Game Thread 2023-24 Game #25 - BLAZERS VS WARRIORS - DECEMBER 17, 2023 - SUNDAY - 6:00 PM PST - ROOT

[crandc]

All I see is team regressing. Can they beat anyone?

 

[blazerfan11]

Did anyone see the ball do anything other than bounce off of Curry's left leg with 9.7 seconds in the game?

I can't see how the referee gave the ball to Golden State. The ball was heading into the court when Grant tapped it, then changed direction when it hit Curry's leg and went out of bounds.

Of course the Blazers didn't have their challenge to use.

Isn't that something the referees can review themselves?

 

[Whyachi]

Did anyone see the ball do anything other than bounce off of Curry's left leg with 9.7 seconds in the game?

I can't see how the referee gave the ball to Golden State. The ball was heading into the court when Grant tapped it, then changed direction when it hit Curry's leg and went out of bounds.

Of course the Blazers didn't have their challenge to use.

Isn't that something the referees can review themselves?

My interpretation was Grant was standing out of bounds and tapped the ball while Curry was falling down. The Blazers replay crew showed a terrible baseline angle, and a zoom in shot of Curry doing a faceplant. If they had gone super slow-mo with a better view, I'm pretty sure we'd see the refs got it right. But we can still boo them. Those dirty rotten officials hate the Blazers.

 

[Whyachi]

All I see is team regressing. Can they beat anyone?

Portland has B2B games against San Antonio.
Win streak !!

 

[robson]

Luka is Luka.

The 2nd and 3rd players are being touted as having breakout, All-NBA type seasons.

And then there’s Anfernee Simons…

I like his skills a lot, but I am still not sure about his fit on this new team. This I've seen before: Luka, Halliburton and Maxie are in good teams and Ant is in a bad one. That makes a difference. So, him avg 30 this season is not as important as touches for other young stars.
Again, it looks like Lillard's path and I'm sceptical.

 

[blazerfan11]

My interpretation was Grant was standing out of bounds and tapped the ball while Curry was falling down. The Blazers replay crew showed a terrible baseline angle, and a zoom in shot of Curry doing a faceplant. If they had gone super slow-mo with a better view, I'm pretty sure we'd see the refs got it right. But we can still boo them. Those dirty rotten officials hate the Blazers.

I don't think the refs got it right. Grant tapped the ball before going out of bounds and didn't touch the ball again.
I also think Curry could have been called for a foul when he threw his right leg out unnaturally into Grant's left foot to try to prevent him from getting his hand on the ball.






Grant is still not out of bounds in this shot (below). The blur seen out of bounds in the screenshot is his right foot in the air.
He doesn't touch the ball again. Grants right foot doesn't touch the floor out of bounds until it is well ahead of his body.
Curry throws his right leg into Grant's left leg.
Watching it in slow motion, it looks like a reflexive attempt by Curry to trip Grant at the moment Grant touched the ball.
Unless tripping is legal in the NBA, this should have been free throws for the Trail Blazers.
At the very least, it should have been Trail Blazer ball behind by 1 point with 9.7 seconds on the game clock.

 

[stampedehero]

Warriors 118-114 Trail Blazers (Dec 17, 2023) Box Score - ESPN

 

[kjironman1]

but did communicate that with his team, so when Ayton threw the quick outlet, that prevented us from advancing the ball.

Billups said he subbed Ayton in to get a rebound, so he doesn't get the excuse that he didn't think there was a chance Curry would miss the FT

So I'm not sure but i would think Deandre Ayton would have been aware of the situation and would have been expecting either a make which would have put him inbounding the ball from the sidelines where he would have been able to call a TO or a rebound. The miss by Curry was unexpected I'll give him that. I was sitting there expecting a made FT and being down by 3.
My problem comes with a veteran player who is in his 6th NBA season. Whom has played 324 NBA games and 45 playoff games, Has nearly 10,000 minutes played and over 1000 minutes in playoff games doesn't have the wherewithal to be in tune with his coach about what is expected when he gets the rebound he was put in the game to get.
This might have been past coaches problems with Ayton. I've seen this with other players that I personally didn't like much. This guy simply does not play smart. Sure Shaedon did what he had to do but there was 6 seconds when that FT shot was taken and the Blazers had a TO. In that instance you call that TO and advance the ball. You set up a play and live with the results.

Okay so you have a young team and they will make mistakes. Correct me if I'm wrong here but on the floor were Ayton, Grant, Brogdon, Simons and Sharpe. There is not one rookie amongst them and fact is that team has plenty of experience.

 

[kjironman1]

Ayton is a low IQ player

This is what I'm thinking. I am not seeing a player that makes smart plays.

 

[Tince]

Because what does that have to do with whether he sucks or not?

I like him as a backup point guard in theory, but he’s taking minutes from Scoot.

Thank you for finally answering a simple question. It didn't have to be that difficult!

 

[Tince]

So I'm not sure but i would think Deandre Ayton would have been aware of the situation and would have been expecting either a make which would have put him inbounding the ball from the sidelines where he would have been able to call a TO or a rebound. The miss by Curry was unexpected I'll give him that. I was sitting there expecting a made FT and being down by 3.
My problem comes with a veteran player who is in his 6th NBA season. Whom has played 324 NBA games and 45 playoff games, Has nearly 10,000 minutes played and over 1000 minutes in playoff games doesn't have the wherewithal to be in tune with his coach about what is expected when he gets the rebound he was put in the game to get.
This might have been past coaches problems with Ayton. I've seen this with other players that I personally didn't like much. This guy simply does not play smart. Sure Shaedon did what he had to do but there was 6 seconds when that FT shot was taken and the Blazers had a TO. In that instance you call that TO and advance the ball. You set up a play and live with the results.

Okay so you have a young team and they will make mistakes. Correct me if I'm wrong here but on the floor were Ayton, Grant, Brogdon, Simons and Sharpe. There is not one rookie amongst them and fact is that team has plenty of experience.

According to Billups, he brought Ayton in to rebound, but the plan either way was to call timeout, so I don't believe there was ever a plan for Ayton to inbound.

Like you said, the Curry miss was a surprise, no doubt. I'm curious if Billups had instructed Ayton and the team to call timeout in the chance there was a miss. It appears Brogdon did try to call a timeout, so either Brogdon was doing his own on thing, or Brogdon was aware of what they were to do and Ayton wasn't or Ayton hadn't been told as well. None of the outcomes are great because it either means Billups didn't communicate properly with his team in an important late game decision or Ayton isn't paying attention or doing as he was told. We'll probably never know what was said.

 

[Tince]

I don't think the refs got it right. Grant tapped the ball before going out of bounds and didn't touch the ball again.
I also think Curry could have been called for a foul when he threw his right leg out unnaturally into Grant's left foot to try to prevent him from getting his hand on the ball.

View attachment 60854

View attachment 60856


Grant is still not out of bounds in this shot (below). The blur seen out of bounds in the screenshot is his right foot in the air.
He doesn't touch the ball again. Grants right foot doesn't touch the floor out of bounds until it is well ahead of his body.
Curry throws his right leg into Grant's left leg.
Watching it in slow motion, it looks like a reflexive attempt by Curry to trip Grant at the moment Grant touched the ball.
Unless tripping is legal in the NBA, this should have been free throws for the Trail Blazers.
At the very least, it should have been Trail Blazer ball behind by 1 point with 9.7 seconds on the game clock.

View attachment 60857

Great post! This is what I saw as well.

@Whyachi do you have another shot that shows Grant touching the ball out-of-bounds? I believe you said he clearly touched it with both feet out in another post.

I'll be curious what the 2-minute report says. The report hasn't been posted at this time.

https://official.nba.com/2023-24-nba-officiating-last-two-minute-reports/

 

[Natebishop3]

I think the problem (on defense) has been DeAndre. Ant is playing both ends very hard.

Deandre wasn’t here for half those losses….

 

[Natebishop3]

Thank you for finally answering a simple question. It didn't have to be that difficult!

And you never answered my question about why that had any relevance to the conversation.

 

[kjironman1]

According to Billups, he brought Ayton in to rebound, but the plan either way was to call timeout, so I don't believe there was ever a plan for Ayton to inbound.

Like you said, the Curry miss was a surprise, no doubt. I'm curious if Billups had instructed Ayton and the team to call timeout in the chance there was a miss. It appears Brogdon did try to call a timeout, so either Brogdon was doing his own on thing, or Brogdon was aware of what they were to do and Ayton wasn't or Ayton hadn't been told as well. None of the outcomes are great because it either means Billups didn't communicate properly with his team in an important late game decision or Ayton isn't paying attention or doing as he was told. We'll probably never know what was said.

Yeah. That's why I'm wondering? The players on the court had enough experience to call the TO if that was what was conveyed by the coaching staff? Brogdon, Ayton, Grant, Simons. Those players should know for sure. IMO they are not young players any longer.
I am with you on Sharpe though. Glad he got down there and got a shot off. Tough call on the charge. Malloy is usually a let them play kind of Ref. I looked at it a couple times. Not sure he was completely set. I could have seen that as a block as well.

 

[Natebishop3]

Ayton is what he is. If he was playing anywhere near #1 pick level we wouldn’t have been able to get him. He’s a younger serviceable center. He has his warts. Our offense doesn’t really utilize him very well. He has shown he can play better. If he doesn’t work out, oh well.

 

[illmatic99]

Deandre wasn’t here for half those losses….

True but we were pretty competitive defensively in those games in LA and GS especially.

 

[Natebishop3]

True but we were pretty competitive defensively in those games in LA and GS especially.

It’s a trade off because our interior defense was garbage and our defensive rebounding was terrible. Zubac ate us up.

 

[kjironman1]

If he was playing anywhere near #1 pick level we wouldn’t have been able to get him

I will apologize up front.
This is such a weak take. Demand better. Force this guy to put forth better effort and make him earn his paycheck.
If he checks out then he checks out. Life is tough sometimes. Treating him with kid gloves is just going to delay the inevitable. Time to put the big boy pants on as far as I'm concerned.

 

[illmatic99]

It’s a trade off because our interior defense was garbage and our defensive rebounding was terrible. Zubac ate us up.

Our defensive rebounding has been piss poor all season. Mostly has to do with our PF averaging less than a rebound per quarter while playing nearly 36 mins in a game.

 

[MarinerDNA]

Ayton was awful. There was one play (not called for) where he left the paint and checked Curry, which forced Ant to switch onto Kuminga. They got an easy bucket and Ant looked pretty confused.

 

[wizenheimer]

Our defensive rebounding has been piss poor all season. Mostly has to do with our PF averaging less than a rebound per quarter while playing nearly 36 mins in a game.

that's part of it for sure. Another big part of it is the downgrade in rebounding from Robert Williams to Reath.

Sharpe/Camara/Walker/Brogdon all rebound, for their positions, at least at an average level. The rebounding voids are starting PF and backup C

 

[Natebishop3]

I will apologize up front.
This is such a weak take. Demand better. Force this guy to put forth better effort and make him earn his paycheck.
If he checks out then he checks out. Life is tough sometimes. Treating him with kid gloves is just going to delay the inevitable. Time to put the big boy pants on as far as I'm concerned.

Ok. Fair. But we knew going in that he had issues with consistency. So people raging at him when we knew what we were getting seems a little silly.

That's like buying a car off craiglist and the ad clearly states that CD player doesn't work and sometimes you have to let it warm up in the morning or it will die, and yet the person who bought the car gets furious when the CD player isn't working and the car died.

 

[Tince]

And you never answered my question about why that had any relevance to the conversation.

Because PG play was a topic, I knew exactly where you stood on Ant and Scoot, and I wanted to understand where you stood on Brogdon's game and where he fit in Portland.

Hopefully that's ok.

 

[blazerfan11]

Ayton was awful. There was one play (not called for) where he left the paint and checked Curry, which forced Ant to switch onto Kuminga. They got an easy bucket and Ant looked pretty confused.

Is Ayton the only player who goofed on defense in that game?

 

[Natebishop3]

Because PG play was a topic, I knew exactly where you stood on Ant and Scoot, and I wanted to understand where you stood on Brogdon's game and where he fit in Portland.

Hopefully that's ok.

I think he's a great backup point guard. I think he's an adequate starter if we didn't already have two other point guards. I think he sometimes shoots too much, but that might be Billups telling him to shoot because the rest of the team can't shoot.

I don't think he fits while we have so many guards.

 

[CJ_is_Gone]

Is Ayton the only player who goofed on defense in that game?

No. Obviously not... but that is also a strawman argument.

A lot of the defensive issues last night were a direct result of Ayton switching out on guards when he didn't need to.

 

[illmatic99]

No. Obviously not... but that is also a strawman argument.

A lot of the defensive issues last night were a direct result of Ayton switching out on guards when he didn't need to.

I think it was the game plan to trap and blitz Steph. Part of the reason why Curry has such a poor game.

 

[blazerfan11]

No. Obviously not... but that is also a strawman argument.

A lot of the defensive issues last night were a direct result of Ayton switching out on guards when he didn't need to.

How is that a strawman argument?

To only point out one player's deficiencies on defense to me means he was particularly bad compared to his teammates.

 

[kjironman1]

Ok. Fair. But we knew going in that he had issues with consistency. So people raging at him when we knew what we were getting seems a little silly.

That's like buying a car off craiglist and the ad clearly states that CD player doesn't work and sometimes you have to let it warm up in the morning or it will die, and yet the person who bought the car gets furious when the CD player isn't working and the car died.

But he’s the one who preached about the new start new beginning and implied the last team and organization might have held him back.
IMO if he wants to make statements like that he needs to be accountable.