2008 GM Draft 1 Peer Evaluation Thread

Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Register Log in
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kid Chocolate @ Aug 4 2008, 09:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Aug 5 2008, 12:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>http://www.82games.com/0708/07DEN7A.HTM

See the bottom of the page, "hands rating"</div>


http://www.82games.com/0708/07SAS20A.HTM

JR Smith has a higher bball IQ than Tim Duncan!
</div>

Or maybe you really underestimate (with your eyes, no less) how good Smith is.

You might consider they play different positions, too. Duncan's hands rating is probably very good compared to other centers or PFs.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Aug 4 2008, 11:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Aug 4 2008, 08:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I'm now dumber for reading this stuff

Nash's BBall IQ didn't go up when he went to PHX. He was the same heady player that he was in college.

PER has absolutely nothing to do with BBall IQ. Any attempted inference relating the two is moronic.

JR Smith has a low BBall IQ. His decision making is getting better, but he is still dumb on the court.

Bogut has a very high BBall IQ.</div>

I appreciate your opinions.

Do they have some standardized BBall IQ test that I missed seeing the scores from?
</div>

Similar to Real Estate: Observation, observation, observation

BBall IQ is another way of talking about how good of a decision maker is on the court. No site charts that (although teams do)
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Aug 5 2008, 12:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kid Chocolate @ Aug 4 2008, 09:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Aug 5 2008, 12:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>http://www.82games.com/0708/07DEN7A.HTM

See the bottom of the page, "hands rating"</div>


http://www.82games.com/0708/07SAS20A.HTM

JR Smith has a higher bball IQ than Tim Duncan!
</div>

Or maybe you really underestimate (with your eyes, no less) how good Smith is.
</div>

Try to stay on topic. This isn't about how good JR Smith is. It's about his bball IQ.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kid Chocolate @ Aug 4 2008, 09:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Aug 5 2008, 12:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kid Chocolate @ Aug 4 2008, 09:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Aug 5 2008, 12:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>http://www.82games.com/0708/07DEN7A.HTM

See the bottom of the page, "hands rating"</div>


http://www.82games.com/0708/07SAS20A.HTM

JR Smith has a higher bball IQ than Tim Duncan!
</div>

Or maybe you really underestimate (with your eyes, no less) how good Smith is.
</div>

Try to stay on topic. This isn't about how good JR Smith is. It's about his bball IQ.
</div>

You have YOUR OPINION. I have mine.

Since there is no standardized bball IQ test, the stats I've brought up are the only OBJECTIVE (subjective means opinion) means to measure these things.

If a guy makes 10 bad decisions a game and scores 100 PPG by himself and his team wins by an average of 50, what's his IQ?
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Aug 5 2008, 12:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>http://www.82games.com/0708/07DEN7A.HTM

See the bottom of the page, "hands rating"</div>

Not all bad decisions end up in turnovers.

Stats never tell the entire story and are often misinterpreted. Which is what is happening here.

I'll try to find the quote later, but during the season, George Karl was asked about playing JR Smith some minutes at PG and he essentially replied why would I play the worst decision maker on the team at PG.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Aug 5 2008, 12:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>You have YOUR OPINION. I have mine.

Since there is no standardized bball IQ test, the stats I've brought up are the only OBJECTIVE (subjective means opinion) means to measure these things.</div>

Don't patronize me.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Aug 5 2008, 12:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>If a guy makes 10 bad decisions a game and scores 100 PPG by himself and his team wins by an average of 50, what's his IQ?</div>

Let me get my calculator out.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Aug 5 2008, 12:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Since there is no standardized bball IQ test, the stats I've brought up are the only OBJECTIVE (subjective means opinion) means to measure these things.</div>

Yes, stats do measure some things. However, stats fail to provide a logical basis when they are used to describe things that they don't actually measure.

BBall IQ is purely based upon observation.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Aug 4 2008, 09:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Aug 5 2008, 12:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>http://www.82games.com/0708/07DEN7A.HTM

See the bottom of the page, "hands rating"</div>

Not all bad decisions end up in turnovers.

Stats never tell the entire story and are often misinterpreted. Which is what is happening here.

I'll try to find the quote later, but during the season, George Karl was asked about playing JR Smith some minutes at PG and he essentially replied why would I play the worst decision maker on the team at PG.
</div>

OK, so take a guess (that's the best you can do) as to how many bad decisions didn't turn into turnovers...

Why would Karl play a really tall guy who's pure SG at PG?
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Aug 5 2008, 12:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kid Chocolate @ Aug 4 2008, 09:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Aug 5 2008, 12:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kid Chocolate @ Aug 4 2008, 09:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Aug 5 2008, 12:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>http://www.82games.com/0708/07DEN7A.HTM

See the bottom of the page, "hands rating"</div>


http://www.82games.com/0708/07SAS20A.HTM

JR Smith has a higher bball IQ than Tim Duncan!
</div>

Or maybe you really underestimate (with your eyes, no less) how good Smith is.
</div>

Try to stay on topic. This isn't about how good JR Smith is. It's about his bball IQ.
</div>

You have YOUR OPINION. I have mine.

Since there is no standardized bball IQ test, the stats I've brought up are the only OBJECTIVE (subjective means opinion) means to measure these things.

If a guy makes 10 bad decisions a game and scores 100 PPG by himself and his team wins by an average of 50, what's his IQ?

</div>

Here's what you're missing. You're praising objectivity by using a stat that monitors aspects of the game that describe what people refer to as intelligence. However is intelligence, awareness, and any mental influence on the game measured in exactly the 'hands rating?'

So it's not objective. You have your opinion (opinion means subjective) that these stats (and god knows how intelligence can be summed up exactly in a 3 digit number) accurately and precisely represent the subject manner. Another opinion is that JR Smith is not as an intelligent player as Tim Duncan. Two opinions.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GMJigga @ Aug 4 2008, 09:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Aug 5 2008, 12:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kid Chocolate @ Aug 4 2008, 09:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Aug 5 2008, 12:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kid Chocolate @ Aug 4 2008, 09:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Aug 5 2008, 12:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>http://www.82games.com/0708/07DEN7A.HTM

See the bottom of the page, "hands rating"</div>


http://www.82games.com/0708/07SAS20A.HTM

JR Smith has a higher bball IQ than Tim Duncan!
</div>

Or maybe you really underestimate (with your eyes, no less) how good Smith is.
</div>

Try to stay on topic. This isn't about how good JR Smith is. It's about his bball IQ.
</div>

You have YOUR OPINION. I have mine.

Since there is no standardized bball IQ test, the stats I've brought up are the only OBJECTIVE (subjective means opinion) means to measure these things.

If a guy makes 10 bad decisions a game and scores 100 PPG by himself and his team wins by an average of 50, what's his IQ?

</div>

Here's what you're missing. You're praising objectivity by using a stat that monitors aspects of the game that describe what people refer to as intelligence. However is intelligence, awareness, and any mental influence on the game measured in exactly the 'hands rating?'

So it's not objective. You have your opinion (opinion means subjective) that these stats (and god knows how intelligence can be summed up exactly in a 3 digit number) accurately and precisely represent the subject manner. Another opinion is that JR Smith is not as an intelligent player as Tim Duncan. Two opinions.
</div>

I'm not missing a thing.

I don't take any one stat to be the be-all/end-all. Filling out the stat sheet is the phrase I used. I don't see how a guy can fill it out like Smith does and not have this mythical IQ. It's not like he's a one-dimensional player. All the stats point to him being a better player than the guys he played against. If this isn't a measure of IQ (he's better than opposing players), then what is?
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Aug 5 2008, 12:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GMJigga @ Aug 4 2008, 09:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Aug 5 2008, 12:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kid Chocolate @ Aug 4 2008, 09:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Aug 5 2008, 12:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kid Chocolate @ Aug 4 2008, 09:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Aug 5 2008, 12:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>http://www.82games.com/0708/07DEN7A.HTM

See the bottom of the page, "hands rating"</div>


http://www.82games.com/0708/07SAS20A.HTM

JR Smith has a higher bball IQ than Tim Duncan!
</div>

Or maybe you really underestimate (with your eyes, no less) how good Smith is.
</div>

Try to stay on topic. This isn't about how good JR Smith is. It's about his bball IQ.
</div>

You have YOUR OPINION. I have mine.

Since there is no standardized bball IQ test, the stats I've brought up are the only OBJECTIVE (subjective means opinion) means to measure these things.

If a guy makes 10 bad decisions a game and scores 100 PPG by himself and his team wins by an average of 50, what's his IQ?

</div>

Here's what you're missing. You're praising objectivity by using a stat that monitors aspects of the game that describe what people refer to as intelligence. However is intelligence, awareness, and any mental influence on the game measured in exactly the 'hands rating?'

So it's not objective. You have your opinion (opinion means subjective) that these stats (and god knows how intelligence can be summed up exactly in a 3 digit number) accurately and precisely represent the subject manner. Another opinion is that JR Smith is not as an intelligent player as Tim Duncan. Two opinions.
</div>

I'm not missing a thing.

I don't take any one stat to be the be-all/end-all. Filling out the stat sheet is the phrase I used. I don't see how a guy can fill it out like Smith does and not have this mythical IQ. It's not like he's a one-dimensional player. All the stats point to him being a better player than the guys he played against. If this isn't a measure of IQ (he's better than opposing players), then what is?


</div>

So your example is infallible because you cannot think of any other option? Sounds like a self-affirming bias to me.

All I wanted to do was remind people that throwing out statistics doesn't necessarily mean that you have proof, it is merely support.

edit: and therefore really no better than the 2nd hand accounts given by other posters. Plus, "hands rating?" c'mon now


(just thought I should make that explicit)
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GMJigga @ Aug 4 2008, 09:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Aug 5 2008, 12:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GMJigga @ Aug 4 2008, 09:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Aug 5 2008, 12:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kid Chocolate @ Aug 4 2008, 09:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Aug 5 2008, 12:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kid Chocolate @ Aug 4 2008, 09:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Aug 5 2008, 12:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>http://www.82games.com/0708/07DEN7A.HTM

See the bottom of the page, "hands rating"</div>


http://www.82games.com/0708/07SAS20A.HTM

JR Smith has a higher bball IQ than Tim Duncan!
</div>

Or maybe you really underestimate (with your eyes, no less) how good Smith is.
</div>

Try to stay on topic. This isn't about how good JR Smith is. It's about his bball IQ.
</div>

You have YOUR OPINION. I have mine.

Since there is no standardized bball IQ test, the stats I've brought up are the only OBJECTIVE (subjective means opinion) means to measure these things.

If a guy makes 10 bad decisions a game and scores 100 PPG by himself and his team wins by an average of 50, what's his IQ?

</div>

Here's what you're missing. You're praising objectivity by using a stat that monitors aspects of the game that describe what people refer to as intelligence. However is intelligence, awareness, and any mental influence on the game measured in exactly the 'hands rating?'

So it's not objective. You have your opinion (opinion means subjective) that these stats (and god knows how intelligence can be summed up exactly in a 3 digit number) accurately and precisely represent the subject manner. Another opinion is that JR Smith is not as an intelligent player as Tim Duncan. Two opinions.
</div>

I'm not missing a thing.

I don't take any one stat to be the be-all/end-all. Filling out the stat sheet is the phrase I used. I don't see how a guy can fill it out like Smith does and not have this mythical IQ. It's not like he's a one-dimensional player. All the stats point to him being a better player than the guys he played against. If this isn't a measure of IQ (he's better than opposing players), then what is?


</div>

So your example is infallible because you cannot think of any other option? Sounds like a self-affirming bias to me.

All I wanted to do was remind people that throwing out statistics doesn't necessarily mean that you have proof, it is merely support.
</div>

I do know of another option. I already mentioned the sphincter test, but there's another form of that that's much more reliable than one man's opinion.

I'll let you guess what it is.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Aug 5 2008, 12:37 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GMJigga @ Aug 4 2008, 09:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Aug 5 2008, 12:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GMJigga @ Aug 4 2008, 09:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Aug 5 2008, 12:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kid Chocolate @ Aug 4 2008, 09:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Aug 5 2008, 12:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kid Chocolate @ Aug 4 2008, 09:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Aug 5 2008, 12:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>http://www.82games.com/0708/07DEN7A.HTM

See the bottom of the page, "hands rating"</div>


http://www.82games.com/0708/07SAS20A.HTM

JR Smith has a higher bball IQ than Tim Duncan!
</div>

Or maybe you really underestimate (with your eyes, no less) how good Smith is.
</div>

Try to stay on topic. This isn't about how good JR Smith is. It's about his bball IQ.
</div>

You have YOUR OPINION. I have mine.

Since there is no standardized bball IQ test, the stats I've brought up are the only OBJECTIVE (subjective means opinion) means to measure these things.

If a guy makes 10 bad decisions a game and scores 100 PPG by himself and his team wins by an average of 50, what's his IQ?

</div>

Here's what you're missing. You're praising objectivity by using a stat that monitors aspects of the game that describe what people refer to as intelligence. However is intelligence, awareness, and any mental influence on the game measured in exactly the 'hands rating?'

So it's not objective. You have your opinion (opinion means subjective) that these stats (and god knows how intelligence can be summed up exactly in a 3 digit number) accurately and precisely represent the subject manner. Another opinion is that JR Smith is not as an intelligent player as Tim Duncan. Two opinions.
</div>

I'm not missing a thing.

I don't take any one stat to be the be-all/end-all. Filling out the stat sheet is the phrase I used. I don't see how a guy can fill it out like Smith does and not have this mythical IQ. It's not like he's a one-dimensional player. All the stats point to him being a better player than the guys he played against. If this isn't a measure of IQ (he's better than opposing players), then what is?


</div>

So your example is infallible because you cannot think of any other option? Sounds like a self-affirming bias to me.

All I wanted to do was remind people that throwing out statistics doesn't necessarily mean that you have proof, it is merely support.
</div>

I do know of another option. I already mentioned the sphincter test, but there's another form of that that's much more reliable than one man's opinion.

I'll let you guess what it is.

</div>

I'm not going to post your opinion for you; then I'd just be talking to myself. Why don't you tell me? By "more reliable" do you mean more reliable then the one you used to support your JR Smith opinion?

(For the record I really like JR Smith as a player!)
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Aug 5 2008, 12:37 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GMJigga @ Aug 4 2008, 09:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Aug 5 2008, 12:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GMJigga @ Aug 4 2008, 09:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Aug 5 2008, 12:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kid Chocolate @ Aug 4 2008, 09:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Aug 5 2008, 12:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kid Chocolate @ Aug 4 2008, 09:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Aug 5 2008, 12:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>http://www.82games.com/0708/07DEN7A.HTM

See the bottom of the page, "hands rating"</div>


http://www.82games.com/0708/07SAS20A.HTM

JR Smith has a higher bball IQ than Tim Duncan!
</div>

Or maybe you really underestimate (with your eyes, no less) how good Smith is.
</div>

Try to stay on topic. This isn't about how good JR Smith is. It's about his bball IQ.
</div>

You have YOUR OPINION. I have mine.

Since there is no standardized bball IQ test, the stats I've brought up are the only OBJECTIVE (subjective means opinion) means to measure these things.

If a guy makes 10 bad decisions a game and scores 100 PPG by himself and his team wins by an average of 50, what's his IQ?

</div>

Here's what you're missing. You're praising objectivity by using a stat that monitors aspects of the game that describe what people refer to as intelligence. However is intelligence, awareness, and any mental influence on the game measured in exactly the 'hands rating?'

So it's not objective. You have your opinion (opinion means subjective) that these stats (and god knows how intelligence can be summed up exactly in a 3 digit number) accurately and precisely represent the subject manner. Another opinion is that JR Smith is not as an intelligent player as Tim Duncan. Two opinions.
</div>

I'm not missing a thing.

I don't take any one stat to be the be-all/end-all. Filling out the stat sheet is the phrase I used. I don't see how a guy can fill it out like Smith does and not have this mythical IQ. It's not like he's a one-dimensional player. All the stats point to him being a better player than the guys he played against. If this isn't a measure of IQ (he's better than opposing players), then what is?


</div>

So your example is infallible because you cannot think of any other option? Sounds like a self-affirming bias to me.

All I wanted to do was remind people that throwing out statistics doesn't necessarily mean that you have proof, it is merely support.
</div>

I do know of another option. I already mentioned the sphincter test, but there's another form of that that's much more reliable than one man's opinion.

I'll let you guess what it is.
</div>
Just feel like adding this.

Jason Collins:
3.4
7.5 for his career
but collins net PER from the center position was -12.5, and from PF, -50, hmmm


I guess the fundamental, defensive smart center is an idiot because his PER sucks.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Aug 5 2008, 12:26 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Aug 4 2008, 09:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Aug 5 2008, 12:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>http://www.82games.com/0708/07DEN7A.HTM

See the bottom of the page, "hands rating"</div>

Not all bad decisions end up in turnovers.

Stats never tell the entire story and are often misinterpreted. Which is what is happening here.

I'll try to find the quote later, but during the season, George Karl was asked about playing JR Smith some minutes at PG and he essentially replied why would I play the worst decision maker on the team at PG.
</div>

OK, so take a guess (that's the best you can do) as to how many bad decisions didn't turn into turnovers... </div>

At least 5 defensive lapses per game plus at least 4 missed cutters when he had the ball per game plus at least 2 missed gambles for steals plus ....

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Why would Karl play a really tall guy who's pure SG at PG?</div>

Because AI isn't a PG and JR needed to get playing time.
 
How about a poll of 1M people?

Next best thing would be a poll of the coaches.

Next best would be a poll of all of S2.

Next best thing would be a poll of those in the GM draft.

The thing about polls is that the larger the sample, the more likely you are to consider all variables and the JR Smith "haters" would even out with the fans at the edges of the bell curve.
 
Man I've been around here pulling all nighters for the past week....at least 5 nights of staying up til 5 or 6AM Pacific Time so that I can see the early riser's picks on the east coast...and....it hasn't been this active til now.

I love you guys.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Aug 4 2008, 09:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Aug 5 2008, 12:26 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Aug 4 2008, 09:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Aug 5 2008, 12:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>http://www.82games.com/0708/07DEN7A.HTM

See the bottom of the page, "hands rating"</div>

Not all bad decisions end up in turnovers.

Stats never tell the entire story and are often misinterpreted. Which is what is happening here.

I'll try to find the quote later, but during the season, George Karl was asked about playing JR Smith some minutes at PG and he essentially replied why would I play the worst decision maker on the team at PG.
</div>

OK, so take a guess (that's the best you can do) as to how many bad decisions didn't turn into turnovers... </div>

At least 5 defensive lapses per game plus at least 4 missed cutters when he had the ball per game plus at least 2 missed gambles for steals plus ....

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Why would Karl play a really tall guy who's pure SG at PG?</div>

Because AI isn't a PG and JR needed to get playing time.
</div>


How did Denver ever win games playing him so much!

You'd think the +/- rating would support your guess, but it doesn't. He's a +92 for the season.

For all Bogut's IQ, he's a -133 for the season.
 
My brain hurts.

Putting up points isn't ALL about IQ - it can also be about size, athleticism, luck (right place, right time to catch the ball), bad defense, no defense, quickness, or even...what am I thinking of, muscle memory(?) for shooting skills.

Scoring can be done with 0 basketball IQ. It's a matter of actually watching games and creating observations to find out how a player scores - whether it is because of a reason listed above, or because they really do have good IQ, and know how to score in the best ways.

Same with any other stats - they can be obtained a number of different ways, it's just a matter of watching games to find out how they are obtained to figure out a player's IQ on the court.



Oh, and let me add that when assessing a player's IQ, his team's winning percentage has little to do with it. You must take into consideration coaches, teammates, etc. It's not as simple as "this player's team is the best in the league, therefore he must be a genius!" Because I'm pretty sure Perkins isn't that intelligent.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Aug 5 2008, 12:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>How about a poll of 1M people?

Next best thing would be a poll of the coaches.

Next best would be a poll of all of S2.

Next best thing would be a poll of those in the GM draft.

The thing about polls is that the larger the sample, the more likely you are to consider all variables and the JR Smith "haters" would even out with the fans at the edges of the bell curve.</div>

Thanks Denny. I don't see how this supports anything, but it's a great warm up for kids who will be taking Statistics in high school next year.

You're having convos with a couple of people at a time and that can be kind of a pain. Our conversation was how I thought your "hands rating" was hardly objective when describing JR Smith (who I still have an overall favorable opinion of)
 
denny, seriously, havent you thought as to why bball IQ is not evaluated by numbers?
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GMJigga @ Aug 5 2008, 12:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Aug 5 2008, 12:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>How about a poll of 1M people?

Next best thing would be a poll of the coaches.

Next best would be a poll of all of S2.

Next best thing would be a poll of those in the GM draft.

The thing about polls is that the larger the sample, the more likely you are to consider all variables and the JR Smith "haters" would even out with the fans at the edges of the bell curve.</div>

Thanks Denny. I don't see how this supports anything, but it's a great warm up for kids who will be taking Statistics in high school next year.

You're having convos with a couple of people at a time and that can be kind of a pain. Our conversation was how I thought your "hands rating" was hardly objective when describing JR Smith (who I still have an overall favorable opinion of)
</div>
He's having convos with multiple people, but not addressing anything that they say directly.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GMJigga @ Aug 4 2008, 09:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Aug 5 2008, 12:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>How about a poll of 1M people?

Next best thing would be a poll of the coaches.

Next best would be a poll of all of S2.

Next best thing would be a poll of those in the GM draft.

The thing about polls is that the larger the sample, the more likely you are to consider all variables and the JR Smith "haters" would even out with the fans at the edges of the bell curve.</div>

Thanks Denny. I don't see how this supports anything, but it's a great warm up for kids who will be taking Statistics in high school next year.

You're having convos with a couple of people at a time and that can be kind of a pain. Our conversation was how I thought your "hands rating" was hardly objective when describing JR Smith (who I still have an overall favorable opinion of)
</div>

You can poll people about Smith's IQ, about his decision making, or whatever.

Consider Iverson's hands rating is 24, and Smith's is 10. What does that tell you? Or that Rip's is 20. Or that Ray Allen's is 14.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Aug 5 2008, 12:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>For all Bogut's IQ, he's a -133 for the season.</div>

Now you've switched from "hands rating" (they put the quotes on that themselves!) to +/- to describe IQ.

How can you say it's objective when you yourself have used two separate measures to describe this concept?
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (L @ Aug 4 2008, 09:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>denny, seriously, havent you thought as to why bball IQ is not evaluated by numbers?</div>

Because it's just something you can make up and claim to win an argument?

(That seems to be pretty spot on
)

And not meant to be offensive in any way.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GMJigga @ Aug 4 2008, 09:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Aug 5 2008, 12:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>For all Bogut's IQ, he's a -133 for the season.</div>

Now you've switched from "hands rating" (they put the quotes on that themselves!) to +/- to describe IQ.

How can you say it's objective when you yourself have used two separate measures to describe this concept?
</div>

No

I'm using hands rating to talk about decision making.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Aug 5 2008, 12:58 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>You can poll people about Smith's IQ, about his decision making, or whatever.

Consider Iverson's hands rating is 24, and Smith's is 10. What does that tell you? Or that Rip's is 20. Or that Ray Allen's is 14.</div>

That tells me absolutely nothing. Heck even you switched to +/-

I'm still asking you to support your opinion as to why "hands" is a valid means to describe intelligence.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 1 (members: 0, guests: 1)
Back
Top