sexual orientation. It is my firm belief that by continuing to work together we will continue on the path of protecting the life and safety of every San Franciscan."

 
SlyPokerDog said:
Statement from District Attorney George Gascón on ‪#‎Zimmerman‬ verdict:

"As the District Attorney for the City and County of San Francisco, I too feel the gravity of the Zimmerman verdict. I have spoken with many in the African American community, and they have expressed a deep feeling of abandonment by the justice system. Sadly, many feel that their lives and the lives of their children are seen as worthless. As your District Attorney, I want to re-affirm my office’s continued commitment to protecting every member of our community regardless of race, gender, religion, national origin or sexual orientation. It is my firm belief that by continuing to work together we will continue on the path of protecting the life and safety of every San Franciscan."

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When did San Francisco become part of Florida?
 
tlongII said:
He didn't have any need to retreat before there was an altercation.
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"You have a problem?"

RETREAT!

"You got one now!"

RETREAT!

And you still have the guy shooting an unarmed kid. Not self defense as 1000 years of common law defines it.

To say the case had "nothing" to do with stand your ground is to ignore what's written in the law and the instructions given the jury. They considered the stand your ground provisions.

Given the "must retreat" provision, it was doubtful he couldn't have retreated at some point, or that he wouldn't have followed the kid in the first place.
 
The state DOJ employee who said Corey was withholding exculpatory evidence, and was then fired, is suing the state.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/07/16/us-usa-florida-shooting-lawsuit-idUSBRE96F1EL20130716

Exclusive: Fired employee to file lawsuit against Zimmerman prosecutors

(Reuters) - A former employee of Florida State Attorney Angela Corey's office plans to file a whistleblower lawsuit against George Zimmerman's prosecutors, his attorney told Reuters on Tuesday.

The action will put pressure on Corey, who already faces criticism from some legal experts for the unsuccessful prosecution of the case, which led to the acquittal of Zimmerman for shooting unarmed black teenager Trayvon Martin. Zimmerman's defense has also called for sanctions against her and her prosecution team.

Ben Kruidbos, Corey's former director of information technology, was fired after testifying at a pre-trial hearing on June 6 that prosecutors failed to turn over potentially embarrassing evidence extracted from Martin's cell phone to the defense, as required by evidence-sharing laws.

"We will be filing a whistleblower action in (Florida's Fourth Judicial District) Circuit Court," said Kruidbos' attorney Wesley White, himself a former prosecutor who was hired by Corey but resigned in December because he disagreed with her prosecutorial priorities. He said the suit will be filed within the next 30 days.

Corey and lead prosecutor Bernie de la Rionda declined to comment. A spokeswoman for Corey referred Reuters to Kruidbos' termination letter, previously made public, in which Corey's office accused him of hacking confidential information from state computers.

The six-page letter, dated July 11, charges Kruidbos with "deliberate, willful and unscrupulous actions" that make him untrustworthy and calls his questioning of de la Rionda's actions regarding the cell phone evidence "a shallow, but obvious, attempt to cloak yourself in the protection of the whistleblower law."

BRADY DISPUTE

Zimmerman was acquitted on Saturday following a five-week trial that riveted America and relaunched debates on race and guns. The verdict sparked demonstrations in some cities by those angered by the decision.

On Monday, Corey told Reuters, "Our office adhered to the highest standards of ethical behavior."

Trial law requires prosecutors to share evidence with defense attorneys, especially if it helps exonerate defendants. The requirement is known as the Brady disclosure.

Kruidbos testified last month in a pre-trial hearing that he found photos on Martin's phone that included pictures of a pile of jewelry on a bed, underage nude females, marijuana plants and a hand holding a semi-automatic pistol.

The Martin family lawyer, Benjamin Crump, did not immediately respond to requests for comment.

Kruidbos had emailed de la Rionda in late January and attached a report containing the text messages and images he had retrieved from Martin's cell phone, his lawyer said.

Zimmerman's chief defense attorney Mark O'Mara has said he didn't receive the material until June, shortly before the murder trial began.

Judge Debra Nelson ruled that pictures and texts from Martin's cell phone were inadmissible, after prosecutors argued that it couldn't be proven Martin actually took the pictures and wrote the texts on his phone.

The judge has yet to rule on whether the prosecution committed any Brady violations by not handing over evidence, as alleged by Zimmerman's defense team.

(Editing by Dina Kyriakidou, Martin Howell)
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Denny Crane said:
"You have a problem?"

RETREAT!

"You got one now!"

RETREAT!

And you still have the guy shooting an unarmed kid. Not self defense as 1000 years of common law defines it.

To say the case had "nothing" to do with stand your ground is to ignore what's written in the law and the instructions given the jury. They considered the stand your ground provisions.

Given the "must retreat" provision, it was doubtful he couldn't have retreated at some point, or that he wouldn't have followed the kid in the first place.
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He did retreat. At this point, I have to think you have some sort of social inclusion disease, or the inability to reason when testimony flies in the face of what you post.
 
Thanks a lot, Obama. Also, Zimmerman is a "white Hispanic". Get it right!:MARIS61:

Baltimore police say they are investigating a witness account that a group of black youths beat a Hispanic man near Patterson Park Sunday while saying, "This is for Trayvon."

A witness posted the account on a community Facebook page, and police confirmed they are looking into whether the suspects' reaction to the verdict in the Florida trial of George Zimmerman played a part in the incident. A police report on the beating does not mention the alleged comments.
Sgt. Eric Kowalczyk, a police spokesman, declined to go into further detail.
Related


In a post that drew nearly 50 comments on Facebook, real estate agent Christina Dudley said she was walking to her car just before 9 p.m. when she saw several young black males and two black females chasing a 37-year-old Hispanic man west on North Linwood Avenue past East Fairmont Avenue.
"One of the boys had a handgun out and it was pointed at the back of him," Dudley said in an interview.

They caught up to the man at the corner of Fairmount and N. Streeper Street, and the male with the gun beat the victim with what appeared to be his gun while others kicked and stomped him, Dudley said.

"They were just yelling and calling him names as they ran after him, but once they were hitting him and after that they started yelling, "This is for Trayvon, [expletive]," said Dudley, who heard the chant repeated multiple times.
Dudley and a woman walking her dog across the street told the group to stop and warned that they were calling 911. The group scattered before police arrived. Police have no arrests or named suspects.

Using a translator, police spoke to the victim, who knows some English, according to the police report. The victim told officers that he was standing in the intersection of Fairmont and N. Potomac Street when a group of five black males first approached him.

He described all of the males as between 16 and 18 and told police a 6-foot suspect with a black "stretchy" shirt and mohawk told him, "What's up, [expletive]." When the victim raised his phone to call 911, the suspect raised his shirt and flashed a silver handgun in his waistband.

The victim turned and ran before he was caught in the 2800 block of Fairmont and was beaten, police said. He sustained abrasions to his elbows and forearms but refused medical attention.

Police listed all of the suspects involved as black males. Three were "skinny" while one was described as overweight.

Dudley, who lives in the neighborhood, said she worries about her Hispanic neighbors and said she and other residents were looking for ways to warn them of the incident beyond Facebook. Patterson Park has one of the city's highest concentration of Latinos and is home to the city's annual Latino Fest.

Zimmerman, who is of Hispanic descent, had been charged with killing Trayvon Martin in an altercation that drew national concerns about racial profiling. He was found not guilty of all charges.

"Everyone in the neighborhood is well aware of the situation, but my concern is that we have a very large Hispanic population and many of them might not have Internet connection or they aren't on that page," Dudley said. "So my concern is trying to get the word out to them."


Read more: http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/ma...monday-20130715,0,5135359.story#ixzz2ZGWoxy11
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Denny Crane said:
https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/ccm-columns/its-just-the-law/disparity-of-force/

We in Oregon do not have a stand your ground law but our self defense satute does not require retreat. It' is logical, it should be viewed as a right from our creator.

Deadly force cannot be used unless the victim is in fear of deadly force. This usually requires the presence of a weapon. However, sometimes a significant disparity in the strength or fighting ability between the parties is accepted as a substitute weapon.
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We in Oregon do not have a stand your ground law but our self defense satute does not require retreat. It' is logical, it should be viewed as a right from our creator.

"Like Florida, Oregon law imposes no duty to retreat when using deadly force in self-defense when outside of the home. Unlike Florida, Oregon’s position on the use of deadly force in selfdefense did not come about through clear legislation. It seems relatively clear what the Florida Legislature had in mind when it passed the “Stand Your Ground” law. However, laws do not always clearly express the intent of the legislature. Oregon passed laws governing the limitations on the use of deadly force in self-defense in 1971. The pertinent section provides:

Notwithstanding the provisions of ORS 161.209 (Use of physical force in defense of a person), a person is not justified in using deadly physical force upon another person unless the person reasonably believes that the other person is:
(1) Committing or attempting to commit a felony involving the use or threatened imminent use of physical force against a person; or
(2) Committing or attempting to commit a burglary in a dwelling; or
(3) Using or about to use unlawful deadly physical force against a person.

ORS 161.219. There are obvious differences in the wording of the Oregon law and the Florida law. The Oregon law makes no reference to a “duty to retreat” nor does it use the words: “stand his or her ground.” If just looking at the Oregon statute, knowing when the use of deadly force in self-defense outside of the home is legal does not appear quite as clear compared to the Florida law."

" The Oregon Supreme Court says you have no duty to retreat outside of your home."
 
MarAzul said:
We in Oregon do not have a stand your ground law but our self defense satute does not require retreat. It' is logical, it should be viewed as a right from our creator.

"Like Florida, Oregon law imposes no duty to retreat when using deadly force in self-defense when outside of the home. Unlike Florida, Oregon’s position on the use of deadly force in selfdefense did not come about through clear legislation. It seems relatively clear what the Florida Legislature had in mind when it passed the “Stand Your Ground” law. However, laws do not always clearly express the intent of the legislature. Oregon passed laws governing the limitations on the use of deadly force in self-defense in 1971. The pertinent section provides:

Notwithstanding the provisions of ORS 161.209 (Use of physical force in defense of a person), a person is not justified in using deadly physical force upon another person unless the person reasonably believes that the other person is:
(1) Committing or attempting to commit a felony involving the use or threatened imminent use of physical force against a person; or
(2) Committing or attempting to commit a burglary in a dwelling; or
(3) Using or about to use unlawful deadly physical force against a person.

ORS 161.219. There are obvious differences in the wording of the Oregon law and the Florida law. The Oregon law makes no reference to a “duty to retreat” nor does it use the words: “stand his or her ground.” If just looking at the Oregon statute, knowing when the use of deadly force in self-defense outside of the home is legal does not appear quite as clear compared to the Florida law."

" The Oregon Supreme Court says you have no duty to retreat outside of your home."
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Governor Tom McCall also made it legal to shoot Californians attempting to come over the border.
 
From the same law firm's www page:

It has been 41 years since the Oregon legislature passed ORS 161.219. For at least 25 years it has required a duty to retreat, and for the last seven it has not. Perhaps the Oregon legislature should consider revisiting and clarifying ORS 161.219.

It seems all the stand your ground laws and courts reversing their previous rulings occurred after 2005.
 
Zimmerman is the 'wrong' minority. I think this is going to have some negative blowback for the Dems, outside of their LIVs who don't really care about facts.

The half-white Obama and Holder need to keep their other half credibility, though. :sigh:

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/07/16/Holder-DOJ-witch-hunt

On Tuesday evening, Robert Zimmerman, brother of George Zimmerman, responded to reports that Eric Holder’s Department of Justice had solicited the public for information about George that could help a federal civil rights prosecution. The DOJ has even set up an email address for tips on Zimmerman.

In an exclusive interview with Breitbart News, Robert labeled the effort a “witch hunt,” asking, “How many other individuals has the DOJ witch-hunted in this way? I think that the state of FL when they embarked on their malicious prosecution of George would have liked nothing more than for he FBI to uncover any sign of racism that could be attributed to George. The FBI interviewed three dozen people who were close to George for any indication that George was a racist or had racist tendencies. What their investigation revealed thus far is that quite the opposite is true.

“Political persecution has reached a dimension unforeseen by many,” Robert Zimmerman continued. “It is inconceivable that high-ranking officials would endorse this kind of behavior. It is profoundly disserving that they facilitate it. I would remind the Department of Justice that a verdict has been reached in this case, and that the reputation of Sanford, Florida and the trust of the people of Sanford, Florida in regards to their law enforcement agencies is more important than continuing politically motivated and race-tinged assaults on an innocent man’s character.”
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Obama needs to keep us all warring with each other, while all of DC continues to get rich on our backs.
 
These white-Hispanics need to know their place. It isn't in the Obama/Holder plan...

032813-national-robert-zimmerman-piers-morgan-interview-apology-for-tweet.jpg
 
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