Game Thread 2022-23 Game #1 - BLAZERS @ KINGS - OCTOBER 19, 2022 - WEDNESDAY - 7:00 PM (PDT) ROOT

[MickZagger]

Everything about his play last night bugged me. It looked like it bugged Chauncey too.

That telegraphed outlet pass that was stolen for a Kings bucket had me all worked up. Too many stupid sloppy plays and half assed attempts at taking it to the hoop from him.

Vlade Divac he is not.

 

[julius]

No, we got completely taken. We gave up two players who can impact the game in a big way... both of whom can put up a shit ton more points and numbers in general than Winslow can and we got back a nice glue guy and a dude with some potential. It was a shitty trade. That doesn't mean that Cronin will always make shitty trades and it doesn't mean we didn't get anything good out of it. It just means that we gave up much more talent than we received and you can't do that in this league.

They gave up 1 player who could, but wasn't, and another player who clearly didn't want to be here and was playing like ass.

 

[julius]

I love Dame. I think he's still a good player. I think he deserved the extension. I think what he's done for the franchise is amazing. He's a solid guy.

BUT- going forward, it makes more sense to start a backcourt of Simons & Sharpe.

So I guess that means trading Dame. I hate that. But Simons/Sharpe is a better backcourt than Dame/Simons and it's the future. Might as well start to build chemistry with those guys. If we traded Dame, we could probably still make playoffs. If we don't, maybe we luck into a VW or a Scooter.

I hate this. But it's true. And it's not because Dame shot badly tonight.

Someone save this for the stretch of this season when Damian has a hot stretch and Eric all the sudden forgets he suggested such an asinine thing.

 

[stampedehero]

Trail Blazers vs. Kings - NBA Box Score - October 19, 2022 | ESPN Nice Effort for the first win. Sharpe scored 12.

 

[julius]

And who the hell is going to be sitting on the bench when Gary Payton is available???

I think it'll just be a collective fewer minutes for everyone. Hopefully they can limit Damian and Simons to about 32 minutes each (which from last nights game, gives only 7 minutes). Add to that Hart shouldn't have to play 38 minutes a night either. So there's another 5-8 minutes.

Drew probably sees less and Winslow eats up his minutes (and opens up minutes for Payton).

 

[Fairly-Hard]

I think it'll just be a collective fewer minutes for everyone. Hopefully they can limit Damian and Simons to about 32 minutes each (which from last nights game, gives only 7 minutes)..

Drew probably sees less and Winslow eats up his minutes (and opens up minutes for Payton).

Then there is the inevitable "Injury Report". Depth is never a bad thing.

 

[Pinwheel1]

The players everyone's praising: Hart, Winslow, Grant, Sharpe--acquired by Cronin
The players everyone's excusing/lambasting: Dame, Ant, Nurk, Nas--acquired by Olshey.

I agree with your first part. Hart, Winslow, and Grant (and even Keon to some extent) are enjoyable to watch defend. I do not want to open the " we could have gotten more back" debate because I really could care less at this point about any extra draft picks we could have/should have acquired. I like those 3 we added. (Plus Sharpe)

I also like how Ant responded after his first couple of misses. He looked more aggressive...starting with the missed dunk.

 

[Pinwheel1]

This is the closing line-up I was anticipating for most games. Last night did not change my mind.

 

[TBpup]

This is the closing line-up I was anticipating for most games. Last night did not change my mind.

Offensively, pretty good although some plays the Kings were completely leaving Winslow to trap anyone else.
On defense, it's 3-on-5.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Seemed to me that Dame and Grant are now the worst ball-stoppers, something that is anathema to Chauncey-ball done right.

 

[Pinwheel1]

Offensively, pretty good although some plays the Kings were completely leaving Winslow to trap anyone else.
On defense, it's 3-on-5.

That seems easy to adjust to if that is true. Winslow has good handles for a PF and will attack the basket. Plus he tends to hang out around the basket. Let them leave him alone.

As for 3-on-5 defense...so you are agreeing that it is an improvement over the 1-on-5 defense from previous years?
Bottom line is that unit can outscore a lot of lineups down the stretch when most games are decided. You have 4 good ball handlers and 4 good free-throw shooters. Plus you can always substitute defense for offense in the last minute when needed.

 

[wizenheimer]

At shooting threes maybe. What else?

not even at shooting three's:



Aldo does three things over and over:

1) shit on Dame
2) massively overreact to moments in games
3) troll the forum

 

[Pinwheel1]

Seemed to me that Dame and Grant are now the worst ball-stoppers, something that is anathema to Chauncey-ball done right.

I did not think it was too bad from Dame last night. He just missed a lot of open shots he normally makes.
Grant does run into trouble when he puts the ball on the floor, but for the most part, he did it when there was no other option. None-the-less he is much more valuable as a 3 and D guy on offense. He has a nice quick, high release with his 3-ball.

 

[HailBlazers]

This is the closing line-up I was anticipating for most games. Last night did not change my mind.

 

[wizenheimer]

Seemed to me that Dame and Grant are now the worst ball-stoppers, something that is anathema to Chauncey-ball done right.

how do we know what "chauncey-ball done right" is? He has a .337 winning percentage

Portland had their smoothest offense in the 1st Q; that's when Dame was running the show. He had 5 assists and 2 FGA's. After the Kings started offering more resistance, the Blazer offense broke down to a lot of ISO by just about everybody. If chauncey-ball is going to disintegrate when facing resistance, it's not worth much

 

[Duckhook]

I don't know if this has been said earlier and if it has I apologize, but I was very impressed with the way Sharpe kept his player in front of him on D, even turning them back and forcing them to pass. He moves his feet so well and always seems under control. If he stays healthy, he's going to be amazing for us.

 

[brooklynballer]

Dame literally only had one turnover before he was forcing shit on those three possessions and already had his eight assists. In my opinion this offense would run a lot smoother if Dame was the one bringing the ball up on every play and making sure that he was moving it. I think when Ant and Hart initiate the offense with the objective of still making sure Dame gets a touch, shit gets clunky and we end up initiating the actual play with less time to operate.

Yeah, Dame's shot was off tonight... oh fucking well. Guess who was the more efficient scorer tonight Ant or Dame? You don't have to guess because they both sucked but Dame (20 on 18 shots) didn't suck quite as badly as Ant (22 on 22 shots). I also thought both of them were terrible together on defense like Dame/CJ part II.

It's just one game and we'll see how things go but I thought Dame looked fine initiating the offense besides that little stretch where he tried to force some shit he shouldn't have which happens to everybody sometimes in close games.

I don’t disagree. I guess we’ll find out pretty quickly if this was a one game aberration or the start of a downward trend in Lillard’s play. I certainly hope many of the pundits out there are wrong and he’s just a little rusty but he definitely looked to be struggling to get by his man yesterday (granted, the Kings do have quick guards) and didn’t have the same first step that we’re used to seeing. Happy for the win nonetheless.

 

[illmatic99]

The players everyone's praising: Hart, Winslow, Grant, Sharpe--acquired by Cronin
The players everyone's excusing/lambasting: Dame, Ant, Nurk, Nas--acquired by Olshey.

Everyone? I thought Ant was fantastic last night. Showed real playmaking chops that is what will differentiate him from being called CJ 2.0.

Like... that drive and crosscourt kick to Shaedon for his first shot was a thing of beauty.

 

[wizenheimer]

couldn't find that post so just a screenshot

I've been harping on this since Chauncy said it was going to be a thing. But the idea of playing Dame off the ball is really stupid, IMO. It's almost certainly not going to work. That's what other teams want: Dame without the ball. Why the fuck start out by simply conceding that to the defense?

NOBODY on the roster can initiate offense as well as Dame. Way too often when somebody else is initiating the offense, Dame doesn't get a touch or if he does it's as the shot clock is collapsing. Last night, Portland's smoothest offensive flow happened in the 1st Q when Dame was running the show. After the Kings had ratcheted up their defensive resistance, Portland's offensive devolved to tons of ISO, and it wasn't just Dame pounding the ball and going 0ne-on-one...it was everybody

it's one thing to run Curry off the ball when you have an advanced off-ball screen game and you have passers like Draymond, Durant, Livingston, and Iggy; and you've been working on the scheme for years since Curry was young. It's entirely another thing to run Dame off the ball when you don't have any good passers or guys evolved enough to consistently run an offense; and yo try and implement this bad idea when Dame has developed his game over a decade in the NBA

I just don't think this will work and it's Chauncey trying to force square pegs in round holes. Bad idea

 

[illmatic99]

View attachment 50113

couldn't find that post so just a screenshot

I've been harping on this since Chauncy said it was going to be a thing. But the idea of playing Dame off the ball is really stupid, IMO. It's almost certainly not going to work. That's what other teams want: Dame without the ball. Why the fuck start out by simply conceding that to the defense?

NOBODY on the roster can initiate offense as well as Dame. Way too often when somebody else is initiating the offense, Dame doesn't get a touch or if he does it's as the shot clock is collapsing. Last night, Portland's smoothest offensive flow happened in the 1st Q when Dame was running the show. After the Kings had ratcheted up their defensive resistance, Portland's offensive devolved to tons of ISO, and it wasn't just Dame pounding the ball and going 0ne-on-one...it was everybody

it's one thing to run Curry off the ball when you have an advanced off-ball screen game and you have passers like Draymond, Durant, Livingston, and Iggy; and you've been working on the scheme for years since Curry was young. It's entirely another thing to run Dame off the ball when you don't have any good passers or guys evolved enough to consistently run an offense; and yo try and implement this bad idea when Dame has developed his game over a decade in the NBA

I just don't think this will work and it's Chauncey trying to force square pegs in round holes. Bad idea

I think the idea is to diversify the offense and not be predictable come playoff time. Now is the time to work out what can and can't work. I'm fine with Chauncey exploring things that Stotts never tried in the regular season.

 

[wizenheimer]

Everyone? I thought Ant was fantastic last night. Showed real playmaking chops that is what will differentiate him from being called CJ 2.0.

Like... that drive and crosscourt kick to Shaedon for his first shot was a thing of beauty.

way too early to tell

He played 36 minutes and only had 2 assists compared to 22 shots. His assist rate was only 9.9% but his usage rate was 27%. Josh Hart had a 21.6% assist rate and a 15.8% usage rate

I think Ant may end up better than CJ as a facilitator because he seems to dribble less and attack more. But that's not certain at this stage

 

[PDXFonz]

We didn't play smart and our big guns didn't really step up, but you've got to take the win on the road against what looks to be the best team the Kings have trotted out in years.

Grant, Justice and Hart really stepped up on both ends. They frustrated Sabonis at one end and fouled him out on the other. I thought it was fascinating and I was happy to see Nurk didn't get a sniff of the court when we pulled it out.

For one game, Grant looks like what Dame and the Blazers thought they were getting when they pursued him. He didn't try to play like he was a No. 1 option, but, when the opportunities were there, he PERFORMED like a No. 1 option, getting good shots or getting to the line and doing it in the framework of the offense.

Quoting for this great tidbit. This kings roster looks good. They might have a decent season this year and could be discussed in the fight for the play in games.

This was a legitimate W

 

[wizenheimer]

I think the idea is to diversify the offense and not be predictable come playoff time. Now is the time to work out what can and can't work. I'm fine with Chauncey exploring things that Stotts never tried in the regular season.

for Portland to have a shot at the playoffs they will need a best version of Dame; not some lesser diluted version that gets frozen out of possessions too often

 

[illmatic99]

for Portland to have a shot at the playoffs they will need a best version of Dame; not some lesser diluted version that gets frozen out of possessions too often

that's your opinion.

I, otoh, and fine with trying something new to keep him fresher for and less predictable in the playoffs instead. And if we fail to win some regular season games and end up in the play in? Fine. I think it's a risk worth taking.

Also... "frozen out..." exaggerate much?

 

[PDXFonz]

How many games can Dame go 1-8 from 3 before we start getting concerned?

 

[PtldPlatypus]

for Portland to have a shot at the playoffs they will need a best version of Dame; not some lesser diluted version that gets frozen out of possessions too often

Seemed like the Kings were doing their damnedest to swarm Dame out of possessions. Taking the time in the regular season to figure out how the team can still be successful if/when that happens seems like a good strategy.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

How many games can Dame go 1-8 from 3 before we start getting concerned?

Did you honestly expect a 32-year-old who hadn't played in a regular season game in 9+ months to come out in mid-season form in game 1?

 

[PDXFonz]

Did you honestly expect a 32-year-old who hadn't played in a regular season game in 9+ months to come out in mid-season form in game 1?

Honestly, yeah.

You can call him a 32-year-old who hasn’t played a regular season game in 9+ months.

But he’s also an all-star and one of the best players in the NBA. So yeah, fully. His poor performance last year was chalked up to his abdominal injury which was supposed to be taken care of.

Maybe not with some average NBA player, but this is one of the best 3-pt shooters in the NBA. I expect better than 1-8 almost every night. That’s not far from 10% shooting.

 

[HansenYang]

The players everyone's praising: Hart, Winslow, Grant, Sharpe--acquired by Cronin
The players everyone's excusing/lambasting: Dame, Ant, Nurk, Nas--acquired by Olshey, and re-signed by Cronin.

Fixed this for you.

 

[wizenheimer]

that's your opinion.

as compared to all the immutable facts others are posting?

Also... "frozen out..." exaggerate much?

sure, sometimes. Other times I'm very understated and sublime. And sometimes I drink

Seemed like the Kings were doing their damnedest to swarm Dame out of possessions. Taking the time in the regular season to figure out how the team can still be successful if/when that happens seems like a good strategy.

there is that

on the other hand, according to Chauncey's own words he wants this as a component of the scheme regardless of opposing defenses. It might be in part, a reaction to the way other teams have been so focused on Dame for years. But that focus has been at times pretty successful because the Blazers had nobody else who could consistently run the offense or consistently punish the defense for the dame-centric focus. I sure don't see any player like that on the roster yet

another factor Chauncey mentioned was to relieve the burden on Dame; to try and preserve his energy and stamina. That's a decent theory but then there is the factor that NBA defenses are pretty good at ball denial. If Dame is preserving energy by less facilitation but spending it all just trying to get to the ball there's no net gain...IMO