2021 Blazers Training Camp

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boredinsalem said:
I'm guessing you're really young or really old. Jermaine was here under Dunleavy, you totally skipped the Cheeks era (which I wish I could forget)
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My bad but I was 23 when we won a championship which makes me 67...thanks for the correction...I didn't even venture into Dunleavy or Cheeks because we were talking about the recent playoff drought before Stotts era...Dunleavy should have been included....thanks for catching that...my point was that we've had more playoff success recently under Terry than we had the previous 14 years...I corrected the post....I never liked Mo Cheeks either but I enjoyed the Blazers still back then...
 
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Orion Bailey said:
Do you think we might be able to get Simmons for cj straight up if moreyon holds out long enough and Simmons stock continues to drop? Or do you think other teams would quickly outbid with better offers?
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@illmatic99

no response to that question above. Referring to your post in the other thread….
 
Orion Bailey said:
@illmatic99

no response to that question above. Referring to your post in the other thread….
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i don't think we can get Simmons for CJ straight up as long as Morey thinks Dame is still in the picture.

I think Simmons ends up in Minny/Sac, unfortunately.
 
Watched the game back last night only focusing on the defense and even putting all the "it's only one game" and "it's just preseason" qualifiers aside, I was even less encouraged than after the first watch through.

I understand the defense hasn't been good the last couple years, but if our base ball screen defense is at the level hedging and recovering with a reluctance to switch really anywhere on the floor, I have a hard time seeing how this is all going to work, especially with the starting lineup.

Just puts a lot of pressure on your help positioning and rotations. And unless we're going to play Nance and Roco together at points, I just don't see us being able to put out a unit where there's enough size and off ball feel/instincts for to be effective other than against teams that don't pass it well or spread the floor.

(Norm and Nas are solid enough on the ball, but both are poor off ball defenders imo)

You also saw some of the trickle-down effects of the scheme, particularly in transition. Rotations are going to lead to switches on the weakside so communication getting back on defense is going to be huge. Too often guys were trying to match back up with their original assignment when in those situations you've just got to take the nearest guy especially against a team that plays with the pace of Golden State does.

I also worry about the defensive rebounding against big teams. When you're rotating so much every possession, it puts more pressure on your guards ability to rebound. Only gave up 10 offensive rebounds against Golden State, but they're one of the worst rebounding teams in the league.
 
JDC said:
Watched the game back last night only focusing on the defense and even putting all the "it's only one game" and "it's just preseason" qualifiers aside, I was even less encouraged than after the first watch through.

I understand the defense hasn't been good the last couple years, but if our base ball screen defense is at the level hedging and recovering with a reluctance to switch really anywhere on the floor, I have a hard time seeing how this is all going to work, especially with the starting lineup.

Just puts a lot of pressure on your help positioning and rotations. And unless we're going to play Nance and Roco together at points, I just don't see us being able to put out a unit where there's enough size and off ball feel/instincts for to be effective other than against teams that don't pass it well or spread the floor.

(Norm and Nas are solid enough on the ball, but both are poor off ball defenders imo)

You also saw some of the trickle-down effects of the scheme, particularly in transition. Rotations are going to lead to switches on the weakside so communication getting back on defense is going to be huge. Too often guys were trying to match back up with their original assignment when in those situations you've just got to take the nearest guy especially against a team that plays with the pace of Golden State does.

I also worry about the defensive rebounding against big teams. When you're rotating so much every possession, it puts more pressure on your guards ability to rebound. Only gave up 10 offensive rebounds against Golden State, but they're one of the worst rebounding teams in the league.
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Do you think that Stotts realized this, and this is why he gave up on anything but his much-maligned simple defenses?
ALSO: would trading CJ for Simmons improve matters?
 
Rastapopoulos said:
Do you think that Stotts realized this, and this is why he gave up on anything but his much-maligned simple defenses?
ALSO: would trading CJ for Simmons improve matters?
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Oh for sure. He saw along with the rest of us the shots we were giving up. And I don't care how good your rotations are. You are going to give up open threes, especially corner threes playing any sort of help in recover scheme.

The shot profile didn't improve much going back to the conservative scheme. But, with Nurk getting hurt plus losing any sort of trust he had with Stotts, it didn't matter what we were going to run, we weren't going to run it with the effort and discipline that you need for any scheme to be effective.

Defenses are all about what you're willing to give up, especially in today's NBA. And for nearly all NBA coaches, that's a jumper off the dribble, with some more willing to adjust from there. And we all know what category Terry fell into as far as that goes.

Would Simmons help? Most definitely. He'd immediately be our best on ball defender, and would allow us to get to some very switchable lineups. And that's the key to playoff defense. Being able to switch 1-4 or 5 depending on your personnel.

Because much like what drop defense is trying to encourage, limiting your rotations and forcing teams to play off the dribble as much as possible while protecting the rim is how you have success defensively in the NBA.
 
Rastapopoulos said:
Do you think that Stotts realized this, and this is why he gave up on anything but his much-maligned simple defenses?
ALSO: would trading CJ for Simmons improve matters?
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Very tough question to ask and answer.
Biggest problem is that it's completely valid.
How many think Stotts who has been in the league coaching for decades didn't see the flaws with his rosters and didn't do everything he could to fix those problems?
Stotts is indeed gone.
 
JDC said:
Oh for sure. He saw along with the rest of us the shots we were giving up. And I don't care how good your rotations are. You are going to give up open threes, especially corner threes playing any sort of help in recover scheme.

The shot profile didn't improve much going back to the conservative scheme. But, with Nurk getting hurt plus losing any sort of trust he had with Stotts, it didn't matter what we were going to run, we weren't going to run it with the effort and discipline that you need for any scheme to be effective.

Defenses are all about what you're willing to give up, especially in today's NBA. And for nearly all NBA coaches, that's a jumper off the dribble, with some more willing to adjust from there. And we all know what category Terry fell into as far as that goes.

Would Simmons help? Most definitely. He'd immediately be our best on ball defender, and would allow us to get to some very switchable lineups. And that's the key to playoff defense. Being able to switch 1-4 or 5 depending on your personnel.

Because much like what drop defense is trying to encourage, limiting your rotations and forcing teams to play off the dribble as much as possible while protecting the rim is how you have success defensively in the NBA.
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Yeah man, genius Terry figured out that we should run a scheme that doomed us to a bottom-of-the-league defense two years in a row. One preseason game has already proven him right and our defense is worse now.

Cmon man!
 
BonesJones said:
Yeah man, genius Terry figured out that we should run a scheme that doomed us to a bottom-of-the-league defense two years in a row. One preseason game has already proven him right and our defense is worse now.

Cmon man!
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Still defended well with Nurk.

Personnel has only gotten worse and smaller defensively since 18-19. We are making steps to get back to that level with adding Nance and Zeller though.

But that team was younger and bigger with fewer weak spots in the rotation defensively.

We'll see how it all shakes out, but I'll stay skeptical.

I just can't point to any team that has run this scheme with this type of personnel and had success.

But I hope I'm wrong!
 
JDC said:
Still defended really well with Nurk.

Personnel has only gotten worse and smaller defensively since 18-19. We are making steps to get back to that level with adding Nance and Zeller though.

But that team was younger and bigger with less weak spots in the rotation defensively.

We'll see how it all shakes out but I'll stay skeptical.

I just can't point to any team that has run this scheme with this type of personnel and had success. But I hope I'm wrong.
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Can you point to a team that runs drop scheme with success? Chauncey also stated that it wasn't going be just one scheme. Sounds like he'll try and run the right stuff in the right situations instead of running drop scheme in Steph Curry in game 1 of the WCF. Drop scheme and switching don't need to be worked on in the preseason, it's easy to run.
 
BonesJones said:
Yeah man, genius Terry figured out that we should run a scheme that doomed us to a bottom-of-the-league defense two years in a row. One preseason game has already proven him right and our defense is worse now.

Cmon man!
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Going to be a hot button subject for sure.
So many putting so much pressure on Billups.
So many expect such improvement from Stotts.

Coach gets way too much credit for positives and way too much credit for negatives.
 
Billups even said himself that they’re not going to be where they want to be until very late into the season. It’s going to be hard to break tendencies he said.

Also, wouldn’t read much into a brand new defense vs an established offense like the warriors
 
BonesJones said:
Can you point to a team that runs drop scheme with success? Chauncey also stated that it wasn't going be just one scheme. Sounds like he'll try and run the right stuff in the right situations instead of running drop scheme in Steph Curry in game 1 of the WCF. Drop scheme and switching don't need to be worked on in the preseason, it's easy to run.
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Depends on what you define success as...

Nearly all the top defenses in the regular season ran drop defense to varying levels of aggression as their base pick and roll scheme with their center.

And I never said they were just going to one run one scheme. I'm fully aware that Chauncey plans to adjust when needed.

But if hedge and recover is our base with our 5 man, we will be the only team doing that least as far as what I'm seeing in the preseason.

Drop will always have its place. Even in the playoffs.

Keeping your biggest players near the rim on defense is good!
 
JDC said:
Depends on what you define success as...

Nearly all the top defenses in the regular season ran drop defense to varying levels of aggression as their base pick and roll scheme with their center.

And I never said they were just going to one run one scheme. I'm fully aware that Chauncey plans to adjust when needed.

But if hedge and recover is our base with our 5 man, we will be the only team doing that least as far as what I'm seeing in the preseason.

Drop will always have its place. Even in the playoffs.

Keeping your biggest players near the rim on defense is good!
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Even more so lets see what happens when/if Nurk gets hurt. lets see what happens when Nurk and Zeller are out?
Everything i have seen to this point looks like they are one injury away from being a poor defensive team.
 
JDC said:
Depends on what you define success as...

Nearly all the top defenses in the regular season ran drop defense to varying levels of aggression as their base pick and roll scheme with their center.

And I never said they were just going to one run one scheme. I'm fully aware that Chauncey plans to adjust when needed.

But if hedge and recover is our base with our 5 man, we will be the only team doing that least as far as what I'm seeing in the preseason.

Drop will always have its place. Even in the playoffs.

Keeping your biggest players near the rim on defense is good!
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Letting a ball handler and a big man attack your big (who's on his heels) downhill in a 2v1 a lot of times is bad!
 
Fairly-Hard said:
Even more so lets see what happens when/if Nurk gets hurt. lets see what happens when Nurk and Zeller are out?
Everything i have seen to this point looks like they are one injury away from being a poor defensive team.
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Most teams will struggle if they lose their first and second string centers.
 
BonesJones said:
Letting a ball handler and a big man attack your big (who's on his heels) downhill in a 2v1 a lot of times is bad!
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There's things you can do to execute drop to avoid those situations better.

You can play higher in a drop and bring help from the nail to slow the ball handler so your big can focus more attention on the roll man.

Or if you want your big to be more aggressive with the ball handler, you can do what Thibs did with the Knicks, and have the low man pull over and zone up much like we do when we hedge and recover. Although in this case he's more lane line playing in between rather than fully rotated to the midline. You're going to give up more corner threes up doing this but it's another option.

I've talked about this before but I just find it funny that when you're in a drop it doesn't matter what else happens the floor, if you're big is below the screen your scheme fucking sucks when there are things you can do to execute it better.

Then you see the conversation around hedge and recover and all we see is "wow the big did great there" the rotations were just bad.

It's an absolute joke to me.
 
Fairly-Hard said:
That is my point yes.
Underlying point was Nurk will get hurt most likely and so will Zeller as we have already seen.
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You could take out Nurk and Zellers name, replace them with pretty much any other center in the league, and it would still apply. Bigs get hurt, it comes with the position.
 
Scalma said:
You could take out Nurk and Zellers name, replace them with pretty much any other center in the league, and it would still apply. Bigs get hurt, it comes with the position.
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Well certainly Blazer "Bigs' get hurt yes.
 
JDC said:
There's things you can do to execute drop to avoid those situations better.

You can play higher in a drop and bring help from the nail to slow the ball handler so your big can focus more attention on the roll man.

Or if you want your big to be more aggressive with the ball handler, you can do what Thibs did with the Knicks, and have the low man pull over and zone up much like we do when we hedge and recover. Although in this case he's more lane line playing in between rather than fully rotated to the midline. You're going to give up more corner threes up doing this but it's another option.

I've talked about this before but I just find it funny that when you're in a drop it doesn't matter what else happens the floor, if you're big is below the screen your scheme fucking sucks when there are things you can do to execute it better.

Then you see the conversation around hedge and recover and all we see is "wow the big did great there" the rotations were just bad.

It's an absolute joke to me.
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You're guest solution is to bring help one pass away. We gave up a ton of threes because we overhelped one pass away.

If you think our schemes were good when we've been a bottom 3 defense the last two years, Idk what to tell ya. I'm definitely going to give Chauncey more than one preseason game before being discouraged.
 
I will give Billups sometime to see if his defense schemes going to work. But also where JDC was saying too. But hopefully we will see improvement on that side of the ball tomorrow.
 
Remember what team Anfernee had his breakout game against in his rookie year...

That said, they've drafted two very good guard defenders since then.
 
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