2008 Blake V. 2009 Miller - Advanced Statistical Comparison

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RR7 said:
Nothing. It has to do with effective ways to beat a press.
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Blake had one TO against the press.

Miller missed 2 FTs, "led" the offense to a shot clock violation, and missed a shot within a span of 1 minute (2:30 to 1:30).

Luckily, Blake hit a huge 3 with :25 left and he and Miller hits FTs to seal the win.

BLANKY!
 
Blake comes off more and more selfish to me, though. Scary thoughts in my head.
 
2 TOS

4:39 64-76 Steve Blake lost ball (Rodney Stuckey steals)
1:07 75-78 Steve Blake bad pass (DaJuan Summers steals)
 
What do FTs have to do with beating the press?
 
PapaG said:
Which comparative stats say Roy shouldn't be handling the ball to break a full-court press?
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You gotta be kidding me.

You make the statement:

PapaC said:
Roy? The comparative stats say he should be.
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I respond with:

blazerboy30 said:
Which comparative stats say Roy should be handling the ball to break a full-court press?
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And you answer somebody questioning your silly claim with:

PapaG said:
Which comparative stats say Roy shouldn't be handling the ball to break a full-court press?
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This lack of logic is just idiotic. You're rivaling Maris here.
 
If you're going to compare two players don't you think it's only fair to use same year stats, this cherry picking stuff is outright laughable.
 
blazerboy30 said:
You gotta be kidding me.

You make the statement:



I respond with:



And you answer somebody questioning your silly claim with:



This lack of logic is just idiotic. You're rivaling Maris here.
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Roy was the primary ball-handler last year in the 4th. The team had a much better efficiency last year than they do this year, with Miller running the show.

Hence, "comparative stats" tell me Roy should be handling the ball. :dunno:

Bring some stats to support your argument.

Or don't, and continue to call me "idiotic" and "silly" without any counter evidence.
 
Last edited:
Nikolokolus said:
If you're going to compare two players don't you think it's only fair to use same year stats, this cherry picking stuff is outright laughable.
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Cherry-picking? Find me a data set that says this year's offense under Miller is thus far better than last year's offense under Blake.

Criticize me if you want, that's pretty much what I expected when I found this data that flies in the face of the so-called experts here, but at the very least, try and support your criticism with some factual data.

Then I'll respect your calling my data "laughable".
 
PapaG said:
Cherry-picking? Find me a data set that says this year's offense under Miller is thus far better than last year's offense under Blake.
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Apples and Oranges.

As has been pointed out repeatedly, this year's team is not last year's team. Different starting SF. Different starting C. Different starting SG.

The only position constant between last year and this in the starting five is LMA and yet with all those differences you expect a fair comparison? I don't think so.

Kinda like saying "I got dealt a Flush by Blake". Now let me shuffle the deck. Hey! Miller only dealt me a pair!

Sure many of the players are still the same but some are now playing different positions, different minutes, some didn't get dealt (injuries, trades, etc.)

I don't think you can make any kind of a "fair" comparison between last year and this. The only comparison we can make is this year to this year. And even that is suspicious as Blake is playing a fair amount of his time as an SG whereas Miller is playing nearly exclusively PG.

Gramps...
 
PapaG said:
Roy was the primary ball-handler last year in the 4th. The team had a much better efficiency last year than they do this year, with Miller running the show.

Hence, "comparative stats" tell me Roy should be handling the ball. :dunno:
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Where in the above paragraph did you post "comparative stats"? Or did you mean "comparative opinion"? Or are you trying to extrapolate out from an incredibly small sample set? Or, are you trying to use data that has vastly different variables?

I know why you use the :dunno:. Because you clearly "dunno" what you're saying.

PapaG said:
Bring some stats to support your argument.
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This is the most laughable part of your lack of logic. I didn't make an argument that involved Roy. I asked you which "comparative stats" supported YOUR argument.

Congrats. You're building some impressive strawmen.
 
What a ridiculous waste of time. Comparing last year's Blake to this your's Miller is nonsense. Last year was a career year for Blake. If you want a valid comparison, compare last year's Miller (PER = 18.6) to last year's Blake (PER = 14.4) or this year's Miller (PER = 14.3) to this year's Blake (PER = 9.5). In order to have a valid comparison, you need to compare the players at the same point in time.

Miller may be in decline (sample size too small to say for sure), but if he is, Blake is in an even more rapid decline and was not as good to begin with. The real question here shouldn't be who is better, this year's Miller or last year's Blake, it should be who should be starting at PG this season. Miller is clearly out producing Blake this year (care to post the stats or both THIS season? - I thought not). I have no problem with Blake coming off the bench backing up Miller, but right now Blake is an undersized shooting guard who can't shoot.

This is (so far) the worst year of Miller's career statistically (PER = 14.3. previous career low = 15.2 - better than Blake's career high) and it's still nearly identical to Blake's career year of PER = 14.4 last season. And Miller's PER has been on the rise since he's been starting in spite of the fact that he's been forced to play with our best player playing out of position and a "shooting guard" who can seem to throw the ball in the ocean 0.364 FG%, 9.5 PER).

The sample size is ridiculously small (Miller has started a total of 8 games < 1/10th of a season) and comparing win shares for someone who has played 381 minutes in 13 games to someone who played 2188 minutes on 69 games is totally bogus.

Why don't you get back to us when you have a statistically significant sample size - perhaps at the end of the season when Miller has hopefully had a chance to play next to Brandon Roy at shooting guard and a legitimate small forward.

BNM
 
THE ONLY STAT THAT MATTERS:

Blazers with Blake as the starting point guard 2-3
Blazers with Miller as the starting point guard 7-1

CASE CLOSED
 
As I suspected, not a single poster can tell me how Miller is an upgrade over what Blake provided last season.

Instead, I get ad hominem attacks.

Excuse me if I take none of you seriously from this point forward. Now go ahead and keep bashing Steve Blake while excusing Andre Miller. :devilwink:
 
Boob-No-More said:
What a ridiculous waste of time. Comparing last year's Blake to this your's Miller is nonsense. Last year was a career year for Blake. If you want a valid comparison, compare last year's Miller (PER = 18.6) to last year's Blake (PER = 14.4) or this year's Miller (PER = 14.3) to this year's Blake (PER = 9.5). In order to have a valid comparison, you need to compare the players at the same point in time.

Miller may be in decline (sample size too small to say for sure), but if he is, Blake is in an even more rapid decline and was not as good to begin with. The real question here shouldn't be who is better, this year's Miller or last year's Blake, it should be who should be starting at PG this season. Miller is clearly out producing Blake this year (care to post the stats or both THIS season? - I thought not). I have no problem with Blake coming off the bench backing up Miller, but right now Blake is an undersized shooting guard who can't shoot.

This is (so far) the worst year of Miller's career statistically (PER = 14.3. previous career low = 15.2 - better than Blake's career high) and it's still nearly identical to Blake's career year of PER = 14.4 last season. And Miller's PER has been on the rise since he's been starting in spite of the fact that he's been forced to play with our best player playing out of position and a "shooting guard" who can seem to throw the ball in the ocean 0.364 FG%, 9.5 PER).

The sample size is ridiculously small (Miller has started a total of 8 games < 1/10th of a season) and comparing win shares for someone who has played 381 minutes in 13 games to someone who played 2188 minutes on 69 games is totally bogus.

Why don't you get back to us when you have a statistically significant sample size - perhaps at the end of the season when Miller has hopefully had a chance to play next to Brandon Roy at shooting guard and a legitimate small forward.

BNM
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A small sample size hasn't stopped people as "important" here as Producers blasting Steve Blake for his 9.5 PER.

Again, find me a data set that says this year's offense is better than last year's offense. Nobody can do it.
 
PapaG said:
As I suspected, not a single poster can tell me how Miller is an upgrade over what Blake provided last season.

Instead, I get ad hominem attacks.

Excuse me if I take none of you seriously from this point forward. Now go ahead and keep bashing Steve Blake while excusing Andre Miller. :devilwink:
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Last season is last season. Blake isn't playing as well this year.

With that said, I think it was mentioned that Miller is much better at drawing fouls, and ten times better at getting the ball into the post.
 
Natebishop3 said:
Last season is last season. Blake isn't playing as well this year.
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Miller isn't playing as well as Blake last year either. Perhaps Blake is playing out of position. No one will acknowledge that Miller, statistically, has been a downgrade.

With that said, I think it was mentioned that Miller is much better at drawing fouls, and ten times better at getting the ball into the post.
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Could be. The advanced don't show it yet, but if Miller keeps on playing like he did last night, perhaps he'll be an upgrade over Blake at PG with Roy at SG.
 
PapaG said:
Miller isn't playing as well as Blake last year either. Perhaps Blake is playing out of position. No one will acknowledge that Miller, statistically, has been a downgrade.
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Yes, but by that logic, playing Miller is still a correct decision because 2009 Blake is an even bigger downgrade than 2009 Miller. (From 2008 Blake)
 
B-Roy said:
Yes, but by that logic, playing Miller is still a correct decision because 2009 Blake is an even bigger downgrade than 2009 Miller. (From 2008 Blake)
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Except Miller is the variable that wasn't there last year, and Miller is Blake's replacement at PG.

So ... find me some stats. I'm willing to debate them, but nobody outside of RR7 (Oden vs. Przy) has even attempted to validate their opinion with anything outside of, well, their opinion.
 
PapaG said:
Except Miller is the variable that wasn't there last year, and Miller is Blake's replacement at PG.

So ... find me some stats. I'm willing to debate them, but nobody outside of RR7 (Oden vs. Przy) has even attempted to validate their opinion with anything outside of, well, their opinion.
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Ah, but I already pointed out, we are 7-1 with Miller as our starting point guard. We are off to the best start in years. Does that not matter?
 
Natebishop3 said:
Ah, but I already pointed out, we are 7-1 with Miller as our starting point guard. We are off to the best start in years. Does that not matter?
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In terms of offensive efficiency versus last year, it doesn't matter. In terms of me being happy as a fan of the Blazers (outside of reading this board at times), it does matter.

That said, BLANKY'S Win% is much higher than anybody else on the roster this year. Does that mean that BLANKY should be the SG over Roy?
 
PapaG said:
I get that. I'm just wondering where calling a poster "crazy" falls in the TOS/personal insult arena.
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But im not attacking u, im worried about you....like maybe you need to get evaluated
 
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