Game Thread 2022-23 Game #8 BLAZERS @ SUNS - NOVEMBER 4, 2022 - FRIDAY - 7:00 PM (PDT) ROOT (3 Viewers)

[wizenheimer]

Sorry, but I have to play devil's advocate here.

Nance has been playing well and making a good contribution in NO. Would you want him back? I put Winslow in the same boat. He can contribute when healthy...but history says you can't rely on him. I applaud him for helping the team tonight, but until he proves he can do it for an entire season I am not changing my mind about him. To be clear, I want him to succeed, just as I wanted Nance to succeed.

doesn't matter

moving Nance was necessary in that trade because without his salary included in the outgoing, the Blazers could not have created the TPE required to take Grant. So, again, what the trade essentially did was trade CJ + Nance for Hart + Grant + 2026 second round pick swap + 2027 second, at the same time it was very likely essential (along with the LAC trade) for putting Portland in a position to draft Sharpe instead of somebody like Jeremy Sochan or Johnny Davis. And the reality is sometimes you have to trade decent players to get back decent players who might fit much better

for chrissakes....I know that myself and many others here pushed back against the incessant wailing and doom & gloom consistently coming from the same others since the trade deadline up until the end of preseason 3 weeks ago. Pointing out why those trades weren't as bad as the critics were claiming; explaining that it was a false narrative to try and isolate each move in a vacuum instead of looking at the trade deadline and off-season as a single process with many moving parts.

How it was necessary to actually see how the 'new' team performed and how the parts fit together while also realizing that the process is very likely incomplete

we've gained just a little perspective on the team now; seen how it has performed and how the parts fit together. Speaking for myself, this team is much more entertaining that any of the teams Olshey built over a decade and it only took Cronin 9 months . Yet, just before the season started, I saw 3 or 4 posters here essentially say they'd rather have the 'upside' of CJ-Powell-Nance than Grant-Hart-Sharpe-Winslow-Keon, and presumably Olshey instead of Cronin (which would have been the only way to keep last years's team together). Strangely enough, some of those posters are pretty quiet right now.

I give blazerkor credit. He has stepped away from a hard-line negative view of the trade deadline and Cronin's moves then, and is allowing for the possibility that just maybe, Cronin might have a plan worth credit. The returns are way early, obviously, but I'm having a hard time watching how this team is performing right now and reconciling it with anybody having nostalgia for CJ-Nance-Powell

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

Both guys really gave a lot of credit to their coach.

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

Obviously the CJ/Larry trade was only good if Cronin knew that the Pistons would trade Grant regardless of if the pick conveyed or became the Bucks 2025 pick.

That would be hilarious if they had actually made that agreement beforehand. But i don't think the price would ever have been that high for Grant. But then, would only a 50% chance of getting it been about the right price?

 

[Jelloman]

doesn't matter

moving Nance was necessary in that trade because without his salary included in the outgoing, the Blazers could not have created the TPE required to take Grant. So, again, what the trade essentially did was trade CJ + Nance for Hart + Grant + 2026 second round pick swap + 2027 second, at the same time it was very likely essential (along with the LAC trade) for putting Portland in a position to draft Sharpe instead of somebody like Jeremy Sochan or Johnny Davis. And the reality is sometimes you have to trade decent players to get back decent players who might fit much better

for chrissakes....I know that myself and many others here pushed back against the incessant wailing and doom & gloom consistently coming from the same others since the trade deadline up until the end of preseason 3 weeks ago. Pointing out why those trades weren't as bad as the critics were claiming; explaining that it was a false narrative to try and isolate each move in a vacuum instead of looking at the trade deadline and off-season as a single process with many moving parts.

How it was necessary to actually see how the 'new' team performed and how the parts fit together while also realizing that the process is very likely incomplete

we've gained just a little perspective on the team now; seen how it has performed and how the parts fit together. Speaking for myself, this team is much more entertaining that any of the teams Olshey built over a decade and it only took Cronin 9 months . Yet, just before the season started, I saw 3 or 4 posters here essentially say they'd rather have the 'upside' of CJ-Powell-Nance than Grant-Hart-Sharpe-Winslow-Keon, and presumably Olshey instead of Cronin (which would have been the only way to keep last years's team together). Strangely enough, some of those posters are pretty quiet right now.

I give blazerkor credit. He has stepped away from a hard-line negative view of the trade deadline and Cronin's moves then, and is allowing for the possibility that just maybe, Cronin might have a plan worth credit. The returns are way early, obviously, but I'm having a hard time watching how this team is performing right now and reconciling it with anybody having nostalgia for CJ-Nance-Powell

Cronin got the front row seats to Neal's shit show seeing what doesn't work for 9 years, I am sure that helped him know what he needs to do or what players he need to put around Dame. That's so.e great blueprint of what not to do.

Neal should have learn from his own mistakes and pivot with players and coach. But its much easier to learn from someone else's mistake than your own. Cronin did a good job with the team with the assist from Neal's mistakes from the last 9 years.

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

Good question, and I don't have a simple answer. The early results on the CJ deal look good. If it continues this way, I will cheerfully admit I was wrong. RoCo just needed to go. I am still not sold on the Powell situation. He was a productive player in Toronto, we gave up a promising young player in Trent for him, we gave him an extension, then we shipped him out for Winslow ( already mentioned) and Keon (who I am not impressed with). I still think he was dealt for financial reasons and that any on-court benefits have been a happy accident.

Ignoring the money for the moment, would you rather have Trent?

Well, now you're talking an Olshy trade and yes that was a bad trade Trent for Powell.

 

[SIeepwalker]

L2M says Grant travelled. Gather + 3 steps.
Funny that this happened to the Suns after their L2M saying Booker travelled on his game winner.

Fwiw, The Lakers game L2M said that Lebron travelled on his game tying shot right before Grant's winning drive, so NBA refs have been terrible at calling travelling down the stretch to begin the season...

 

[illmatic99]

L2M says Grant travelled. Gather + 3 steps.
Funny that this happened to the Suns after their L2M saying Booker travelled on his game winner.

Fwiw, The Lakers game L2M said that Lebron travelled on his game tying shot right before Grant's winning drive, so NBA refs have been terrible at calling travelling down the stretch to begin the season...

also said Bridges did NOT travel on the play before

 

[bobf]

Watched that last shot a few more times. Yes that last second seemed to go a very long time.

Clock appeared to start late but not sure by how much. The ball is out of his hands with a bit over 0.2 so there is some leeway on the late start.

I don’t think he travelled though. He was gaining control with only his right hand for most of the backing-up steps and once he had both hands on the ball he didn’t take more than two steps.

My understanding is that going from that one hand to two hands is all “gather” and when it’s in two hands the step counting begins.

 

[inconceivable]

just fun

Who is on Dame's shirt?

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

Dame the GM >>>> Lebron the GM.

If you believe Dame wanted Chauncey and Grant, which all signs indicate is true. Imagine Dame the ACTUAL GM maybe after he retires. I hope he stays part of the Organization or buys the team. I'm pretty sure Dame wanted Sharpe and Ant as well if memory serves.

Dame also supposedly wanted Meyers Leonard and thought he’d be good.

 

[tlongII]

Who is on Dame's shirt?

I was wondering the same thing. Alisha Keys maybe?

 

[Idog1976]

Good question, and I don't have a simple answer. The early results on the CJ deal look good. If it continues this way, I will cheerfully admit I was wrong. RoCo just needed to go. I am still not sold on the Powell situation. He was a productive player in Toronto, we gave up a promising young player in Trent for him, we gave him an extension, then we shipped him out for Winslow ( already mentioned) and Keon (who I am not impressed with). I still think he was dealt for financial reasons and that any on-court benefits have been a happy accident.

Ignoring the money for the moment, would you rather have Trent?

Yeah but that’s silly “would you rather have Trent”. That was an Olshey move and if we are playing time machine might as well take Giannis over CJ which I wanted at the time (see BE for proof). That’s nothing to do with Cronin’s trade and is a sunk cost fallacy. The Trent ship had sailed we need to look at salary, talent and chemistry to figure out if Cronin’s trade was a good one. To me, the CJ one is unequivocally good. At this point seeing ye way Winslow is playing and how Keon is coming along, the salary implications of that trade (GPII was obtained with that salary m) and chemistry I think even the LAC trade seems shockingly good. It seemed outright fleecing at the time by LAC but I’m coming around on it being a low-key genius move by Cronin.

 

[Idog1976]

Dame also supposedly wanted Meyers Leonard and thought he’d be good.

He’s not perfect but Sharpe, Ant, Grant, and Billups all fantastic moves. Compare to most of GM LeBron’s moves.

 

[oldmangrouch]

Yeah but that’s silly “would you rather have Trent”. That was an Olshey move and if we are playing time machine might as well take Giannis over CJ which I wanted at the time (see BE for proof). That’s nothing to do with Cronin’s trade and is a sunk cost fallacy. The Trent ship had sailed we need to look at salary, talent and chemistry to figure out if Cronin’s trade was a good one. To me, the CJ one is unequivocally good. At this point seeing ye way Winslow is playing and how Keon is coming along, the salary implications of that trade (GPII was obtained with that salary m) and chemistry I think even the LAC trade seems shockingly good. It seemed outright fleecing at the time by LAC but I’m coming around on it being a low-key genius move by Cronin.

Another subject declared off-limits. Is there a list somewhere?

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

He’s not perfect but Sharpe, Ant, Grant, and Billups all fantastic moves. Compare to most of GM LeBron’s moves.

I’m not hating. Just gotta keep it real, FAMS!

 

[Driew]

Ive been calling him our next Jerome kersey, but he may be better.

He's always been a good player but just can never stay healthy unfortunately.

 

[blazerfan11]

NBA says Incorrect Non Call on Jerami Grant traveling.
https://official.nba.com/l2m/L2MReport.html?gameId=0022200130

 

[DDolla]

The Suns are probably mad at us

NBA says Incorrect Non Call on Jerami Grant traveling.
https://official.nba.com/l2m/L2MReport.html?gameId=0022200130
View attachment 50755

sometimes it’s good to be on the other side. Remember the non goaltending call by Gobert on Dame?

 

[blazerfan11]

I would really say that what you mean is that Chauncey is the truth and Cronin knows how to feed him what he needs to succeed.

So you're saying any boob could do what Cronin is doing.

The Suns are probably mad at us

sometimes it’s good to be on the other side. Remember the non goaltending call by Gobert on Dame?

I remember these ones. Two incorrect non-calls and one incorrect call.

 

[Tince]

Good question, and I don't have a simple answer. The early results on the CJ deal look good. If it continues this way, I will cheerfully admit I was wrong. RoCo just needed to go. I am still not sold on the Powell situation. He was a productive player in Toronto, we gave up a promising young player in Trent for him, we gave him an extension, then we shipped him out for Winslow ( already mentioned) and Keon (who I am not impressed with). I still think he was dealt for financial reasons and that any on-court benefits have been a happy accident.

Ignoring the money for the moment, would you rather have Trent?

That's a great question. Trent would seemingly do well in this system. I'd lean Trent is a better asset overal, but not near a versatile as Winslow. Given that Winslow is giving us minutes at the 5 at times, I'd give the slight lean to him. Trent over Keon though.

I want to be clear, I don't think RoCo/Powell/Trent are garbage.

 

[Haakzilla]

 

[theprunetang]

Who is on Dame's shirt?

Looks like Sade to me.

 

[wizenheimer]

yikes!....doesn't look like Simons is walking well in that video

 

[MickZagger]

yikes!....doesn't look like Simons is walking well in that video

He might have a boot on his foot. These days a boot doesn’t mean anything serious either.