2024 NBA Draft Thread

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The "Way too Early' Draft prognostication

  • Holland

    Votes: 8 16.3%

  • Sarr

    Votes: 41 83.7%

  • Edwards

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    49
Hoopguru said:
I think you are wrong, but we will see soon. If he as bad as you predict he will fall out of the lottery Im sure, hell, maybe go un-drafted..
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how did you arrive at that? Sure wasn't from anything I said

teams always reach in the draft. Clingan drafted in the top-10 of most drafts would be a reach, IMO. Maybe not in this draft.

I'm not saying he is "bad". I'm saying he will have limited utility in the modern NBA. I'd think his best case ceiling would be some version of Gobert, but he will very likely fall short of that standard. Maybe that's enough for some teams; maybe enough for Portland. I hope not unless the Blazers drafting him means they will be trading Ayton. Because the notion that Ayton and Clingan could play effectively together is fucking nuts
 
wizenheimer said:
how did you arrive at that? Sure wasn't from anything I said

teams always reach in the draft. Clingan drafted in the top-10 of most drafts would be a reach, IMO. Maybe not in this draft.

I'm not saying he is "bad". I'm saying he will have limited utility in the modern NBA. I'd think his best case ceiling would be some version of Gobert, but he will very likely fall short of that standard. Maybe that's enough for some teams; maybe enough for Portland. I hope not unless the Blazers drafting him means they will be trading Ayton. Because the notion that Ayton and Clingan could play effectively together is fucking nuts
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Dallas, with two bigs like Ware, just crushed Minny, with 2 bigs like Clingan who are both likely much better than Clingan will ever be. IMO, C's like Clingan are an anachronism in the modern NBA. Sometimes, there might be value in zagging while most others are zigging, but this would be the wrong zag for a 7th pick

You stated above that in your opinion the two bigs Dallas has are much better than Clingan will ever be? I feel he could (just a wild as guess) be a better rim protector and defender than those two. But I could be wrong just like you could be wrong...
I would select a number of players before The Clingon.
 
AmirIcon said:
Interesting tidbits about Matas, Scoot, Dadiet, and Ware from an actual NBA scout.
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thanks for posting that. It's about the first half-hour plus scouting video I've been willing to watch

* he's much higher on Clingan than I am. Granted, a lot of my antipaty to Clingan is based upon how I view the NBA's evolution away from traditional C's. I've said before that if Clingan falls to 7, while I wouldn't be enthusiastic at all about Portland drafting him at 7, I'd be ok with it providing it meant the Blazers were actively shopping Ayton

* Taylor sure seems to share my opinion on Ayton. He made a point of dismissing Ayton's skills a couple of times and suggested the Blazers should try and dump him. If the Blazers do draft Clingan, I think the chances that Ayton will become a malcontent and a locker room disruption are pretty high

* the mock he was using had Portland drafting Knecht & Ware. On paper, that would seem a decent 1st round for Portland

* if I was to go by this person's evaluations, and I wanted Portland to roll the dice on players with the highest ceilings, then at 7 the Blazers would take Salaun; and at 14, they'd take Ware

* Ware vs Clingan: I just think Ware has the potential to be a modern NBA C; similar to Lively, Gafford, Claxton, maybe best case is a Holmgren. Meanwile, Clingan looks more like a Zubac or Poeltl with a best case being Gobert. But Gobert is a 4-time DPOY ; a 7-time all-NBA-Defense first team; and a 4-time all-NBA. So it seems unrealistic to claim Clingan's ceiling is that high
 
Hoopguru said:
Dallas, with two bigs like Ware, just crushed Minny, with 2 bigs like Clingan who are both likely much better than Clingan will ever be. IMO, C's like Clingan are an anachronism in the modern NBA. Sometimes, there might be value in zagging while most others are zigging, but this would be the wrong zag for a 7th pick

You stated above that in your opinion the two bigs Dallas has are much better than Clingan will ever be? I feel he could (just a wild as guess) be a better rim protector and defender than those two. But I could be wrong just like you could be wrong...
I would select a number of players before The Clingon.
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but again, how did you get from that I said Clingan was so bad he could be undrafted?
 
wizenheimer said:
but again, how did you get from that I said Clingan was so bad he could be undrafted?
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wizenheimer said:
but again, how did you get from that I said Clingan was so bad he could be undrafted?
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You didn't say that he would go undrafted, its was me that said "maybe if he not as good as you think he could drop out of the lottery", then I sarcastically said "hell maybe he will go un-drafted.
I interrupted how you fell about him and the conflict with today's game that he wasn't as good as Dallas two bigs....With the draft the fun thing about it, we will all find out just how wrong we were on certain players!
 
wizenheimer said:
but again, how did you get from that I said Clingan was so bad he could be undrafted?
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Wiz, you know Ive always respected and agreed with most your takes on the game, and you could be right on this one as well.
 
Hoopguru said:
Wiz, you know Ive always respected and agreed with most your takes on the game, and you could be right on this one as well.
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just to clarify, I wasn't saying that Lively/Gafford are better than Gobert/KAT; just that they fit a modern NBA roster better and are at minimum, just as impactful. In that playoff series, the big rotations were KAT+Gobert+Reid at 90M in salary vs Gafford + Lively at 17M. That saved 73M allowed for a lot of options elsewhere...like Kyrie

I don't have a big problem with Clingan being a Blazer C. I do have a big problem with Ayton + Timelord + Clingan + Reath all being Blazer C's. That would be over 55M in salary; nearly 40% of the cap. And there's not a mobile C in that quartet
 
NBA Draft Projection

An NBA franchise is buying potential in Ware’s profile. His physical tools are absolute value-risers with his mobility and verticality being the two positives. However, in terms of the intangibles, he has to improve his decision-making and defensive footwork via more reps at the next level.

With Ware not turning 21 until after Eastern in the next NBA season, he’s still young for a sophomore. An NBA team that values age will see this as a positive. Ware’s fearlessness combined with his betting on himself by joining a major program in a big-men-heavy Big Ten shows the confidence he has in himself and his development.

His help defense and potential to be a versatile pick-and-roll defender combined with Ware’s passing and developing jumper could make him a solid starter for years to come. Ware has to improve these areas as a natural result of his young age, which makes it likely he’ll play G League minutes in the first two years of his NBA career.

Based on the pros and cons mentioned in this scouting report, I project Ware to be a lock for the top 20 of the 2024 NBA Draft, with him being able to enter the lottery based on how he’ll perform during team workouts and at the NBA Draft Combine.
 
wizenheimer said:
thanks for posting that. It's about the first half-hour plus scouting video I've been willing to watch
* he's much higher on Clingan than I am. Granted, a lot of my antipaty to Clingan is based upon how I view the NBA's evolution away from traditional C's. I've said before that if Clingan falls to 7, while I wouldn't be enthusiastic at all about Portland drafting him at 7, I'd be ok with it providing it meant the Blazers were actively shopping Ayton
* Taylor sure seems to share my opinion on Ayton. He made a point of dismissing Ayton's skills a couple of times and suggested the Blazers should try and dump him. If the Blazers do draft Clingan, I think the chances that Ayton will become a malcontent and a locker room disruption are pretty high
[…]
* if I was to go by this person's evaluations, and I wanted Portland to roll the dice on players with the highest ceilings, then at 7 the Blazers would take Salaun; and at 14, they'd take Ware
[…]
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Like you, if Clingan is in, IMHO, Ayton should (or must) be out.
Ayton’s skillset is strong … for what he’s good at. Dunking and drawing fouls should be more frequent / His athleticism is in moments with a motor that idles too frequently / His aggression/physicality is too finesse too much of the time.

In contrast, Clingan looks to have a better motor and plays a more physical game at a younger age. He is an active playmaker with the ball … and seems to like it. He has some want to on D even on the perimeter. So I don’t mind Clingan at 7. He seems like a guy who will continue to get his FT% up and become a set shot 3pt guy … like Brook Lopez (whose FT% has always been good to really good for a Big) … though it took him 8 years before shooting 3’s.

Lopez as his ceiling? I can see that.
 
HoopsFanAZ said:
Like you, if Clingan is in, IMHO, Ayton should (or must) be out.
Ayton’s skillset is strong … for what he’s good at. Dunking and drawing fouls should be more frequent / His athleticism is in moments with a motor that idles too frequently / His aggression/physicality is too finesse too much of the time.

In contrast, Clingan looks to have a better motor and plays a more physical game at a younger age. He is an active playmaker with the ball … and seems to like it. He has some want to on D even on the perimeter. So I don’t mind Clingan at 7. He seems like a guy who will continue to get his FT% up and become a set shot 3pt guy … like Brook Lopez (whose FT% has always been good to really good for a Big) … though it took him 8 years before shooting 3’s.

Lopez as his ceiling? I can see that.
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Im not seeing it at all. What has made you think he’s going to be a good 3pt shooter?

He didn’t make them in college and he was a lousy FT shooter, which is a general indicator that he has no shooting touch. Big men make wide open non contested 3’s in warmups and workouts all the time. That doesn’t mean anything to me.

This guy as a prospect and people hyping him have me scratching my head more than any prospect I can think of.

I’d way rather go after Ware at 14, if we choose to take a projected center
 
MickZagger said:
Im not seeing it at all. What has made you think he’s going to be a good 3pt shooter?

He didn’t make them in college and he was a lousy FT shooter, which is a general indicator that he has no shooting touch. Big men make wide open non contested 3’s in warmups and workouts all the time. That doesn’t mean anything to me.

This guy as a prospect and people hyping him have me scratching my head more than any prospect I can think of.

I’d way rather go after Ware at 14, if we choose to take a projected center
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Agreed.
I see his ceiling at the Adams or Poeltl level player.
 
Clingan is way more Meyers Leonard (and he has nowhere near the touch that Meyers had) than Brook Lopez.

This is just getting silly.
 
Clingan is a good help side shot blocker and a good majority of points were ball handlers breaking down the defense and handing it off to him for the easy bucket
 
MickZagger said:
Clingan is way more Meyers Leonard (and he has nowhere near the touch that Meyers had) than Brook Lopez.

This is just getting silly.
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Its took Leonard several years to block shot. Meyers didn't have any natural born talent, Clingan does imo. How good?
 
Its looks possible that Joe will trade Ayton, Grant, Brogdon, Simons & Thy and go young. Question is when will these guys be traded? by deadline next season or what? Joe's not the get in a hurry type of guy and he has said as much! Going to pile up chips for the time being.
 
MickZagger said:
Meyers averaged 2 blocks a game his sophomore year at Illinois.
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he averaged .3 blocks per game his whole career. And the reason he's not playing now for a team is he lacks Natural Born talent and goofy as hell.
 
Hoopguru said:
Its took Leonard several years to block shot. Meyers didn't have any natural born talent, Clingan does imo. How good?
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It was said that Meyers could call out the opponent’s O … but it looked like he had a stutter to his reaction time on D. A half-step (or more) late. When he would actually body up a physical center, he was fine. Engaged. But that was reactive to aggression or knowing he had to. Ayton is more athletic than Meyers was but also seems “too nice” too much of the time.

Indiana catered to Ware’s strengths (I have read and heard plenty of this view) and got more out of him. Unless his name is Jokic, I don’t want my center as the best player. I just want him to do his job with energy and want to.

I’d almost rather the Blazers have Clingan than Ayton even though DA is a 3rd tier center (maybe low 2nd) and Clingan has yet to prove he’s an NBA center.

EDIT: As to comp-ish, Poeltl is a good one for Clingan … not a real stretch, there. Adams is one of my favorite brawlers who moved okay, but not a lot else. 8 years in to his career, Lopez shot 3’s — and from hardly at all to 5 per. His D, too, became a known thing over the years. As I said, Clingan’s ceiling IMHO. Poetl moves decently and Clingan has a ton to learn.
 
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Clingan is nothing like Meyers. What an awful comparison. He's more like Joel Pryzbilla.
 
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HoopsFanAZ said:
It was said that Meyers could call out the opponent’s O … but it looked like he had a stutter to his reaction time on D. A half-step (or more) late. When he would actually body up a physical center, he was fine. Engaged. But that was reactive to aggression or knowing he had to. Ayton is more athletic than Meyers was but also seems “too nice” too much of the time.

Indiana catered to Ware’s strengths (I have read and heard plenty of this view) and got more out of him. Unless his name is Jokic, I don’t want my center as the best player. I just want him to do his job with energy and want to.

I’d almost rather the Blazers have Clingan than Ayton even though DA is a 3rd tier center (maybe low 2nd) and Clingan has yet to prove he’s an NBA center.

EDIT: As to comp-ish, Poeltl is a good one for Clingan … not a real stretch, there. Adams is one of my favorite brawlers who moved okay, but not a lot else. 8 years in to his career, Lopez shot 3’s — and from hardly at all to 5 per. His D, too, became a known thing over the years. As I said, Clingan’s ceiling IMHO. Poetl moves decently and Clingan has a ton to learn.
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The game never came natural to Meyers. He seemed like he was over-thinking/panicing all the time. He was hesitant to even take an open jumper even though he was a good shooter. He could have been a good player with a different brain.
 
Hoopguru said:
Its looks possible that Joe will trade Ayton, Grant, Brogdon, Simons & Thy and go young. Question is when will these guys be traded? by deadline next season or what? Joe's not the get in a hurry type of guy and he has said as much! Going to pile up chips for the time being.
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Ayton is only 25 though. If he trades Grant, Brogdon and Simons we'd be looking at not even reaching the minimum salary.
 
beast crnjo said:
Ayton is only 25 though. If he trades Grant, Brogdon and Simons we'd be looking at not even reaching the minimum salary.
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Obviously Portland is taking players back in trade for salary matching. There are only so many exemptions or teams under the cap to absorb contracts.
 
I don't want to respond to any particular posts here about Myers Leonard. But, I read several stories that he committed to Illinois as a 6'6 shooting guard I believe and reported as a 7'0 shooting guard that they were trying to teach to be a center. I blame Portland for not maximizing his skill set. The kid grew up being a SG. Played the three point line. What did they expect? He was ahead of his time. In this draft he would be the top stretch four akin to Markinnen. Sure, He used the word K_ke playing a stupid video game but the dumbass did not know what the hell it meant as the majority here probably do not. He attended training to learn the true meaning of the word and was forgiven. That has nothing to do with ball, just being young and dumb. Hells bells, Kyrie has some flat earth bullshit in his recent past and nobody is talking about it as Dallas is headed to the finals. That is probably more concerning considering one of the greatest photo's of all time is "The Blue Marble." Says a lot about the school system he attended and Duke University.
 
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