Politics 2020 Field - DNC

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Up to here, you are being somewhat practical and reasonable. It is true that we in Oregon can rely on our fellow citizens to do what's right for the country.

Although of course if we all act selfishly, that compact falls apart.



You care more about punishing the Democratic party for selecting the wrong candidate than you care who is president?

If you don't care who is president, why do you care who is nominated for president? Makes no sense.

barfo

Here's what you don't seem to understand about my position. The Dems (Obama included) have trotted out moderate after moderate. The ACA was a REPUBLICAN plan. Hillary is REPUBLICAN lite. Biden moreso than Her.

They need to learn as BAD as these republicans do that you can't take Black people's votes for granted. White people are just realizing the president can be a racist.

Maybe the Dems would learn if they had to suffer through 8 years of Trump.

It is THEIR failing. Not mine. The Democratic party left me. They won't get me back trotting out Joe Biden.
 
Here's what you don't seem to understand about my position. The Dems (Obama included) have trotted out moderate after moderate. The ACA was a REPUBLICAN plan. Hillary is REPUBLICAN lite. Biden moreso than Her.

The party apparatus bears some blame for moderate candidates, but it's the voters who choose the nominees. The reason moderates keep getting chosen is, at least in part, because lots of voters are moderates.

They need to learn as BAD as these republicans do that you can't take Black people's votes for granted. White people are just realizing the president can be a racist.

Maybe the Dems would learn if they had to suffer through 8 years of Trump.

I'm sorry, but that will not be the lesson learned if Trump is reelected.

The lesson that will be learned is that the country likes right-wing policies and Trumpism, and that future Democratic candidates need to be more centrist and less progressive.

If you don't vote (or vote for a third party) no one is going to try very hard to win your vote the next time. You'll be treated as a non-voter. Instead, the two parties will try to pick off each others voters.

It is THEIR failing. Not mine. The Democratic party left me. They won't get me back trotting out Joe Biden.

That's ok, you don't have to play the game - but don't expect to bend anyone to your will by taking your ball and going home.

American politics is necessarily incremental. Biden (not my choice either, by the way) will be far better than Trump for progressive policies, even though he'd probably be much worse than some of the other Democratic candidates.

A change from Trump to Biden would make a huge difference to millions of people. But you can ignore that and stomp off the field - your teammates will have to keep playing, down a man.

barfo
 
The party apparatus bears some blame for moderate candidates, but it's the voters who choose the nominees. The reason moderates keep getting chosen is, at least in part, because lots of voters are moderates.



I'm sorry, but that will not be the lesson learned if Trump is reelected.

The lesson that will be learned is that the country likes right-wing policies and Trumpism, and that future Democratic candidates need to be more centrist and less progressive.

If you don't vote (or vote for a third party) no one is going to try very hard to win your vote the next time. You'll be treated as a non-voter. Instead, the two parties will try to pick off each others voters.



That's ok, you don't have to play the game - but don't expect to bend anyone to your will by taking your ball and going home.

American politics is necessarily incremental. Biden (not my choice either, by the way) will be far better than Trump for progressive policies, even though he'd probably be much worse than some of the other Democratic candidates.

A change from Trump to Biden would make a huge difference to millions of people. But you can ignore that and stomp off the field - your teammates will have to keep playing, down a man.

barfo
What change would millions of people feel? Biden undermining the First Step Act? He can't let his decades in government be undone that easy. His poor corporate prison buddies probably held off on buying the newest Bugatti after it passed.
 
Here's what you don't seem to understand about my position. The Dems (Obama included) have trotted out moderate after moderate. The ACA was a REPUBLICAN plan. Hillary is REPUBLICAN lite. Biden moreso than Her.

They need to learn as BAD as these republicans do that you can't take Black people's votes for granted. White people are just realizing the president can be a racist.

Maybe the Dems would learn if they had to suffer through 8 years of Trump.

It is THEIR failing. Not mine. The Democratic party left me. They won't get me back trotting out Joe Biden.
Pelosi and the gang would prefer 4 more years of Trump over ANY candidate you would like. Guarandamnteed.

Where do people think guys like Buttigieg come from? He's a safety measure the DNC puts in place. We'll get a gay military veteran version of Biden just in case.

Then we'll throw Beto in for lols and fill the roster with 20 other competing progressives to dilute any support they have.

Then you get Millary. Errr, Biden I mean......

Dance puppets, dance.
 
I'm sorry, but that will not be the lesson learned if Trump is reelected.

The lesson that will be learned is that the country likes right-wing policies and Trumpism, and that future Democratic candidates need to be more centrist and less progressive.

If you don't vote (or vote for a third party) no one is going to try very hard to win your vote the next time. You'll be treated as a non-voter. Instead, the two parties will try to pick off each others voters.

Depends on who the DCCC puts up. You saw what they did to Bernie.

That's ok, you don't have to play the game - but don't expect to bend anyone to your will by taking your ball and going home.

American politics is necessarily incremental. Biden (not my choice either, by the way) will be far better than Trump for progressive policies, even though he'd probably be much worse than some of the other Democratic candidates.

A change from Trump to Biden would make a huge difference to millions of people. But you can ignore that and stomp off the field - your teammates will have to keep playing, down a man.

barfo

Taking my ball and going home?? I'm voting. Just not for the bullshit establishment candidate the Dems want me to swallow.

I live in a place where I can vote on my principles. If I lived in a swing state it might be different.

I will NOT vote for that peice of SHIT who instituted mandatory minimum sentencing and gave us Clarence Thomas for life.

source.gif


I'm DONE just giving the Dems my vote. They must EARN it from now on.
 
Pelosi and the gang would prefer 4 more years of Trump over ANY candidate you would like. Guarandamnteed.

You are WAY smarter than this... Jesus... You should know DAMN well she'd want Elizabeth Warren (I'll vote for her or Bernie) over Trump.

Stop...
 
You are WAY smarter than this... Jesus... You should know DAMN well she'd want Elizabeth Warren (I'll vote for her or Bernie) over Trump.

Stop...
No way. Pelosi is an old white woman millionaire. She isn't anything remotely close to a progressive. Do I have to find the video of her saying something like "you mean all FIVE progressives"

She is less progressive than I am. Just like Hillary. Far right underneath, making dat big money.
 
No way. Pelosi is an old white woman millionaire. She isn't anything remotely close to a progressive. Do I have to find the video of her saying something like "you mean all FIVE progressives"

She is less progressive than I am. Just like Hillary. Far right underneath, making dat big money.

In Trump's voice:

WRONG.

First off, she hates him. Like the majority of america.
2nd, shed MUCH rather have someone she can actually work with. Has nothing to do with how progressive she is (something you're wrong about).
 
Depends on who the DCCC puts up. You saw what they did to Bernie.

Yeah, they forced people to vote for Hillary over Bernie?

I get it that the process wasn't entirely fair (and the people responsible have all been booted as far as I know) but I can't agree that it changed the outcome.
Bernie simply didn't get as many votes, and it wasn't even close.

Taking my ball and going home?? I'm voting. Just not for the bullshit establishment candidate the Dems want me to swallow.

Same thing. Nobody is out there campaigning for the votes of people who voted for, e.g., Jill Stein last time. No one cares what those people think.

I live in a place where I can vote on my principles. If I lived in a swing state it might be different.

To the extent our votes here simply don't matter, you are right. But then if your vote doesn't matter, a protest vote accomplishes nothing.

I will NOT vote for that peice of SHIT who instituted mandatory minimum sentencing and gave us Clarence Thomas for life.

Ok. Biden certainly made some poor decisions along the way. It's good to hold him accountable for those, although I personally think the time to do that is in the primary, not the general.

I'm DONE just giving the Dems my vote. They must EARN it from now on.

Then they'll naturally focus on people that do vote for Democrats. And if that's a more centrist group of people, then you'll have no one to blame but yourself.

barfo
 
Yeah, they forced people to vote for Hillary over Bernie?

I get it that the process wasn't entirely fair (and the people responsible have all been booted as far as I know) but I can't agree that it changed the outcome.
Bernie simply didn't get as many votes, and it wasn't even close.



Same thing. Nobody is out there campaigning for the votes of people who voted for, e.g., Jill Stein last time. No one cares what those people think.



To the extent our votes here simply don't matter, you are right. But then if your vote doesn't matter, a protest vote accomplishes nothing.



Ok. Biden certainly made some poor decisions along the way. It's good to hold him accountable for those, although I personally think the time to do that is in the primary, not the general.



Then they'll naturally focus on people that do vote for Democrats. And if that's a more centrist group of people, then you'll have no one to blame but yourself.

barfo

Not Swayed.

None of this matters B.

I'm NOT voting for him. Plain and simple.
 
Then they'll naturally focus on people that do vote for Democrats. And if that's a more centrist group of people, then you'll have no one to blame but yourself.

Just like Hillary focused on Wisconsin and Michigan? Cool story.

Look bro...

I AM NOT A DEMOCRAT.... I didn't leave them, the party left me.
 
In Trump's voice:

WRONG.

First off, she hates him. Like the majority of america.
2nd, shed MUCH rather have someone she can actually work with. Has nothing to do with how progressive she is (something you're wrong about).
We'll have to agree to disagree. She's polished female Trump. I'm sure she hates him anyway.

They didn't screw Bernie over to let Warren win now.

I hope she somehow pulls it off just so we can see what she actually does in four years. Then we can revisit this convo.

My bet is 99 percent of her platform doesn't even get serious debate.

We'll see.
 
We'll have to agree to disagree. She's polished female Trump. I'm sure she hates him anyway.

They didn't screw Bernie over to let Warren win now.

I hope she somehow pulls it off just so we can see what she actually does in four years. Then we can revisit this convo.

My bet is 99 percent of her platform doesn't even get serious debate.

We'll see.

LOL. Pelosi is nothing like that Hutt. You're completely wrong there.

Regarding EW, watch her win the nomination. You heard it here first. EW is not like Bernie at all. And EW endorsed Clinton.

I think you're pulling randomness outta thin air right now.

Her policies are actively being debated now...

 
Just like Hillary focused on Wisconsin and Michigan? Cool story.

Look bro...

I AM NOT A DEMOCRAT.... I didn't leave them, the party left me.

So you aren't voting the in the primary?

barfo
 
LOL. Pelosi is nothing like that Hutt. You're completely wrong there.

Regarding EW, watch her win the nomination. You heard it here first. EW is not like Bernie at all. And EW endorsed Clinton.

I think you're pulling randomness outta thin air right now.

Her policies are actively being debated now...


I hope you're right. We'll see a clearer choice. Then we'll know more about the country.
 
So you aren't voting the in the primary?

barfo

Sure. I know I need to register Dem to do that. I will do just that, vote for Bernie or EW (vote my conscious).

Then vote my conscious in the General. I'm always going to vote my conscious from this point forward in my life.

Same thing. Nobody is out there campaigning for the votes of people who voted for, e.g., Jill Stein last time. No one cares what those people think.

I voted for Jill Stein. You are debating me and trying to get me to vote for Biden if he wins the primary.... But no one cares what we think??

If you're not campaigning for every vote, I don't want you anyway... :dunno:
 
Sure. I know I need to register Dem to do that. I will do just that, vote for Bernie or EW (vote my conscious).

Then vote my conscious in the General. I'm always going to vote my conscious from this point forward in my life.



I voted for Jill Stein. You are debating me and trying to get me to vote for Biden if he wins the primary.... But no one cares what we think??

If you're not campaigning for every vote, I don't want you anyway... :dunno:

I'm just a guy on a message board. I don't control anything, except to the extent my own vote matters, but I will happily engage in pointless arguments because it amuses me.

What I meant was that candidates who you might like may be discouraged from running, or discouraged from adopting policy positions that you might like, because of the apparent lack of support from people such as yourself. No one is thinking "Man, Jill Stein got a few million votes, I'm gonna adopt her platform".

No democratic strategist thinking about the general is thinking right now "how can we get votes away from Jill Stein?". They are thinking "how can we keep the Clinton voters and also get more votes away from Trump?".

It's nice to think every vote matters and you should go after them all, but you already admitted that isn't true. How you or I vote in Oregon doesn't really matter. So it doesn't matter that my arguments are ineffective against you :)

barfo
 
I'm just a guy on a message board. I don't control anything, except to the extent my own vote matters, but I will happily engage in pointless arguments because it amuses me.

What I meant was that candidates who you might like may be discouraged from running, or discouraged from adopting policy positions that you might like, because of the apparent lack of support from people such as yourself. No one is thinking "Man, Jill Stein got a few million votes, I'm gonna adopt her platform".

No democratic strategist thinking about the general is thinking right now "how can we get votes away from Jill Stein?". They are thinking "how can we keep the Clinton voters and also get more votes away from Trump?".

It's nice to think every vote matters and you should go after them all, but you already admitted that isn't true. How you or I vote in Oregon doesn't really matter. So it doesn't matter that my arguments are ineffective against you :)

barfo
Pointless arguments are a waste of my valuable time and I get very very little out of being amused by an exchange. I'd like to see either an exchange that is productive or a withdrawal from unproductive exchanges although I sometimes get carried away until I come to my senses.
 
Not sure "I work well with segregationalists" is a winning message for Biden.

I know what he's trying for, but he's missing the mark.

barfo
 
He had one job (mayor)...:dunno:

Buttigieg facing scrutiny as family of black man killed by cop plans lawsuit against city

By Brie Stimson | Fox News

Mayor Pete tends to official duties in South Bend, Indiana after an officer shot a man allegedly wielding a knife.

A lawyer for the family of a black man killed by an Indiana police officer says South Bend Mayor Pete Buttigieg hasn’t been “proactive” about officer-involved shootings.

Eric Logan’s family plans a civil rights lawsuit against the city after the 54-year-old man was fatally shot on the street last Sunday while allegedly threatening police with a knife.

The officer’s body camera was switched off at the time, something Buttigieg said he’s "very frustrated" about. The Democrat and 2020 presidential candidate left the campaign trail for several days to “be with the South Bend community,” according to the Washington Post.

Logan family attorney Brian Coffman said in an interview that systemic problems were to blame for the man's death.

"It is overall total acceptance of this behavior by the South Bend Police Department and the city itself," Coffman said.

Members of the community have criticized Buttigieg for speaking to the media before the family and missing a vigil for Logan. The shooting has highlighted the candidate’s distance between black members of his community and - on a larger scale - black voters.

Despite Buttigieg directing the South Bend police chief to remind officers that body cameras must be on during an interaction with civilians, Coffman says his response to the incident has been “reactive” and he should have made sure these types of incidents didn’t happen in the first place.

“I will write a letter to the [Department of Justice] explaining what's happening, explaining why there is not community confidence in the current process,” Buttigieg said at a South Bend rally for Logan on Friday, according to South Bend's WNDU-TV.

Buttigieg skipped an event in South Carolina on Friday but joined seven other candidates at a forum in Miami, speaking about immigration.

The Associated Press contributed to this report.
 
Stealing from the poor while increasing unemployment never gets old for Dems. :beatinto:

Biden vows to repeal Trump tax cuts on 'Day One' if he captures White House
By Vandana Rambaran | Fox News

Former Vice President and current presidential candidate Joe Biden promised Saturday that on "Day One" of a Biden presidency he would repeal President Trump's 2017 tax cuts and close $500 billion on tax loopholes.

Outlining his policy proposals in this visit to the early primary state, Biden said the GOP-backed tax cuts, which have been heavily criticized in some quarters as beneficial only to the rich, have no socially redeeming value. He vowed to "put that money to good use."

Biden promised that, among other things, residual funds from the tax break would be put toward initiatives such as green energy research and development, two-year college tuition grants and a public-option health insurance plan.

Biden continues to lead the polls in a field of some two-dozen Democratic contenders.
 
Stealing from the poor while increasing unemployment never gets old for Dems. :beatinto:

Biden vows to repeal Trump tax cuts on 'Day One' if he captures White House
By Vandana Rambaran | Fox News

Former Vice President and current presidential candidate Joe Biden promised Saturday that on "Day One" of a Biden presidency he would repeal President Trump's 2017 tax cuts and close $500 billion on tax loopholes.

Outlining his policy proposals in this visit to the early primary state, Biden said the GOP-backed tax cuts, which have been heavily criticized in some quarters as beneficial only to the rich, have no socially redeeming value. He vowed to "put that money to good use."

Biden promised that, among other things, residual funds from the tax break would be put toward initiatives such as green energy research and development, two-year college tuition grants and a public-option health insurance plan.

Biden continues to lead the polls in a field of some two-dozen Democratic contenders.
Excellent news.
It's almost a done deal since Biden leads Trump by double digits and will almost assuredly be our next President. Yes, Trump loses the big one to Joe Biden.
I'm sure everything Biden has done that is leading us to ruination, which is everything Trump has done, will be reversed under President Biden. Better get used to it.
 
Forget about the Presidency, Mayor Pete's about to be tarred and feathered in the city he's supposed to be mayoring in.

 
Forget about the Presidency, Mayor Pete's about to be tarred and feathered in the city he's supposed to be mayoring in.


I'm sure if the Republican base can ignore a rape charge against the President, and the victim has kept the dress unlaundered all these years, I'm sure mayor Pete can withstand his little tiny storm compared with the raging hurricane assaulting the President.

Imagine that, our President is a rapist, liar, cheat, con man, idiot who only works for the wealthy and his base doeesn't even care. Now, that's impressive and the mayor is a tiny blip on the radar.
 
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