2019 Training Camp thread

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Scalma said:
No it wasn’t. It was the right move at the time. Or should Olshey have predicted Matthews, the teams most durable player btw, would blow out his Achilles?

Talk about revisionist history.
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More about CJ (and Will) than Wes. He was just coming into his own and the Afflalo move effectively pushed him down a level. What did Afflalo bring us?
 
Zach is the main addition, he starts at 4 i think, at least if Nurkic's healthy. Whiteside should learn to set a screen the entire team needs to, even though Toronto won the championship absolutely not setting any screens.
Zach getting major minutes with his defense and Whiteside's defense is what should give us the extra edge
 
illmatic99 said:
More about CJ (and Will) than Wes. He was just coming into his own and the Afflalo move effectively pushed him down a level. What did Afflalo bring us?
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The team was playing very well when Matthews went down (5-1) Afflalo was a proven player brought in to beef up a shitty bench. Who knows what would’ve happened if Wes didn’t go down. But we’re now straying from the original topic, because this is more about Olshey than Stotts. If you can’t concede that players GENERALLY, because there are exceptions, play better under Stotts, then I don’t know if this “debate” is worth continuing.
 
Scalma said:
The team was playing very well when Matthews went down (5-1) Afflalo was a proven player brought in to beef up a shitty bench. Who knows what would’ve happened if Wes didn’t go down. But we’re now straying from the original topic, because this is more about Olshey than Stotts. If you can’t concede that players GENERALLY, because there are exceptions, play better under Stotts, then I don’t know if this “debate” is worth continuing.
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Generally, yes. But definitely not universal.
 
Scalma said:
First, let me say this as clearly as possible: From what I’ve been told from a very reliable source inside the Blazers, the team HAS ZERO INTENTION of trading Hassan Whiteside this season.
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First off, thank you for posting this!

Secondly, this aligns with my gut instinct as well. I know national media (hell, a lot of local media as well) viewed Hassan as a stop-gap and his expiring deal as a way to add additional help to the roster once Nurkic returned. While that makes sense on paper, it wasn't adding up to what I was seeing on social media -- which was that Hassan Whiteside was more than thrilled to be in Portland. All of his actions, from renting/buying a house, moving his fish across country, consistently repping the team throughout the summer, and generally just being incredibly excited to be part of the Portland Trail Blazers indicated to me that he knew he wasn't a half-year rental. I'd argue (with no inside knowledge) that Neil, Terry and Co. sat down with Hassan and his agent immediately after the trade to inform them of their intentions. I truly believe the team feels like Hassan + Nurk can coexist long-term. Neil even mentioned Portland playing more "bully ball" during one of his press conferences this summer.
 
HolyBackboard said:
First off, thank you for posting this!

Secondly, this aligns with my gut instinct as well. I know national media (hell, a lot of local media as well) viewed Hassan as a stop-gap and his expiring deal as a way to add additional help to the roster once Nurkic returned. While that makes sense on paper, it wasn't adding up to what I was seeing on social media -- which was that Hassan Whiteside was more than thrilled to be in Portland. All of his actions, from renting/buying a house, moving his fish across country, consistently repping the team throughout the summer, and generally just being incredibly excited to be part of the Portland Trail Blazers indicated to me that he knew he wasn't a half-year rental. I'd argue (with no inside knowledge) that Neil, Terry and Co. sat down with Hassan and his agent immediately after the trade to inform them of their intentions. I truly believe the team feels like Hassan + Nurk can coexist long-term. Neil even mentioned Portland playing more "bully ball" during one of his press conferences this summer.
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Agreed 100%. We Got Shooters!!
 
HolyBackboard said:
First off, thank you for posting this!

Secondly, this aligns with my gut instinct as well. I know national media (hell, a lot of local media as well) viewed Hassan as a stop-gap and his expiring deal as a way to add additional help to the roster once Nurkic returned. While that makes sense on paper, it wasn't adding up to what I was seeing on social media -- which was that Hassan Whiteside was more than thrilled to be in Portland. All of his actions, from renting/buying a house, moving his fish across country, consistently repping the team throughout the summer, and generally just being incredibly excited to be part of the Portland Trail Blazers indicated to me that he knew he wasn't a half-year rental. I'd argue (with no inside knowledge) that Neil, Terry and Co. sat down with Hassan and his agent immediately after the trade to inform them of their intentions. I truly believe the team feels like Hassan + Nurk can coexist long-term. Neil even mentioned Portland playing more "bully ball" during one of his press conferences this summer.
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Ding ding ding. The center market isn’t great as it is, nevermind for a high maintenance guy like Whiteside. He’s not gonna be a fit for everyone, and he’ll be 31 by the time he hits free agency. Look at what 27 year old Kanter had to settle for. If he enjoys his time in Portland I could see him returning as Nurks backup. It’s a lot easier to play “bully ball” when you're not worried about getting in foul trouble.
 
Scalma said:
Ding ding ding. The center market isn’t great as it is, nevermind for a high maintenance guy like Whiteside. He’s not gonna be a fit for everyone, and he’ll be 31 by the time he hits free agency. Look at what 27 year old Kanter had to settle for. If he enjoys his time in Portland I could see him returning as Nurks backup. It’s a lot easier to play “bully ball” when you're not worried about getting in foul trouble.
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yeah if he fits and gels with the team and Nurk he'd be great at something like 8-10 mil per via a 3 yr deal, I don't thing we want to overplay Nurk even when full healthy - 28 to 30 minutes for him is plenty, Hassan gets the other 18-20 and they can both play balls out, Zach can play PF but if he blows up and is better at C then we have a "great problem" to have and could use someone in a trade
 
"First, let me say this as clearly as possible: From what I’ve been told from a very reliable source inside the Blazers, the team HAS ZERO INTENTION of trading Hassan Whiteside this season. Same with Kent Bazemore. They traded for these guys because they think they help push the Blazers into a tier of contenders."

I think it'd be a big mistake to have this mindset. If Portland can trade for an equal player who's at more of a position of need and has more of a chance of being here long-term, they need to do it. We'd have Nurkic, Pau, and Zach who could all play the C spot without Whiteside. Not looking to trade either because they think those players make them good enough to be contenders is silly, because even contenders should look to improve however necessary.

I'm fine keeping Bazemore. He has a chance to be here long-term. I just don't see how Whiteside returns in 2020 with Nurkic back and fully healthy. Nurkic is a franchise pillar, which Quick states. Whiteside won't want to come off the bench for 18-21 minutes a game. I don't see why we'd pay him $10M+ a year to be a 18-21mpg backup either. There'll be teams willing to pay him a decent amount to be their starting C (Golden State, Boston, etc). Some might use Kanter as a comparison but I think Whiteside is a better player and a much easier type of C to fit in with the rest of an NBA team.
 
Scalma said:
Ding ding ding. The center market isn’t great as it is, nevermind for a high maintenance guy like Whiteside. He’s not gonna be a fit for everyone, and he’ll be 31 by the time he hits free agency. Look at what 27 year old Kanter had to settle for. If he enjoys his time in Portland I could see him returning as Nurks backup. It’s a lot easier to play “bully ball” when you're not worried about getting in foul trouble.
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To add to this, Whiteside played 23.3 minutes per game last year. That's backup type minutes. Sure, he might not be happy playing that little but we'll see.
 
BonesJones said:
"First, let me say this as clearly as possible: From what I’ve been told from a very reliable source inside the Blazers, the team HAS ZERO INTENTION of trading Hassan Whiteside this season. Same with Kent Bazemore. They traded for these guys because they think they help push the Blazers into a tier of contenders."

I think it'd be a big mistake to have this mindset. If Portland can trade for an equal player who's at more of a position of need and has more of a chance of being here long-term, they need to do it. We'd have Nurkic, Pau, and Zach who could all play the C spot without Whiteside. Not looking to trade either because they think those players make them good enough to be contenders is silly, because even contenders should look to improve however necessary.

I'm fine keeping Bazemore. He has a chance to be here long-term. I just don't see how Whiteside returns in 2020 with Nurkic back and fully healthy. Nurkic is a franchise pillar, which Quick states. Whiteside won't want to come off the bench for 18-21 minutes a game.
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I think it depends, what do you think the market is for whiteside next year? The market hasnt been extremely kind to Centers that cant stretch the floor. They may be able to keep him.
 
BonesJones said:
I think it'd be a big mistake to have this mindset. If Portland can trade for an equal player who's at more of a position of need and has more of a chance of being here long-term, they need to do it. We'd have Nurkic, Pau, and Zach who could all play the C spot without Whiteside. Not looking to trade either because they think those players make them good enough to be contenders is silly, because even contenders should look to improve however necessary.

I'm fine keeping Bazemore. He has a chance to be here long-term. I just don't see how Whiteside returns in 2020 with Nurkic back and fully healthy. Nurkic is a franchise pillar, which Quick states. Whiteside won't want to come off the bench for 18-21 minutes a game. I don't see why we'd pay him $10M+ a year to be a 18-21mpg backup either. There'll be teams willing to pay him a decent amount to be their starting C (Golden State, Boston, etc). Some might use Kanter as a comparison but I think Whiteside is a better player and a much easier type of C to fit in with the rest of an NBA team.
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I think you're completely undervaluing Whiteside as well as Dame's potential to get him to focus on nothing but Winning at this stage (and age) of his career. Whiteside is among the best shock blockers ever:

List of National Basketball Association single-game blocks leaders
12: Olajuwon, Mutombo, Robinson, Divac, McGee, Whiteside.... "First NBA career triple double. Did not start game. 4 blocks in the last 2 minutes."

Jusuf and Hassan are going to own the boards, mix in Collins and we will own the paint. To me it's like the line in football, completely unsung but absolute key (no pun intended) to domination.
 
BonesJones said:
"First, let me say this as clearly as possible: From what I’ve been told from a very reliable source inside the Blazers, the team HAS ZERO INTENTION of trading Hassan Whiteside this season. Same with Kent Bazemore. They traded for these guys because they think they help push the Blazers into a tier of contenders."

I think it'd be a big mistake to have this mindset. If Portland can trade for an equal player who's at more of a position of need and has more of a chance of being here long-term, they need to do it. We'd have Nurkic, Pau, and Zach who could all play the C spot without Whiteside. Not looking to trade either because they think those players make them good enough to be contenders is silly, because even contenders should look to improve however necessary.

I'm fine keeping Bazemore. He has a chance to be here long-term. I just don't see how Whiteside returns in 2020 with Nurkic back and fully healthy. Nurkic is a franchise pillar, which Quick states. Whiteside won't want to come off the bench for 18-21 minutes a game. I don't see why we'd pay him $10M+ a year to be a 18-21mpg backup either. There'll be teams willing to pay him a decent amount to be their starting C (Golden State, Boston, etc). Some might use Kanter as a comparison but I think Whiteside is a better player and a much easier type of C to fit in with the rest of an NBA team.
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Neil will always entertain a trade or acquisition, if it improves the team. GM's know to never say never!
Unless your source was Neil?
 
HailBlazers said:
I think you're completely undervaluing Whiteside as well as Dame's potential to get him to focus on nothing but Winning at this stage (and age) of his career. Whiteside is among the best shock blockers ever:

List of National Basketball Association single-game blocks leaders
12: Olajuwon, Mutombo, Robinson, Divac, McGee, Whiteside.... "First NBA career triple double. Did not start game. 4 blocks in the last 2 minutes."

Jusuf and Hassan are going to own the boards, mix in Collins and we will own the paint. To me it's like the line in football, completely unsung but absolute key (no pun intended) to domination.
Click to expand...
Is Hassan kills it, his trade value will be higher.

If Hassan kills it, there's no way he'll accept coming off the bench in 2020.

There's no way Nurkic shouldn't be playing upwards of 30 minutes per game as a starter in 2020.

Whiteside and Nurkic can't play together.

To me, it's like having two great QBs and mediocre groups elsewhere.
 
Hoopguru said:
Neil will always entertain a trade or acquisition, if it improves the team. GM's know to never say never!
Unless your source was Neil?
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As he should, which is why I said he shouldn't have this mindset! (I don't really believe Quick to be honest).
 
BonesJones said:
Is Hassan kills it, his trade value will be higher.

If Hassan kills it, there's no way he'll accept coming off the bench in 2020.

There's no way Nurkic shouldn't be playing upwards of 30 minutes per game as a starter in 2020.

Whiteside and Nurkic can't play together.

To me, it's like having two great QBs and mediocre groups elsewhere.
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We don't need him to kill it to be a tremendous asset.

There is if him and Dame hit it off and the Blazers do better than last year.

If you want longevity of your best players their minutes should ebb and flow.

No but they sure as hell can make a two unit defensive Juggernaut that earns home court advantage.

QB's are more like our combo guard problem, both needing the ball in their hands to be effective with weak defense.

“As far as the team, I definitely want to increase on the record from last year. This is potentially the best team I’ve ever played on talent-wise and it’s not many times you get the opportunity you get a real shot at winning the championship. So as a team, I just want to be that defensive anchor and just bring as much as I can to the team.”
 
HailBlazers said:
We don't need him to kill it to be a tremendous asset.

There is if him and Dame hit it off and the Blazers do better than last year.

If you want longevity of your best players their minutes should ebb and flow.

No but they sure as hell can make a two unit defensive Juggernaut that earns home court advantage.

QB's are more like our combo guard problem, both needing the ball in their hands to be effective with weak defense.

“As far as the team, I definitely want to increase on the record from last year. This is potentially the best team I’ve ever played on talent-wise and it’s not many times you get the opportunity you get a real shot at winning the championship. So as a team, I just want to be that defensive anchor and just bring as much as I can to the team.”
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You can play two combo guards together. You cant play 2 QBs together. You can play Dame and CJ together, you cant play Nurk and Whoteside together

With Nurkic, I just dont see how Whitesides long-term value is higher than his value as a trade piece.

And CJ doesnt need the ball to be effective. As a floor spacer, he helps create space. Dame and CJ are good at collapsing the defense to create opportunities for each other. They cover for each other if, for whatever reason, theyre not effective with the ball for a game. They take defensive attention off each other. If an opposing team has one elite defender, the one they dont guard will have an advantage. Etc.
 
BonesJones said:
You can play two combo guards together. You cant play 2 QBs together. You can play Dame and CJ together, you cant play Nurk and Whoteside together

With Nurkic, I just dont see how Whitesides long-term value is higher than his value as a trade piece.

And CJ doesnt need the ball to be effective. As a floor spacer, he helps create space. Dame and CJ are good at collapsing the defense to create opportunities for each other. They cover for each other if, for whatever reason, theyre not effective with the ball for a game. They take defensive attention off each other. If an opposing team has one elite defender, the one they dont guard will have an advantage. Etc.
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Guess I value defense more than you. I just don't see us getting equal defensive value in return for him. To me the D is of utmost importance and rim protection is where it all starts.
 
HailBlazers said:
Guess I value defense more than you. I just don't see us getting equal defensive value in return for him. To me the D is of utmost importance and rim protection is where it all starts.
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I think the idea of Whiteside and Nurk both being the Blazers centers sounds good. Especially because Im not sure the Blazers can trust Nurks health at this point. His size and the way he plays maybe 30-35 minutes a night isnt sustainable.
The issues will be, is Hassans market value greater than what the Blazers can give up. Theres a lot of questions to ask though, trading or not trading Hassan has a lot of variables.
 
A lot will depend on Zach. If he shows out at power forward they’re not going to be interested in Aldridge or Blake or whomever. If he doesn’t, and no one else steps up, some decisions will have to be made.

Don’t the blazers also have whitesides bird rights?
 
Scalma said:
A lot will depend on Zach. If he shows out at power forward they’re not going to be interested in Aldridge or Blake or whomever. If he doesn’t, and no one else steps up, some decisions will have to be made.

Don’t the blazers also have whitesides bird rights?
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Yes, full bird rights next summer for Whiteside, Baze, and Skal.
 
I cant really see us trading Whiteside before the trade deadline this year as it stands right now, unless he totally bombs then his price will go down in which case keeping him as a back up maybe more beneficial. If he excels which I hope he does ( I think we all do) then he might just be a 1 year rental. Having Nurk and Whiteside on the team next year just does not seem like a problem I would lose sleep over. I think at that time the only problem that would arise is if those two had a problem with each other. Also if Ant works out like we all hope he works out then Having an Ant/Whiteside duo coming off the bench for our second team would be an incredible good problem to have going into the playoffs
 
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