zing! White House & State Dept it was Islamic Militants in Libya 2 hrs after attack.

[noknobs]

Re: zing! White House & State Dept it was Islamic Militants in Libya 2 hrs after att

Do you agree with the Commander and Chief's decision to tell rescuers to stand down?

Uh, he didn't... It was "officials in the CIA chain of command" who gave that order...

 

[DaLincolnJones]

Re: zing! White House & State Dept it was Islamic Militants in Libya 2 hrs after att

man, that was a lot of work to dig through all the miss information. Very admirable. To find the few nuggets of truth mixed in with all the lies, of corse post tense may have been easier, especialy if one wanted to put a happy face on the way it was handled from barry on down. Shit, I bet if you shot that to CNN, they would run it word for word.

Still...it does not make all the times that barry stood up, on camera, in front of the UN, for weeks on end, and state the video was the problem..

 

[noknobs]

Re: zing! White House & State Dept it was Islamic Militants in Libya 2 hrs after att

man, that was a lot of work to dig through all the miss information. Very admirable. To find the few nuggets of truth mixed in with all the lies, of corse post tense may have been easier, especialy if one wanted to put a happy face on the way it was handled from barry on down. Shit, I bet if you shot that to CNN, they would run it word for word.

Still...it does not make all the times that barry stood up, on camera, in front of the UN, for weeks on end, and state the video was the problem..

Woah, I didn't realize his speech went on for so long...

Nobody's putting a happy face on this. My frowny face is just directed at different people. If new shit comes to light that incriminates the President directly I'll obviously change my opinion.

 

[PapaG]

Re: zing! White House & State Dept it was Islamic Militants in Libya 2 hrs after att

Obama just refused to answer who gave the "stand down" order during an interview with a Denver TV station. Even more odd, he apparently laughs before giving a non-answer.

Video will apparently be released soon.

 

[e_blazer]

Re: zing! White House & State Dept it was Islamic Militants in Libya 2 hrs after att

Noknobs, hey I appreciate you putting together the chronology of events. It all kind of blurs together after awhile. I couldn't help but note that you left out Obama's UN address on Sept. 25th where he featured Chris Stevens' death in his remarks and made multiple references to the YouTube video and not a single reference to terrorism. Basically, from Sept. 11th to the 20th, when Carney admitted that it was "self-evident" that it was a terrorist attack, there were only tangential references to terrorism being involved. Even after that, through Obama's appearance on The View and his UN speech, the primary spin being given by the President was that the video played a big role in what happened. Given that there was real-time video and an e-mail from Benghazi within 2 hours of the attack indicating that it was an organized, well-armed, group that was carrying out the attack, and given that an al-Qaeda affiliate claimed responsibility for the attack, it's just not plausible to me that there was any notion by the Administration from day 1 that this was anything other than a terrorist attack. A president an his administration willfully misleading the country on an event like this is a big deal to me and I think it would be to any objective citizen. There are many questions that will be looked at in the coming weeks, but I think it's very interesting that the President hasn't held a press conference to present his side of this story.

You say that it's pathetic an sickening that the right would use this for political gain. What could be more relevant to a decision about who should lead this country than the actions of a President and his administration in an actual political crisis? In an election that's been marked by both sides trying to parse every comment into silly gotcha phrases, an actual event of this importance should be overlooked? Hardly. In fact, I'd say it's outrageous that the major news organizations aren't demanding some answers to what happened in Libya.

 

[noknobs]

Re: zing! White House & State Dept it was Islamic Militants in Libya 2 hrs after att

Noknobs, hey I appreciate you putting together the chronology of events. It all kind of blurs together after awhile. I couldn't help but note that you left out Obama's UN address on Sept. 25th where he featured Chris Stevens' death in his remarks and made multiple references to the YouTube video and not a single reference to terrorism.

Yep I missed that, DaLincolnJones brought that up as well. Referencing the video at the U.N. address was necessary since there had been protests in 20 countries by then. He did reference extremists multiple times but not terrorism specifically. By then they had said it was self-evident that it was terrorism so it is weird that the word wasn't said at all. I guess my argument would be that terrorism and responding to the video aren't mutually exclusive. And even a couple on Fox have said recently that the video could have been part of the cause at Benghazi, along with Ahmed Abu Khattab last week. I don't think it's been proven that the video wasn't partially to blame, but it is still obviously terrorism.

Basically, from Sept. 11th to the 20th, when Carney admitted that it was "self-evident" that it was a terrorist attack, there were only tangential references to terrorism being involved. Even after that, through Obama's appearance on The View and his UN speech, the primary spin being given by the President was that the video played a big role in what happened. Given that there was real-time video and an e-mail from Benghazi within 2 hours of the attack indicating that it was an organized, well-armed, group that was carrying out the attack, and given that an al-Qaeda affiliate claimed responsibility for the attack, it's just not plausible to me that there was any notion by the Administration from day 1 that this was anything other than a terrorist attack. A president an his administration willfully misleading the country on an event like this is a big deal to me and I think it would be to any objective citizen. There are many questions that will be looked at in the coming weeks, but I think it's very interesting that the President hasn't held a press conference to present his side of this story.

Several things. An email referencing Facebook and twitter isn't evidence. But if we are to believe everything that group says, then we should believe leaders associated with that group when they said the video was the cause. Attackers even told a reporter that it was due to the video on the 11th. There seems to be a lot of conflicting info which is to be expected and takes time to get through.

Also well armed and relatively organized isn't proof that it was premeditated. As I said, Benghazi militia leaders who know Ansar al-Shariah claim it’s capable of carrying out the attack by itself with only a few hours of planning. But we both agree, there are alot of questions that need to be answered.

 

[oldguy]

Re: zing! White House & State Dept it was Islamic Militants in Libya 2 hrs after att

Uh, he didn't... It was "officials in the CIA chain of command" who gave that order...

Who is responsible for the CIA's actions?

 

[3RA1N1AC]

Re: zing! White House & State Dept it was Islamic Militants in Libya 2 hrs after att

Who is responsible for the CIA's actions?

the cia does alot of shit the president doesnt need or want to know about

just ask oliver north

 

[PapaG]

Re: zing! White House & State Dept it was Islamic Militants in Libya 2 hrs after att

It's about time the so-called "journalists" start reporting this clusterfuck.

Benghazi: Obama Begs Off Answering Whether Americans Were Denied Help

ABC ^ | Jake Tapper

In an interview with a Denver TV reporter Friday, President Obama twice refused to answer questions as to whether the Americans under siege in Benghazi, Libya on September 11, 2012, were denied requests for help, saying he's waiting for the results of investigations before making any conclusions about what went wrong.

After being asked about possible denials of requests for aid, and whether it's fair to tell Americans that what happened is under investigation and won't be released until after the election, the president said, "the election has nothing to do with four brave Americans getting killed and us wanting to find out exactly what happened. These are folks who served under me."

http://abcnews.go.com/m/blogEntry?id=17575850

The election is secondary, Mr. President.

What did he know, and when did he know it? Why was he so adamant that a video was to blame, and that it was a spontaneous protest, that he gave a UN address claiming as such????

 

[PapaG]

Re: zing! White House & State Dept it was Islamic Militants in Libya 2 hrs after att

Yep I missed that, DaLincolnJones brought that up as well. Referencing the video at the U.N. address was necessary since there had been protests in 20 countries by then. He did reference extremists multiple times but not terrorism specifically. By then they had said it was self-evident that it was terrorism so it is weird that the word wasn't said at all. I guess my argument would be that terrorism and responding to the video aren't mutually exclusive. And even a couple on Fox have said recently that the video could have been part of the cause at Benghazi, along with Ahmed Abu Khattab last week. I don't think it's been proven that the video wasn't partially to blame, but it is still obviously terrorism.



Several things. An email referencing Facebook and twitter isn't evidence. But if we are to believe everything that group says, then we should believe leaders associated with that group when they said the video was the cause. Attackers even told a reporter that it was due to the video on the 11th. There seems to be a lot of conflicting info which is to be expected and takes time to get through.

Also well armed and relatively organized isn't proof that it was premeditated. As I said, Benghazi militia leaders who know Ansar al-Shariah claim it’s capable of carrying out the attack by itself with only a few hours of planning. But we both agree, there are alot of questions that need to be answered.

Where was the evidence that it was a Youtube video? There is none from the intelligence community regarding this attack. Why did Obama go in front of the world and proclaim this was because of a Youtube video, when that clearly was not the case.

Also, why is the Youtube guy still in federal custody, and why doesn't he get bail or a hearing until 3 days after the election?

Answer these questions, please.

 

[PapaG]

Re: zing! White House & State Dept it was Islamic Militants in Libya 2 hrs after att

the cia does alot of shit the president doesnt need or want to know about

just ask oliver north

The CIA doesn't have the authority to call off a military action.

Scandal of the century so far here, and watching the various governmental divisions start aiming at each other is good theater, if it weren't so sad that men died for no reason, and that the President won't be upfront about why.

 

[PapaG]

Re: zing! White House & State Dept it was Islamic Militants in Libya 2 hrs after att

Must be lonely for these guys. Target the mortars, call for help, and help is refused 3x within a few hours.

http://www.blackfive.net/main/2012/...at-the-president-is-lying-about-benghazi.html

US Troops Wouldn't Have Been Painting Targets on Ground Unless There Was Air Support

Having spent a good bit of time nursing a GLD (ground Laser Designator) in several garden spots around the world, something from the report jumped out at me.

One of the former SEALs was actively painting the target. That means that Specter WAS ON STATION! Probably an AC130U. A ground laser designator is not a briefing pointer laser. You do not “paint” a target until the weapons system/designator is synched; which means that the AC130 was on station.

Only two places could have called off the attack at that point; the WH situation command (based on POTUS direction) or AFRICOM commander based on information directly from the target area.

If the AC130 never left Sigonella (as Penetta says) that means that the Predator that was filming the whole thing was armed.

If that SEAL was actively “painting” a target; something was on station to engage! And the decision to stand down goes directly to POTUS!

 

[PapaG]

Re: zing! White House & State Dept it was Islamic Militants in Libya 2 hrs after att

I'll add that the fact that the Obama supporters are now turning on the CIA shows that there are legs to this debacle.

It's much worse than a scandal. This is the end of Obama's presidency.

 

[barfo]

Re: zing! White House & State Dept it was Islamic Militants in Libya 2 hrs after att

I wonder if W was warned prior to 9/11 that Al Queda intended to strike within the US using hijacked planes.

barfo

 

[PapaG]

Re: zing! White House & State Dept it was Islamic Militants in Libya 2 hrs after att

I wonder if W was warned prior to 9/11 that Al Queda intended to strike within the US using hijacked planes.

barfo

Bush's fault!!

Circling the drain. FLUSH

 

[julius]

Re: zing! White House & State Dept it was Islamic Militants in Libya 2 hrs after att

I wonder if W was warned prior to 9/11 that Al Queda intended to strike within the US using hijacked planes.

barfo

why are you blaming Bush for Libya?

We all know that was Clintons fault.

 

[Denny Crane]

Re: zing! White House & State Dept it was Islamic Militants in Libya 2 hrs after att

I wonder if W was warned prior to 9/11 that Al Queda intended to strike within the US using hijacked planes.

barfo

That puts O in pretty good company (with W).

 

[PapaG]

Re: zing! White House & State Dept it was Islamic Militants in Libya 2 hrs after att

New photo of Amb. Stevens released tonight.

Notice different pants, and clearly wasn't being "helped to the hospital", as we were told here and in other places, including the White House.

EDIT - photo was too graphic.

Can anybody explain to me how this is not a fuck-up/scandal of epic proportions by the White House?

 

[BrianFromWA]

Re: zing! White House & State Dept it was Islamic Militants in Libya 2 hrs after att

The CIA doesn't have the authority to call off a military action.

I'm trying to stay out of this thread, but you're right at this part. Strictly speaking, if there were Tier One units available, they would've been under the command of either AFRICOM (or EUCOM, since AFRICOM has few tactical units at its disposal) or SOCOM through one of the Special Operations Joint Task Forces (JSOTFs).

But the part you didn't say here is that the US ambassador in a country has final say in all matters -- military and diplomatic -- unless countermanded by the President. So if (and I have no idea if this is the case or not) the Ambassador said "don't come here, it's too dangerous" or "I can hold them off with what i have" or "it's not that bad, don't bring troops here" then the DoD commanders can't send troops in without the President overriding the Ambassador. However, if the Ambassador's asking for help, then it's up to SECDEF to order his Combatant Commanders (AFRICOM, SOCOM, EUCOM, whoever) to accomplish the mission with whatever parameters (limit civilian casualties, bomb everything, take prisoners, whatever) he wishes.

I wish I could say more here, sorry.

 

[julius]

Re: zing! White House & State Dept it was Islamic Militants in Libya 2 hrs after att

New photo of Amb. Stevens released tonight.

Notice different pants, and clearly wasn't being "helped to the hospital", as we were told here and in other places, including the White House.

EDIT - photo was too graphic.

Can anybody explain to me how this is not a fuck-up/scandal of epic proportions by the White House?

because not all of us wear tin foil hats

 

[maxiep]

Re: zing! White House & State Dept it was Islamic Militants in Libya 2 hrs after att

I have every confidence the government and the press will get to the bottom of what happened in Libya on September 11th. Of course, it will only be fully investigated after November 6th. After that, there will be people who fall on their sword to keep a re-elected President Obama from being impeached.

 

[DaLincolnJones]

Re: zing! White House & State Dept it was Islamic Militants in Libya 2 hrs after att

I'll add that the fact that the Obama supporters are now turning on the CIA shows that there are legs to this debacle.

It's much worse than a scandal. This is the end of Obama's presidency.

I wish this was the case, but just when I feel like the main stream media might pick the ball up, I catch CNN this AM, they are going to do a piece, www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/ "Romney Revealed" at 8 p.m. and "Obama Revealed" at 9:30. on sunday. Just the tone so far is reason to tune in and see how fair this will be.....

 

[DaLincolnJones]

Re: zing! White House & State Dept it was Islamic Militants in Libya 2 hrs after att

I'm trying to stay out of this thread, but you're right at this part. Strictly speaking, if there were Tier One units available, they would've been under the command of either AFRICOM (or EUCOM, since AFRICOM has few tactical units at its disposal) or SOCOM through one of the Special Operations Joint Task Forces (JSOTFs).

But the part you didn't say here is that the US ambassador in a country has final say in all matters -- military and diplomatic -- unless countermanded by the President. So if (and I have no idea if this is the case or not) the Ambassador said "don't come here, it's too dangerous" or "I can hold them off with what i have" or "it's not that bad, don't bring troops here" then the DoD commanders can't send troops in without the President overriding the Ambassador. However, if the Ambassador's asking for help, then it's up to SECDEF to order his Combatant Commanders (AFRICOM, SOCOM, EUCOM, whoever) to accomplish the mission with whatever parameters (limit civilian casualties, bomb everything, take prisoners, whatever) he wishes.

I wish I could say more here, sorry.

thanks Brian

 

[DaLincolnJones]

Re: zing! White House & State Dept it was Islamic Militants in Libya 2 hrs after att

interesting

 

[oldguy]

Re: zing! White House & State Dept it was Islamic Militants in Libya 2 hrs after att

interesting

So the former head of the CIA's Bin Laden unit says the POTUS absolutely would have been briefed the minute that call for help came in. This sure seems like a guy that would know the protocol for how this cry for help would have been handled.

All of the President's supporters should listen to this vid. (Read BrianfromWA's post, too, if you haven't.)

Maybe there is a reason that isn't apparent to me that our leaders decided to let these men die, but regardless of the reason, that is the decision they made. Anyone that can't see that has their fingers in their ears, shouting lalalalalalalalalalala.

 

[TradeNurkicNow]

Re: zing! White House & State Dept it was Islamic Militants in Libya 2 hrs after att

Anyone care to make a prediction as to the reason why all this happened the way it did?

 

[PapaG]

Re: zing! White House & State Dept it was Islamic Militants in Libya 2 hrs after att

Anyone care to make a prediction as to the reason why all this happened the way it did?

I blame Mitt Romney.

 

[barfo]

Re: zing! White House & State Dept it was Islamic Militants in Libya 2 hrs after att

Anyone care to make a prediction as to the reason why all this happened the way it did?

I blame Herman Cain:

Blame it on Cain.
Don't blame it on me.
Oh, oh, it's nobody's fault,
but we need somebody to burn.

barfo

 

[TradeNurkicNow]

Re: zing! White House & State Dept it was Islamic Militants in Libya 2 hrs after att

I blame Mitt Romney.

That's just about as plausible as anything else you've said in this thread. Do you have a real answer?

 

[Denny Crane]

Barfo's fault.