Game Thread 2022-23 Game #41 - BLAZERS VS CAVALIERS - JANUARY 12, 2023 - THURSDAY - 7:00 PM (PDT) ROOT

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wizenheimer said:
the 3rd play you speak of...Dame WAS guarding his man and that was Garland at the 3 point line. Grant made the decision to go with Allen leaving Dame on Garland, but Grant was late to decide and ceded the open lane into the paint which left Nurk frozen in the worst possible defensive position between Allen and Mobley. If Nurkic was yelling at Dame he was yelling at the wrong guy

what I saw was a Portland defense that seemed confused in both zone and man-to-man. A good defense is decisive and aggressive. Portland's defense(s) is/are passive and slow to respond which is why it's so easy to overload a part of the floor and get 1-on-2 mismatches. The rotations suck and your guy Nurkic is not without sin in this regard

in fact, if Nurkic wanted to yell at the guy responsible for Portland's defensive failures, he should yell at Billups
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Gonna edit that, Billups has Grant defending the other team's lead guard a lot so he is right to be on Garland. Lillard seems to be drifting. I don't know if it's the coach or the players. Seemed obvious Grant needed to keep going with Allen and the earlier play that Simons should have gone with Mobley. (really weird how Simons ends up outside of any Cleveland player). I gotta look at it again. If they are playing zone they both seem way too far out?
 
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Fairly-Hard said:
Dude?
Mobley is 6'-11"
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That's how Billups has been playing it though, putting Grant on the other team's lead guard to try to make up for Simons/Lillard defensive deficiencies which laves one of them on a big unless the other team is really small. Seems like it would be easier to fix the roster.
 
Mr. Robot said:
https://watchreplay.net/cavaliers-vs-blazers-jan-12-2023/18853/

watch this play (just play the video), dame is guarding allen and thats what he shouldve done on that mobley play
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you just said it was a zone defense. If that's true, then Grant should have 'handed off' Garland to Dame since Dame was close to the 3 point line and in good position for Garland, AND, the Cavs were 'heavy' to that side of the floor. A feature of any defense, whether it's zone of man, is, when possible, to hand off guards to guards and bigs to bigs. Mobley flashed across the key at a rather steep angle and actually brushed Nurkic. With Dame's back turned while involved in the point of attack, and Mobley being close to 15 feet away from Dame, it's hard for me to see a point in time where Dame's responsibility shifted from Garland/Allen to Mobley
 
wizenheimer said:
you just said it was a zone defense. If that's true, then Grant should have 'handed off' Garland to Dame since Dame was close to the 3 point line and in good position for Garland, AND, the Cavs were 'heavy' to that side of the floor. A feature of any defense, whether it's zone of man, is, when possible, to hand off guards to guards and bigs to bigs. Mobley flashed across the key at a rather steep angle and actually brushed Nurkic. With Dame's back turned while involved in the point of attack, and Mobley being close to 15 feet away from Dame, it's hard for me to see a point in time where Dame's responsibility shifted from Garland/Allen to Mobley
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well, someone has to be responsible for leaving the man wide open, would you agree
 
@wizenheimer

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a.png

clearly, grant & dame had a lot of time to switch, but obviously it was a designed play, so grant was supposed to guard a guard
 
Mr. Robot said:
@wizenheimer

b.png
a.png

clearly, grant & dame had a lot of time to switch, but obviously it was a designed play, so grant was supposed to guard a guard
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Looks like they are guarding zone as much as man while reacting to where the ball is

I guess I'm not sure what you're trying to say. What I see was there were two Cavs AND the ball just inside the 3 point line on Dame's side of the floor. In that case, why would it be Dame's responsibility to abandon Grant to two Cavs, and the ball, and rotate all the way to the baseline and get in front of Mobley? Especially when Nurkic wasn't rotating out of the paint and relieving either Grant or Dame at the point of attack

I get you're a big Nurkic fan, but just because he pointed his finger at somebody doesn't mean that he had the play call correct
 
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I’m just gonna add it was a terrible run of plays that should have never happened.
I just have a hard time blaming any player for the collapse that none of them were in position to defend.
 
wizenheimer said:
Looks like they are guarding zone as much as man while reacting to where the ball is

I guess I'm not sure what you're trying to say. What I see was there were two Cavs AND the ball just inside the 3 point line on Dame's side of the floor. In that case, why would it be Dame's responsibility to abandon Grant to two Cavs, and the ball, and rotate all the way to the baseline and get in front of Mobley? Especially when Nurkic wasn't rotating out of the paint and relieving either Grant or Dame at the point of attack

I get you're a big Nurkic fan, but just because he pointed his finger at somebody doesn't mean that he had the play call correct
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id like to know what you believe should have happened

if you say dame did right to cover potential drive by garland, what about grant, was he supposed to run after allen in which case nurk shouldve guard mobley who would probably stretch the floor trying to get nurk out of the paint or cover mobley (but hes far away, probably wouldnt be able to get there in time)... someone messed up, mobley was open for an alley-oop

according to me, grant, dame & ant all messed up that possession... grant shouldve stayed with garland, isntead of going after allen, ant shouldnt have helped on allen and dame shouldve cover mobley
 
Mr. Robot said:
according to me, grant, dame & ant all messed up that possession... grant shouldve stayed with garland, isntead of going after allen, ant shouldnt have helped on allen and dame shouldve cover mobley
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when exactly was Dame supposed to rotate to Mobley? I'm curious. And, what is the trigger for that rotation?

I already said the defense was fucked up, but It sure wasn't all on Dame what happened on that play. Something else too: we saw 4 dunks in that video, 2 by Mobley and 2 by Allen and Nurkic was within 7 feet of all those dunks. Is Nurk blameless for all 4 dunks? What is the role of a rim protector?
 
wizenheimer said:
when exactly was Dame supposed to rotate to Mobley? I'm curious. And, what is the trigger for that rotation?

I already said the defense was fucked up, but It sure wasn't all on Dame what happened on that play. Something else too: we saw 4 dunks in that video, 2 by Mobley and 2 by Allen and Nurkic was within 7 feet of all those dunks. Is Nurk blameless for all 4 dunks? What is the role of a rim protector?
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yes, nurk is blameless, cause he was guarding guys with the ball and if he guarded guys who finished the plays, that would leave a lot of space to ball handlers to attack the rim and if they did that, nurk would try to protect the rim, which means he would leave his man open under the rim... come on man, weve seen this million times, if the ball handler is intelligent, he wont attack the rim, but will pass the ball to an open man and nurk cant do nothing about it

dame was supposed to rotate the moment mobley was left alone, he had no awareness of what was going on, which he should have, nurk pointed finger on mobley, which was message to dame to go there, but dame didnt see it and theres possiblity that nurk didnt actually say that to dame or maybe he did, but dame ignored it

like ive already said, grant, ant & dame all fucked up, grant had garland covered (if he tried to shoot the ball or drive by) and there was no need for dame to go there, there was also no need for grant to go after allen and there was no need for ant to help on allen, they shouldve let nurk handle allen and stay with their guys, garland & mitchell
 
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Mobley and Allen should have been guarded by Grant and Nurk with Dame and Simons on front court players.
 
wizenheimer said:
ok, 4 dunks while Nurkic was within 10' of the rim and it was always somebody else at fault...I see
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thats exactly what someone who dont know bball would say: opponents bigs are dunking, our center is doing nothing, its his fault

context exists for a reason and i already explained why nurk is not at fault for either of those dunks, but id like to hear why you think nurk is at fault, cause you clearly think he is
 
Mr. Robot said:
thats exactly what someone who dont know bball would say: opponents bigs are dunking, our center is doing nothing, its his fault

context exists for a reason and i already explained why nurk is not at fault for either of those dunks, but id like to hear why you think nurk is at fault, cause you clearly think he is
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I didn't say Nurkic was at fault. I said there were good reasons why Dame was not the one who blew the defense on that one Mobley dunk. I guess that looks like me "blaming Nurkic" to you, but maybe that because you're so eager to point fingers at anyone besides Nurkic
 
wizenheimer said:
ok, 4 dunks while Nurkic was within 10' of the rim and it was always somebody else at fault...I see
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with this post you clearly implied that nurk is at fault for those dunks, youre insulting my intelligence

in these situations, hes not at fault, he did what he was supposed to do, others except hart, didnt
 
Mr. Robot said:
with this post you clearly implied that nurk is at fault for those dunks, youre insulting my intelligence

in these situations, hes not at fault, he did what he was supposed to do, others except hart, didnt
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what I was actually implying is that Nurk is part of that defense and sometimes, as the rim protector and guy in the paint, he's going to have to make up for other players missing assignments. And if he doesn't and there are 4 dunks with him less that 10' away, he's got some accountability. He's the last line of defense for the Blazers. That's not an easy job on any team

I was pretty clear right at the beginning of this back and forth that I blamed the coaching for the passive defense and rotational confusion. I wasn't singling out anybody but the coaching...before you decided to blame Dame

We have a fundamental disagreement about who was responsible for Mobley on that play. You might need to watch the video again...from the time that Mobley crosses out of the key (15 feet behind Dame's back) till when he dunks the ball, a grand total of 2 seconds runs off the game clock. Not only that, Mobley only moves about 5 feet outside of the paint. He's spends more time in the paint than the very quick circle outside of the paint and he never get within 15 feet of the sideline If he would have went to the sideline aroung the 3 point line, then yeah, Dame might have been responsible for the rotation, but that didn't happen

look at this screenshot:

upload_2023-1-14_21-55-27.png

that's about as far as Mobley got out of the paint after crossing. If you're trying to blame somebody for the Mobley dunk, it would be Grant 1st, Nurkic 2nd, and Dame 3rd; or maybe Dame 4th if you assume Ant should have rotated off Mitchell to stop Allen (which I don't). That you continue to maintain that Dame should have rotated to Mobley when Nurkic is 5 feet from Mobley doesn't make any sense to me
 
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